Kids and new boyfriend, really need advice

[Mintychoc1]

I have no idea how to handle this, and I wondered if anyone could share their experiences.

I am a single mum to 2 DSs (age 10 and 7), conceived using donor sperm so no legal father. Up until a few months ago I was happy with just my work, friends and DCs - I have been out for about 5 evenings in the last 10 years - my whole life has revolved around my kids, with work being the only other thing that took up my time.

However I have recently started seeing someone, just over 3 months ago. I really really like him, it's going very well, and I can see a future in it. He comes round after the kids have gone to bed, about 3 evenings a week, so they have no idea he's there and it doesn't affect them at all. However, I thought it would be a good idea to gradually introduce the idea that I now have a boyfriend (I told them about him after about a month), and the kids have met him briefly on a couple of occasions.

DS1 is 10 and is finding it very hard. He is a worrying about everything - will we get married, will we move, will we split up, what if they don't get on - and he is basically really angry and upset with me. It's not helped by the fact that he is in going to secondary school in September, so massive changes ahead - the timing is awful.

Obviously if my kids had a dad that they saw, then this wouldn't be an issue, as I'd have plenty of opportunity to do what I liked when the kids weren't with me. But I have no one else who can look after them apart from grandparents when I'm working (they can't manage any more than that).

I don't know what to do. Should I end it with the new man, even though I really like him? Should I continue to only see him for a few hours in the evenings when the kids are in bed? Should I keep arranging for us to do low-key things all together intermittently?

I try to reassure DS1 that I will always love him and put him first, but he doesn't hear me. I've also tried to explain that there is no way we'll be moving or changing our domestic arrangements, it is very early days etc.

DS2 is younger and generally more chilled, so he says he's not bothered about any of it.

I'm very upset about it, as I don't know what to do, and I don't want to upset my kids.

I work while they're at school, and on the rare occasions I've tried to go out and leave them with a babysitter they've been very unhappy.

Ignore it mintychoc. Honestly, I was rolling my eyes because I knew that the posters reprimanding me just didn't have a clear picture of my life, the sort of cautious person I am and how many years I have been putting my children first. One of the most traumatic things I remember from my childhood is my parents (married, to each other) going away for a two week holiday and leaving me with crusty old fake aunt who was thrown a few bob to mind us. That was a thousand times more traumatic than mummy being right there downstairs with a boyfriend, but married people can do no wrong on these threads.

No, there's nothing wrong with you wanting a social life, or even with you telling your children that you're seeing someone. But remember that they have no experience of you ever having a man in your life. Ever. They have no concept of what it's like for their mum to be in a relationship with anyone but them. For them this is a whole new way of thinking. It's not even the same as children whose parents have separated and get together with someone else, because they've never known a situation where you've been a part of a couple.

They probably do have friends whose parents have separated though, so they know about separation and marriage and divorce and will you stay together, and there are probably step parents in their friends' lives who the friends don't get on with, so their fears are based on third hand experiences iyswim which is probably why they are so pronounced...

The one thing I do stand by though is bringing him into the house when they're in bed. They're old enough to know that something is going on, and chances are they're not always asleep when he comes in. Does he stay the night and leave early in the morning? what would you do if one of them came downstairs while he was there and found you in a compromising position having had no previous experience of this? Or, if he stays, what if one of them is ill in the night?

Any new partner introduced into their home should be brought in with their knowledge, not sneaked in and out while they're asleep in the hope they won't know.

But other than that, just be open with them and tell them that you're entitled to go out with someone, that doesn't mean you're about to bring a daddy into their lives but you don't have to justify hiring a babysitter and going out for the evening.

you seem very ready to judge mine

You described your situation on a public forum and actively canvassed opinions. I'm sorry if you feel 'judged' (whatever you mean by that) but you did ask.

I don't mind being told that I'm doing things wrong, but you seem almost angry with me, yet I don't even know you and I've never done anything to hurt you!

I suppose I do empathise with your kids in this situation, and that does mean my response is partly emotional. It frustrates me, both online and IRL, when I see parents who say 'I would always put my kids first' and then do the exact opposite. You have set out a situation which is very simple:

1. new (very new) relationship
2. kids aren't happy spending time with my boyfriend, but I want us to
3. what to do to resolve this intractable situation??

Answer: back off and give it more time.

....but that's not what you want, so you are still agonising about it.

Some parents seem to put more of their energy into 'how can I justify my behaviour so that "what is best for the kids" is also "coincidentally exactly what suits me best"'. It's like they've forgotten how it feels to be a child, at the mercy of the adults around them.

And ThePigeon, I'm glad you find the idea of adults who are still struggling with the results of their own bad childhood 'laughable'. Some might say that they were ideally placed to offer a perspective to someone about to fuck up another generation, but hey.

Organise something fun for their first few meetings
Like a theme park or days out
Children can feel threatened in their home but once they have gotten used to him it won't be a problem

Good luck, you sound like a decent mum

Well... my children knew my partner existed pretty much from the off.
I'll pass you all some pearls...
It's taken some time for my eldest son to adjust but its worked out. When I say adjust its because I am also the lone carer for my children and its only ever been me in the house.
We are in no rush to move in together we will leave that a few years. I don't really give a toss about opinions such as tigermolls as Minty says you have no idea that I put my children first. But I come a very close second.

Would be interested to know how many other posters were brought up as children of donors and therefore know exactly what the op's children are feeling.

I was on my own with DS from birth, he never knew what an adult partner relationship was, he never met any of my suitors until he was five. We did it very slowly. DP went home at 10.30 when he'd been over for the evening and didn't meet him for a while, then we started doing fun stuff together once a fortnight for a few months. It was fine, DS is not traumatised, in fact he is now totally happy with the situation and I expect, op, that your son will calm down once he sees the situation is a happy addition to his life.

I guess the problem with public forums is that everyone has their own experiences and consequent agenda.
According to what I've read and what I know:-
I can't go out because the DCs hate all babysitters and get upset if I go out.
I can't have boyfriend come round in the evening because DCs know and it's invading their space.
I can't go out all of us together because it's too soon for them to meet/know about him.
I can't see him while the DCs are at school because we both work.

So I guess if I follow the advice on here I can't have a relationship at all. Maybe I'm being selfish, but that seems a bit unfair to me.

So I guess if I follow the advice on here I can't have a relationship at all. Maybe I'm being selfish, but that seems a bit unfair to me

No one has said that. They have said you can't have EXACTLY the relationship you want STRAIGHT AWAY.

And, at the risk of being accused of even more cruelty and judginess, no one has a 'right' to a relationship. I'm not sure that notions of 'fair' really change anything. And some things are unfair. Your kids are going to have to get used to you having a boyfriend, that's probably seems unfair to them. You don't have a father for them with whom they could spend time, giving you adult time to see you boyfriend, which you seem to think is also unfair on you. Your boyfriend's children are also finding it hard to adjust, which may or may not be 'fair'.

If you can prove that you are being treated 'unfairly' will all these feelings just have to go away?

I couldn't agree more with tigermoll and I wish it was said more often on this site and elsewhere in real life actually.

I am a single parent of two by the way and have been for seven years. I've had two relationships in that time and it became clear with both that it would be my children making the huge compromises if they went any further while I floated around in a love sick haze, to be fair I didn't see this till after the relationships ended but I am so very glad I did. So no more serious relationships for me until they're older.

There's a middle ground I think where its good to let your kids know over the years that you date, but only good to involve someone in the family if you really see a permanent future (as far as that is possible). I know, it's painful when something does not work out and the guilt compounds the pain, been there once, never again. I'd only live with someone else if marriage was on the horizon.
Spending years devoted to DC with them being totally used to just yourself, does make it harder in the future when something serious does occur, so I think some exposure to you having another side to your life is a good thing and helps in the future. Unfortunately, as your DC's have had years of no exposure to others, you are at ground zero so need to tread very carefully.
I've been a single mum for 9 years now, dated many more than my DS knows about. I've had glimpses of him wanting to do things with just me and exclude my current BF (been here weekends, for the last 2 years). It doesn't distress him, more an occasional whinge, because my BF does not have the same sense of fun and zest for life that we share in a glass half full way (though he is very lovely in many other ways).
I'm quite certain that his life generally will remain stable enough though, no change in school, no moving out of area until he's left school. We still do many things alone together, which I love as much as he does. Its a special type of relationship you develop over the years you are doing things alone together. I think you start to get each other as close friends do, and you develop a mates kind of relationship as well as being the parent.
It's inevitable, as you have to include your kids in what you do more, that they mature faster and get exposed to more things that adults like to do (otherwise you'd be stuck doing just kids activities all your life). In my case it's gigs and festivals - we love them, my BF not so much, so that will always be 'our time'.
Feel like I've got a reasonable balance at the moment (they were introduced after a few months, but I had known him for about a further 5 months before I even dated him, slow vetting always helps).
Don't rush it, I'd give your idea of doing a few joint things in the month coming up a miss for now. Either take just the kids or get a babysitter and take just your BF. There is no rush to mix things, what would you do about the coming events if your BF was not on the scene? Stick with that for now. Not sure why he has told his own kids yet, give it all a bit more time and meet in the background. You will likely always have to face some upset, but cause it for something that is going to be worth investing in for a long time - you cannot know this yet after 3 months.

It's very early days OP. I have a DS who was conceived whilst in a relationship but I left my ExP before he was born, so he has never known his bio dad. He was 8 when I met my current DH, but it was a year before they were introduced to each other, and we took it very slowly. It took six years before we were married and started living together (I insisted on being married first).

I never introduced any men that I dated to DS before that (and I did date quite a few!). DS has always experienced me having a bit of a social life, and has grown up knowing that I get some 'me' time, so perhaps that made it easier for him to accept DH. I think it's important that all parents have some quality adult social time away from their dc. For me that means getting out for a bit, maybe seeing a good gig or a show - not just having someone come over for sex for a few hours, as I personally wouldn't have felt valued if DH had done that.

Tigermoll, I feel sorry for you that your childhood has left such a deep scar on you My own parents were benignly neglectful but married so there were no critical eyes on their parenting.

My childhood left me unable to have a relationship because I only feel attraction to avoidant types who won't commit. So I'm always single. My children have ''enjoyed'' having me all to them selves but I worry that to them, intimacy will be so bizarre and strange that they won't know how to do it. I didn't/don't. I'm so institutionally single that it can't be a great model for my dc.

I don't feel that I have a right to a relationship, and I've survived without one for 99% of the last 9 years.

However, I do also realise that a relationship would dilute my time far less than say another sibling!

I would like my kids to know that there's no shame to a failed relationship. My parents always made it seem like anything in between being a virgin and getting married was shameful, chaotic, lustful, etc...

I want my kids to have a much more mature understanding than my married parents gave me.

But listen, good luck to you all.

ps, and I know of a few single parents who have nearly made their dc their partner. That is a recipe for raising a child who will have a fear of engulfment and be avoidant in their own relationships later in life.

There are so many ways to wound your child unfortunately but the one that people have their eyes out on sticks to notice is a mother having a relationship.

Families and family dynamics are so complex that it is not this simple.

There are so many ways to wound your child unfortunately but the one that people have their eyes out on sticks to notice is a mother having a relationship

I totally agree with you on the first part, but to be fair, we are discussing the mother having a relationship because that is what the OP has posted about. It's not because we all think it's simply the WORST thing any parent can do, it's because it is the aspect that the OP has canvassed opinions about.

The irony is that in the past I have felt guilty for depriving my kids of growing up watching a "functional" relationship. My own parents divorced when I was 2, and loathed eachother with a powerful intense hatred. That scarred me for sure. My Mum immediately started a relationship with a married man who would visit once a week, and they would disappear upstairs for a few hours. They are still together - he remained married but was widowed 11 years ago. So I grew up with no idea of what a healthy loving relationship should look like, and I'm sure that explains why I ended up single and having to use donor sperm before my fertile years ended.

I have worried that my own DCs will be similarly deprived of seeing a normal couple relationship, and therefore have no role-model to learn from.

Sometimes I feel that all-round good parenting is an impossible goal unless you're fortunate enough to be happily married to the father/mother of your kids.

Yes, fair enough. I hear that.

I feel like I have a greater awareness of these issues having been through psychotherapy for years thanks to my married parents!

and then on this type of thread (more than this thread specifically) I see the prejudices, assumptions and sanctimony rather than balance.

I'm seeing a man atm and he mentioned that he would wait a year before introducing a woman to his dc. I find that unnecessarily heavy weather of something quite normal. I predict our first argument frank exchange of views will be about this. I plan to be truthful with my daughter.

mintychoc completely. My kids have learned about marriage from Malcolm in the Middle :-/

ps, and what you say about your own childhood with no model of a relationship being a part of your decision to go it alone, I am sure you are fine and there are worse decisions to make than to go it alone (!) but I also feel that I need to make a point of showing the dc, hey, relationships! people do this stuff, it's ok, it's not shameful, they can fail and it's still not shameful to have tried. Connecting is human.

Without meaning to my parents left me with a deep sense of shame at needing to connect.

Minty
There is no guaranteed happy ending in anything, take a chance on this guy and if it doesn't work out then at least you have tried

Not sure you will have seen my suggestion with all the negativity from others...
but make the first few meeting fun like days out and theme parks so that the kids don't feel he is invading their personal space and just go for it!

Yummymummy thank you.

I think there is a middle way OP. And I think there is a way to model good relationships all round.

For balance, my parents stayed for far too long in an unhappy marriage, and then drew me and my siblings into their dynamic in a really unfair way, which took me most of my 20s to work through with a good therapist.

Being always single isn't necessarily good modelling either.

I think they heart of your problem is this:

'I work while they're at school, and on the rare occasions I've tried to go out and leave them with a babysitter they've been very unhappy.'

Why is that? You mentioned your parents, are they happy to be with them? But no one else? why not?

I suggest, separate from your relationship you work on changing the above. You need to find someone that can be a regular and constant presence in their lives, that they are happy to spend time with, without you. Invest in finding someone, and give your kids time to get to know them and adjust. Something like a weekly arrangement, where they do school pick up and bedtime on Fridays, or Saturday afternoon through to evening.

I disagree that your kids won't know your boyfriend is there: they will. they do. And that 'behind my back / untruthfulness' could well be at the heart of what is bothering your son. You are not being honest with him, he knows it. That creates uncertainty, and he is worried.

I used to sit at the top of stairs and listen to my parents arguments after I was supposed to be in bed at about that age. I don't think they knew at the time, or now.

I think you need to acknowledge all this to your son, acknowledge that you've made mistakes: apologise. But think and plan for the conversation carefully. he may want guarantees you cannot or will not give (e.g. that you stop seeing your boyfriend). I would advise acknowledging your mistakes and say that you will do things differently:

• no meet ups with your kids and your boyfriend
• no bringing him to the house when your kids are there

If he asks for future promises, tell him you don't know yet, but your are reflecting on how you can make things different.

Then concentrate on finding a babysitter or child minder that can build a relationship with your children and give you some space and adult time.
You need to create and assert your own life and identity beyond your children, but separate from / not predicated on a boyfriend.

Once you are happy your children are settled with their child minder (and only then, wait longer) you can let them know that you are still seeing your boyfriend during some of that time.

then leave it there. Keep it separate until they get comfortable.

If I were you I'd consider some therapy or a life coach for myself, to provide a neutral sounding board to work out the options and see things from every perspective.

Life changes and that can be scary for children: they need your help to learn to cope with that.
This is a change, generated by you, which throws up all sorts of big questions.
And if your kids are unhappy at being left with anyone other than you or your parents, you are not equipping them well for the modern world. You need to broaden their horizons in a safe and stable way.
Once you've done that, you might be surprised what they can and will be happy with.

I'm slightly confused at the idea of waiting a very long time to introduce a new partner to kids. Obviously I see the point that you can then be sure that it's a lasting relationship, and you can know the person very well. But from the kids' point of view it's still new, whether you've known the partner for 5 minutes or 5 years. It would feel strange to tell my kids that they were about to meet someone I'd been in a relationship with for a year. I can hear their questions - "what, a year??? How? when? why didn't you tell us until now?"

So if you go out and they are unhappy with babysitters what do they do? This makes me think this is not particularly because this is a boyfriend this is something that doesn't revolve around them?
This may be a hugely unpopular view but it looks like you e given in, in the past and stopped getting babysitters and so stopped going out could this be a bit of the same?
I do think your ds needs time to adjust he's had 10 years of just you but I don't think you need to put your life on hold either.
Maybe start with revisiting baby sitters. Do you have anyone that could put up with a bit of hard work if he's upset st you going out? Make it short times at first and build up to evenings out. This may help adjust to the idea that mum is not just mum and is a person too before you push the boyfriend bit too much.
There is of course an ideal world scenario that often on here is treated like the only way but in real life it's not always possible. I have done the boyfriend coming round for few hours once dc in bed. I've done the meeting at odd times to be able to have a date. My dc always came first but I'm a person too and I wanted to date.

Goodluck I've tried, I really have. DS1 hated nursery, so I got a nanny instead. I had 2 nannies, both lovely, but DS1 was still in tears each time I left to go to work, and rang me in tears after school. He's ultra-sensitive, always has been. They are happy to be left with my Mum (who moved nearby 3 years ago, and took over from the unsuccessful nannies), but she is old and can only manage childcare while I'm at work. Any more is too much for her. And actually DS1 doesn't like her any more now either, because she's intolerant of his obsession with football! All my friends have kids and demanding jobs themselves, so can't help out.

Yesterday my boyfriend and I took a day of annual leave to spend some time together (during school hours, so no impact on DCs). When I mentioned to DS1 that I'd been out with him that day he was really upset. So secrecy is bad but openness upset him too.