Very low contact with parents and struggling a bit - reassurance please from people in similar situations!

[Lottapianos]

Brief background - narcissistic, engulfing parents who don't do 'independent' or 'different'. Grew up never being allowed to have feelings of my own. Used as marriage counsellor / emotional dumping ground by mother since age 10 / 11. Have struggled with depression and anxiety since forever. Spent 6 years in therapy.

I have been very low contact with my parents for several years now - no phonecalls, text / WhatsApp once or twice a month, see them about once a year (they live in a different country). They never visit me. I very slowly realised through therapy that they were toxic and emotionally harmful. The process of separating and detaching from them emotionally has been excruciating, and I have been deep in grief for the past few years. Every time I see them (not often), I come away feeling drained, scared, depressed and grieving all over again for the relationship I thought I had with them.

I'm coming out the other side of the grief and I have periods where not being in touch with them very much really does feel 'ok'. The situation will never be what I would like it to be, but it honestly does feel ok at times. I remind myself of the awful things they have said and done, remind myself of the psychological effect they have on me, remind myself that there is nothing wrong with wanting to protect and take care of myself. And yet..........

I'm feeling guilty again. Feeling like I 'should' visit them. Like I 'should' be in touch more often. I find myself worrying about them. And then I remind myself that they are adults, in good health, with no financial worries, and they know where I am. I have never not been welcoming when they have visited in the past. So why should I be taking on all of the responsibility etc etc etc

So I'm stuck playing ping pong with myself again! Back and forth between guilt and strength. Its exhausting and I'm tired of thinking about them all the time. Please share any words of strength and wisdom from your own experiences. I know that feelings going up and down is a normal part of this process but I'm really struggling right now

[FrothyBubbles]

Midnight That's so good to hear, it warms my heart to read that others are also trying and succeeding in breaking this oh so damaging cycle.
I see it as the silver lining on a very dark raincloud that still hangs over me, and as you say, is so hard, with many setbacks.

[FrothyBubbles]

Lotta I think a life well lived is the best thing any of us can do. You deserve happiness. There are times when I daydream about a child free life!!

"I know parents like you who are able to treat their children like people rather than extensions of themselves and it's a lovely thing to see."
This is a beautiful and generous comment for you to make. I hope everyone on this thread takes this to heart today.
Thanks for starting this conversation Lotta.

[FrothyBubbles]

Itsallwrong I hear you. No time today to post more. But I hear you, you're not alone.

[FrothyBubbles]

And this…

"Every day is a battle for me"

So true.

[daisytalks]

Thank you so much lotta for posting on this topic. As has previously been mentioned, it is so comforting to know people go through similar with their nightmare parents.
I have had all the same feelings as you ...looking around and seeing friends with their wonderfully close and loving parents - showing an interest in their lives and their grandchildren - I did indeed contemplate sending Xmas and bday cards/pressies to my own children as if from my parents and sisters because I just couldn't bear for my children to feel the way I did. I have tried to shield my children as much as possible tho.
Funnily enough I moved countries a few years ago from the UK to Ireland, thought things would get easier but they got much worse...I felt immense pressure from my husband's family wanting to know constantly why mine never visited etc etc when I tried to explain (stupidly felt I had to) they couldn't/wouldn't understand - I always tried to gloss over but eventually I started getting horrendous anxiety and and had to re evaluate my life and so tired of feeling in the wrong all the time and how I had to start making serious changes ...funnily this period in my life was the best thing that could have happened as I finally started facing things, building up non-existent self esteem and putting in boundaries (thanks to a great counsellor).
Sorry if I've said too much of my own experiences, but thanks again and it feels great just to write all that down!

[Jemmima]

Just marking a place. Don't know how to "watch" thread on my iPhone. Very interesting thread

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

I found it liberating when I started being honest with people in a boring way. Boring? Yes, boring.

When people make small talk like "Do your parents come over to see you often?" I reply in calm non-excited tone: "No, we don't get along. What about you, do you see your parents much?"

If pushed by well meaning friends busybodies about why we don't get along I might say something like "My mum has had mental health issues for as long as I can remember. It damages her relationships. Unfortunately she won't admit she has a problem, never mind get help. It's very sad, I wish it were different. Let's talk about something nicer. Are you going on holiday this year?

See that statement above. It is the absolute truth. Yet, when I first thought it and said those words to someone, it was amazing. The truth is simple and boring.

Also, there is a lot more of it about than you realise. I was astonished when I got my head out of my own arse and actually paid attention to other people's actual lives (instead of obsessing about their possible perception of me) to discover the number of friends and acquaintances who it turns out have problem parents too.

[daisytalks]

Hi itsa I had exactly the same situation ...my parents only met my mother in law once briefly just before I married (I married 26 years ago fgs!) and that was at my mil insistence (because that's what normal families do right?! ...and my own parents were never going to make the effort until it was forced) amazingly mil thought they were lovely people tho I'm sure she was just being kind. I always got on brilliantly with my mil as you sound like you had a great relationship with fil - though it does highlight how utterly useless your own parents and family are.
I remember when I was pregnant with my first child and was petrified to tell my parents - I was 28 and had been married for 3 years (!)but they always made me feel like a disappointing child - it sounds so ridiculous when written down, but I know that my relationship with my own children is so loving and so far removed from what I grew up - I made sure of that!

[RunRabbitRunRabbit]

You can be forgiving and understanding, compassionate and empathetic without taking abuse.

Let's say you know a lovely person with weird unresolvable issues that cause them to pour jelly into your handbag whenever you meet them. You can forgive, understand, be compassionate and empathetic but still take measures to keep your handbag well out of reach and nicely sealed up.

In the same way, you can understand and accept your parents as they are yet still take steps to stop them from doing certain bad things to you.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

itsallwrong,

Re your comment:-

"What has prevented me from ever posting on the stately homes thread is that I'd do anything to have a better relationship with my family. Any tiny crumb of recognition or attention from them is better than none"

This is a notion that some adult children of toxic parents still hold dear but it really does not help the now adult child of same.

Boundaries are necessary and they must be maintained and enforced consistently. I do like RunRabbit's idea analogy of the jelly a great deal.
You would not have tolerated any of that from a friend, family are no different. You are protecting yourself from Bad Things.

What attention do they really give you; its more likely than not to be crumbs of negative attention, backbiting and sniping. Negative attention is not better than no attention at all. (Also children notice it over time also; they notice the disrespect their mother is being shown. Your parents were not good parents to you, why would they be good grandparent figures to your children).

This may all be part of FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) that such people feel when it comes to their own inadequate parents. What needs to be remembered here is that you as an adult do not need their approval any more. You think they feel at all guilty or remorseful for what they have done; not a bit of it. Toxic people never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions.

You are right in an important respect in that your parents are like they are mainly due to their own upbringings; you certainly did not make them that way. Your parents have had their whole lives to make a positive difference when it came to you but they chose instead to repeat the dysfunctional crap that was forced upon them. They chose not to receive the necessary help but to continue in the dysfunction; such toxic crap really does go down the generations. It is indeed to your credit that you have not chosen to make the same mistakes they have, it has stopped with you.

daisytalks - what you wrote earlier has resonated very much so with me. I have had a very similar experience with parents and MIL meeting only once but in my case its both sets who have been found most wanting over the years. They are between the now three of them (FIL died some years back) a true and abject example in how not to behave.

[Lottapianos]

Love the jelly in handbag analogy!

Itsallwrong, letting go of the hope was the thing that hurt the most for me. All the maybes - maybe if I phone them more often, maybe if I visit more often, maybe if I had a baby, maybe if I was just quiet and good and nice - then they would love me and accept me! I slowly realised, through therapy, that nothing would ever be good enough for them. They're just not capable of having a genuinely loving, caring relationship with anyone, not even their own daughter. Maybe least of all their own daughter, because they see me as their creation, so it seems even more unreasonable to them that I don't follow the party line.

My sister is pregnant, this will be the first grandchild. She was worried about telling them because she had to steel herself for their reaction. She couldn't expect them to be happy for her and behave appropriately. In the end, she told them on the phone and they responded with 'oh right' Since then, they seem to have gotten their heads around it a bit more and are being a bit more normal. I'm fascinated to see how they will behave when baby arrives - they will either be ridiculously overinvolved and controlling, or they won't give a fig and won't be involved at all. Its very sad, that she has to protect herself with an emotional suit of armour at what should be a happy time.

I'm so glad that so many people are finding this thread and getting strength from it x

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"An example of this is that I sent some birthday cards recently and my youngest mentioned in his message an upcoming event that concerns him. A return card duly followed a few days later. A nice, normal gesture but one that wouldn't have occurred had it not been prompted by me".

Sadly it was only sent at all because it was prompted by you in the first instance. It was done for appearances, you're all trying to keep up a façade of normality.

Your parents have still had a lifetime to make a difference when it came to you and they did not bother, they stuck to the same old. There is no excuse or justification for that.

Its as you state very sad and it is indeed to your credit that you have not chosen that dark path.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Lotta

I hope your sister decides to keep her as yet unborn child well away from these people. Narcissists in particular make out for being deplorably bad grandparent figures. They were not good parents to either of you, they will more likely than not be awful grandparent figures to her child also.

My own parents (particularly my mother because she did not feel old enough to become a grandparent; she was in her late 50s at the time) were themselves not totally thrilled about becoming grandparents either, I recall that I had a similarly matter of fact type of response.

But I think you personally would make for being a fab aunty!.

[Lottapianos]

Thanks Attila. She's very good at keeping them arm's length and has already said that no-one will be allowed to visit for at least a month after baby arrives, which I think sounds very sensible. She doesn't need people like our parents around her when she's feeling knackered and vulnerable.

I was very upset by her pregnancy news - jealous and full of grief - but I'm settling down now. I feel quite detached from the situation. I hope that all goes well for her but I feel the need to stay out of it emotionally to an extent.

My best friend has 2 little girls so I'm already an 'auntie' and you're right, I am indeed a fab one!

[whatamidoinghereanyway]

Hi lotta...
I could have written this you know. I completely identify with alternating between feeling I have every right to cut them off as self protection (the logical response) and feeling guilty.

I also have a longing for figures who will replace them...and still have a longing for a mother I never had.

It's horrible. Know that you're not alone.

My advice would be to focus on any good relationships you have, I often think of all the wonderful people in my life and then think of my mother who is just a lonely dick.