Can anyone explain why my mother did this?

[Smithofheavens]

I'm very low contact with my mother, we communicate only when necessary, it's been like this for 6 months or so.

I'm trying to unpick our relationship and there's something that happened that I don't understand. She was very good with childcare when my children were tiny, and had no problem giving my husband a hand if I went to visit friends for a break. But if I was going to visit a friend to help them (I went to see my best friend when her mum was dying) or to a funeral she would be FURIOUS. Really angry, accuse me of lying, that I'm not really going to funeral etc. It's like I was "allowed" to go away on the piss but not to help anyone else because there's no way that could really be true.

What's that about?

Were your DC children around when she had her rage and booted the hallstand? Do they hear her criticising your DH?

From your posts it seems that anything that expands your world and any activities that require a certain level of functioning on your part (did she take you to any activities when you were young) set her off and that she fears you coming out of the FOG.*

They weren't there when she kicked the hall stand but one was there when we had a huge row. (Or more accurately she ranted and I kept my voice deliberately level.)

That's interesting about taking me to activities. No, she didn't. She was very career minded so that was her focus. As a teen I was very into a particular quite nerdy hobby. It was very family oriented, lots of practice and trips, and I represented my school and county doing it. Without fail I would have to get lifts to events, and with hindsight the other parents were pissed off with them. As a parent now myself, it's exactly the kind of thing that anyone would LOVE their teen to be involved with - I could have been playing them up terribly but I wasn't, I was doing this! There was never the slightest encouragement at all from them. I liked it because it got me away from them and was my "thing".

I think the PPs who have described your mum as a narcissist are spot on. She can only see you as a bit player in her life, not as a three-dimensional human being with good and bad qualities. When you step out of the role she has assigned to you it is potentially damaging to her carefully constructed view of herself and the world around her. No wonder she kicks off.

You ask can anything be done - probably not. The problem here is her, not you and why would she want to change? Her narcissistic view of herself as a selfless, giving woman tirelessly supporting a boozy, irresponsible daughter and other less worthy family members works for her. She will cling to it even in the face of the proof that it is wrong (hence her loss of control when you are doing something positive - she needed to create a phantasy that you were 'up to something' rather than accept the truth).

Narcissists are deeply, profoundly damaged and are generally very unhappy within themselves but knowing that doesn't make them any easier to live with. If you can possibly manage to stay in low level contact, maintaining good boundaries so her behaviour does not impact on you and your family too much that would be great. After all, us non-narcissists can have relationships with people even when they are wrong/mean/faulty, it's called unconditional love. But if her behaviour makes that Impossible then NC might be your last resort.

My theory is that she likes you to be in need of help to validate her role, if you help other people it somehow threatens that.

Be aware that it might be entirely unconscious from her POV.

If you hadn't already mentioned that you had a younger brother who could do no wrong, I was going to ask if you were an only child.

As it is, you've answered it already, and it's instantly clear that you are the family scapegoat and he is the golden child.

It's also apparent to me that your mother has set herself up in the role of rescuer - she gets to tell anyone who will listen that she is "always having to step in and rescue the children while Smith is out bloody drinking again", putting you down and elevating herself at the same time. Playing the martyr role, poor her, look how hard done-by she is, having a drunk for a daughter!

You doing good things for anyone completely goes against her internal picture of you, and, as a narc, she cannot possibly be wrong about you or anything, so how very dare you show personality traits, and do deeds, that are totally foreign to her picture of you! No wonder she gets angry. You're messing with her head!

I'm so sorry that you have a mother like this. I'm equally sorry that your father enables her, makes him as bad as her. I don't know what your relationship with your brother is like, or what his relationship with them is like; but if he's still tight with them and thinks they've done nothing wrong, then it might be better to go LC or even NC with him too.

No, you can't fix this. You didn't do it. SHE did. You can't change her, you can't change her behaviour, you absolutely can't change how she thinks about you. The only thing you can change is how you react to her batshit behaviour - and under the circs, I think you going LC, possibly NC, is probably the best way forward.

youshoukdcancelthecheque do you think I should cut her any slack, if she is completely unaware of her actions?

Thumbwitchabroad that's v interesting. My brother is indeed the Golden Child, with bells on. I have another sibling whom gets a hard time too, but then plays up more and gets away with more than I ever ever did.

I had forgotten/blanked out that about 10 years ago, we had another falling out. It was when Golden Child (who is actually lovely) moved out and my mum lost the plot entirely. Accusing my dad of affairs from 30 years ago, him crying down the phone to me, then her ranting every time she spoke to me about what a grade A bastard he was. They were still very much married and together by the way, just her knocking emotional chunks off him.

She would call me - I had just been posted overseas with work and was stressed already, and every conversation, she would turn around to how much she hated my dad. The venom was awful. I kept saying that even if she felt that was, he's still my DAD and I can't listen to this, it's not fair. She wouldn't/couldn't stop and I had to cut contact with her totally. Then she would write me letter about how she knew she had hurt me by talking about him like that but she couldn't seem to help it and she didn't have anyone else to talk to. I nearly lost my mind. It was like they both expected me to referee and sort it out. I remember thinking "why is this my fucking job?" But it was.

Liinoo that's interesting what you say about her being damaged. She was absolutely 100% the golden child of her family, and when she talks about her father it's always in glowing terms. Yet when I spoke to her many siblings about him, they all said what a horrible violent thug he was. She could never see that, or if she did, excused it.

So, this is what happened next:

After the Flying Monkey visit, when I pointed out how hurt and outraged I was, and how she had never apologised, a couple of days later, she turned up unannounced (I hate that!) and delivered a short speech about how sorry she was for all the hurt and angst she had caused. I listened and asked did she recognise she was wrong to say what she had (terrible awful things about me as a mother and wife, really ghastly.) and she said she was very sorry and missed me and loves me.

Then without my saying anything she got back in the car and drove off.

I rang the "flying monkey" and asked her what he had said to her. He was really off with me and just said that as she had apologised I should forgive and move on. I asked him had she mentioned why she had seen fit to interfere in every bloody aspect of my life and then he dropped a bombshell and said that she had told him that she had to keep an eye on me as I was having an affair! Nothing, nothing could be further from the truth and I could hardly speak I was shaking with rage so much. I told him it was utter poisenous bollocks! He said "well why would she say that then? She says she's seen evidence!" All I could say was that it was terrible nonsense, and she was making this up to make herself look better. And if she had actually thought that at the time of the big row she would have said it when she was ripping in to me about how shit I am in every other aspect! But it's plain that he believes her, at least to some extent.

I was nearly sick with anger but decided to do nothing and sleep on it. Next day I got an email from her saying that she hoped I'd had time to think about her apology and that she couldn't believe how things had gone, and please can we move on.

I replied saying Thankyou, but it appears that you've said I've had an affair, and actually, I'm far happier without having to second guess myself because of her constant interference. And that it was clear that my dad hasn't been in touch because she's poisoned him against me too.

That's where we left it, she hasn't replied until yesterday when she sent a breezy message wanting to know if she can see the kids at the weekend! No reference to anything I've said at all! I haven't replied, I don't know what to do!

Don't reply to the message.

Listen" to Flying Monkeys. Don't react. Then ask if they feel strongly about this. When they agree, point out they reached this conclusion without asking about your needs, so you aren't interested in what they have to say. End conversation.

You need to keep your children well away from your narcissistic mother and her bystander of a husband as well. I would not let him off the hook because he has failed to protect you and your sibling from her excesses of behaviours. He is really her hatchet man here and cannot be at all relied upon. Women like your mother cannot do relationships at all so the men in their lives are often as narcissistic as they are or are long gone.

That means I'm effectively severing the relationship between my kids and their grandmother though and they do love her. My husband thinks they should have some sort of a relationship with her as they have no other grandparents. I was thinking they might see her for a couple of hours - but I'm just amazed that she hasn't addressed what I put in my email! It's like she didn't read it!

She read your e-mail but does not really care what you think at all. Your opinion is really not valid to her.They are unwilling to recognize or sympathize with other people's feelings and needs. They "tune out" when other people want to talk about their own problems. I cannot overemphasise enough their complete and utter lack of empathy here.

Kids love grandparents anyway no matter how rubbish they are. You are the parent here, they rely on your good sense and judgment. Also they are seeing how you react to her and will learn from that example as well.

Your husband's thoughts would be more valid if your mother was herself emotionally healthy. The fact remains however, that she is not. He unlike your good self likely comes from an emotionally healthy family himself where this type of familial dysfunction is unknown, it is very difficult to therefore fully appreciate just how bad this is.

Smith,

Your children need emotionally healthy role models as grandparents, not those who seek to denigrate and disparage their own now scapegoated adult child (your assigned role in your family of origin) at each and every opportunity. Narcissists as well tend to either over value or under value the relationship with the grandchildren, they are seen as their narcissistic supply. In your own family of origin you are still the scapegoat for their own inherent ills, she could well go onto choose a favourite amongst your own children and scapegoat the other. Dysfunctional stuff like this can and does go down the generations. You have been profoundly affected by all this from your parents. You have also been on the receiving end of her narcissistic rage and she is not above sending in the flying monkeys (they should be roundly ignored by you) either to do her bidding.

She was not a good parent to you and narcissists are deplorably bad grandparent figures to their grandchildren. Its painful actually watching a narcissist interact with their grandchild mainly because there is no interaction; its like watching a repeat of a tv show you have always hated.

I've read your whole thread Smith - I have narcissistic parents and recognised so much of what you said. I've just read your update about her 'affair' theory. It is head-spinningly mental, isn't it?! I can feel the anger in your words and its totally understandable that you're furious. The erasing of reality and carrying on like nothing ever happened is classic narcissist behaviour - its extremely upsetting and hurtful.

I think Atilla's advice about how to handle Flying Monkeys is excellent. I also totally agree with her about keeping your mother away from both you and your children. How could your children possibly benefit from having a relationship with someone like this? Not all grandparents fit the stereotype of sweet, loving, fun and indulgent. You may feel that they love her but she's just someone who's always been in their lives. Its very sad that they have no other grandparents but as a parent, you need to make a decision to keep your children safe and that involves keeping them far away from someone who is incapable of having a loving relationship with them.

I'm so sorry you're going through this, I really do feel for you

Why do grandparents get this protected status in children's lives? Cousins are just as closely related, do they get this privileged protection of their relationships with children. I just don't get it. If your DC had a cousin who treated them like your mother does, what then? Would you be worrying about them not having a 'relationship' and to not know them would be detrimental!? No. So cut her out and don't feel bad.

That means I'm effectively severing the relationship between my kids and their grandmother though and they do love her.

How poisonous is this woman? Just how much effect has she had on you?

Right now you are shaking with rage, you can hear it clearly. She has a severely negative effect on you directly and indirectly .... And you can't hide that from your children. You might try to, but it seeps out.

What happens when she starts playing games with them, too? How are you going to protect them? How are you going to teach them to see through the manipulations, and how are you going to protect their self esteem?

This woman is not safe to entrust your children too.

Your husband is mistaken here. far better to have no grandparents at all than seriously toxic ones. It's lonely without (grew up with no grandparents and some pretty awful parents myself) but it's better for kids to have an absence than an active toxic influence in their lives.

Just wanted to say how helpful this thread has been in helping me think about the narcs in my life. Thank you everyone. Really sorry for you OP that you've had to deal with this crap. You don't deserve any of it and neither do your kids. Now you know more about the situation and your DM's yet again showing her true nature I hope that you putting up strong LC or NC boundaries will help you to protect yourselves going forward.