Reply to my narcissistic DF

[WaterWorld]

Hi

My ideal aim with my DF who shows many narcissistic traits is
Very Low Contact (prefer this to total NC for various reasons)

I have recently switched positions in the family from golden child to scapegoat (on marriage perchance) my only crime - I am less able to ignore his unreasonableness now DH is here as my witness.
DF is prone to lashing out without substance, maligning us to anyone who will listen, expertly triangulating us against close shared relatives, excluding my DH whose only crime is not playing 'the game'. LYING x many. Siblings unenlightened and loving new golden child positions

SO here is the thing
Two weeks ago we tried to arrange a short day trip so that DS can see Grandad.
Grandad said he will come as long as DH does not.

I have said I will not support bullying by exclusion of my DH, entirely unhealthy dynamic for DS to see, so meeting offer withdrawn.

Slanging match ensued DF hates DH will never see him again etc etc. all goes quiet - two weeks ago. Think he hung up on me that time and the time before!

Today
Text from DF arrived totally ignoring my clear explanation of why this is not appropriate
"Lets meet, you me and DS (fair-minded kid age 7 - no diplomatic training) and try to find a way forward x"

My answers options
1 Ha ha ha ... no or Who is this? I am joking... but makes me feel better.

I don't want to ignore (politeness being my minimum standard or lie - his goto standard) but am wary of providing more than minimal 'supply' ....

Tying myself in knots trying to reply.

Water,

You have stood up to him in a small but significant way by not sending a response. That is what he wants from you - a response - as well as a fight and the last word (that in particular). Such disordered thinking people like he only want those things. His message as well was never sent out of any real concern for you or your family.

Re your comment:-
"I still have not sent a response. I am so unable to stand up to him"
It shows me just how conditioned you have become to your family of origin's dysfunction when you think otherwise.

Detach and ignore is the way to go here. BTW you will likely hear from some flying monkey soon enough; ignore that person/people as well. Or an unsolicited package for your DS or he now having "tests" for a previously unknown health problem.

He doesn't want your DH there because your DH does not accept blindly the family dynamic, in other words he is onto him. Your F doesn't like this one bit as he might get challenged as your DH doesnt understand, know or want to play this game.

Your duty is to protect your DS from people like this, not try to facilitate a relationship.

I'd say to your father 'Unless you can show some respect for my DH, DS's father, we will not be meeting. I will not have any discussions about this in front of a 7 year old child as it is highly inappropriate. We are an entire package, please try to accept this and stop trying to bully me as I will not be changing my mind.'

How have your siblings been dealign with him? Prior to their new status as golden children?

Basically everything that Atilla and Fantasticbuttocks have said though. You will crucify yourself when you watch your son try to please someone who will treat him as a means to an end.

I can only imagine what you have all been through to be so clear on this, it;s clear we are walking / have walked similar paths.

Tread Siblings experienced a lot of pressure to do things for DF and have been based a lot further away from a lot younger than me. They treated DF..... dreadfully .... always letting him down ....don't ya know.... Or at least that what he told me the whole time - I have spent 20 years being disappointed that they were so much of a let down and left all family responsibilities to me! Classic and very effective triangulation from DF there - at every opportunity - if they awarded certificates for this he would have top marks in most modules I think.

I have replied - go me - less than 24 hours of torment form receipt to reply this time.

If you are up for a fight and are emotionally detached enough, you could reply with
"You mean you, me, ds, and dh, right?"
(ping-pong)
You could add to the text or just text the truth...
"The only way forward without dh will be no contact at all."
But then he would go NC with you and paint you as the villan.

But it is a waste of time and emotional energy. He is ignoring your boundaries and does not respect you. He wants to cause trouble in your marriage. He wants to use your dh to shit on you; he wants to use your ds to shit on you. The only way forward is no contact, imho, without announcement or fanfare.

The breezy "lets meet" kind of gets me too...you are being treated as an appendage of HIM-the-Great instead of asking you or inviting you or inquiring if it would be ok with you.

Why would ditching the family of origin be such a bad thing?

You have a lovely family of your own to concentrate on.

x post
What did you say?

Not quite a blank face but just simply

We won't be able to meet because as previously explained I am not happy for you to exclude DH.

What I am working up to saying if he replies

Please don't contact me until you can be reasonable.

The problem is that because you are not willing to go NC if needs be, your dad basically has the power in this situation. Please don't take that as a pop, it's not, it's just a fact. If he knows that your desire to stay in contact trumps your loyalty to your DH then he will just keep going until he gets what he wants. If your loyalty to your DH is more important, then what you are really saying is that you are willing to go NC with your dad if necessary. I think you need to have another long hard think about what lengths you are prepared to go to here. That is what will determine your response to this and to all future arguments.

FWIW, I would totally be prepared to go NC with him and the whole extended family if needs be. It sounds exhausting and it's got to be putting pressure on your own family life which isn't fair on any of you.

I'd reply "That's not moving forward. That's me giving in to your demands and I made my feelings clear on that last time we spoke. I will not alienate my own husband simply because you don't like him. He has done nothing to you. I don't know what your problem is but if you want to spend time with my family (that's myself, my son AND my husband) then you need to either get over it or tell us what the problem is so that we can address it all together. Please do not suggest any more meet ups which exclude my husband. I will ignore such messages in the future."

AndTheBand Thank you if only I could do anything without 'the fanfare' but he does not fade away.

However I am ready for NC now - I am sick of being tormented to the point I can't conduct my normal life and work

I am, I have just realised, ready for the flying monkeys to stay away also.

X post! Good on you for calling him out.

Id honestly go no contact even though your child wants to see him. He may well want to see him now but the damage he may do to him wont become apparent until hes older. My mothers mother was like this and my mum used to leave me with her all the time. She constantly tried to turn us against each other until we basically had no relationship at all. She was also inccredibly emotionally abusive to me and because she had destroyed my relationship with my mother i had no one to tell. It has taken me years and years in my adulthood to even begin to get over this and repair my relationship with my mother. Your childs most important relationships are with you and his father, anyone who tries to destroy that should be completely avoided. You are right it is incredibly unhealthy to let your son witness someone hate his father.
Id ignore his texts and id continue to ignore him completely unless you see any genuine changes or acknowledgement of his behaviour. x

Good for you, OP. Never stop defending your DH's corner hope you either get an adult reply or none at all and he sods off trying to make you all miserable.

Your dad will never be reasonable as long as he is alive frankly Water. You are wasting your time with him because you are giving him a response (which is really what he wants from you). This then allows him to respond to you further allowing him to bother you even more.

Shut the door for good now and walk away whilst you still have some sanity left; Jacket PoTayTo and houseontheweekend are bang on here with their counsel as well.

I would not respond at all further to your dad's demands. This message from him anyway was never ever sent out of any real concern for you people; its all about him and what he wants.

I would also now await the comments from his flying monkeys; they need to be ignored as well.

houses word genuine is a word I like !

Do I tell them this...

Until I can feel that there is a genuine desire to have a healthy relationship with me and my family I won't respond to any further texts or emails on the subject.

Or do I just shut up now and not send something like that at all.

I would not send any more messages, it just invites a further diatribe.

I would suggest waiting for his response. If you message again he will think you are spending time thinking about it. Which we know you are but he doesn't have to know...

You've said what needed to be said. Leave it now or you'll look like your panicking

And you're not. Got it? 😬

You're

Sorry

I have a feeling this is my future. Parents hate my BF

You cannot have a reasonable conversation with him because he just isn't interested. All he is interested in is manipulating you into doing what he wants (i.e. leaving your DH aside).

As PPs have said, present a united front with your DH at all times, and just repeat yourself like a broken record until he tires of it. And no, your child won't be missing anything worth not missing.

Good reply, you held your boundary! But now you are still engaged in waiting for a reply. I would assume that he will not reply and draw a line under it now.

The no fanfare applies to you, Water , because you can controll your end. Anything your father does is not down to you and you can not control him. So that'd be him talking to the six foot bunny rabbit hand because you are not there/engaging anymore.

This is why silence is best.
Eventually he will drop you as a target if he isn't getting supply out of you. Anything he says/does is stinky bait. Just leave it.

That applies to the Flying Monkeys too. Their loyalty is to him-that has been established so it would be a waste of time to try to have a relationship with them a la boundaries around the subject of dad. They sound like they would most certainly talk to him about you behind your back. Perhaps, in time, one may approach you with their truth regarding your father's EA behavior and seek some sort of validation from you. Then that person may be somewhat safe to cautiously engage with. But that would be at some distant point in the future.

Thank you everyone
I am sitting in bed trying to come down from the torment. An early night needed because I had little sleep last night and wasted most of today tensely trying to get my response right. There is no right response.

Ignore is the only option going forward.

Now I need to put down the (compulsive overeating being my go to comfort) and move on.

Here's to a happier free-er future x

In this situation no response is a response. Just because you are invited to an argument doesn't mean you have to attend.

You have said your piece and nothing more is needed so step away.

If the monkey's come just say 'sorry dad has dragged you into this. i don't want you to worry about it, it is between us so the less said about this the better. But DO tell me all about .... (Your new house, new job, your kids etc)

Here's a new mantra to try to live your life by:
My father is quite similar to yours by the sound of things. I am the golden child and my kid sister is not. She wraps herself up in knots by caring quite so much about what he thinks of her and her family and bends over backwards to seek my father's approval.

I get a lot of the same stick but choose to ignore it and I don't pander to it. Weirdly it seems to make my position stronger rather than weaker even when he is in strong disagreement with me.

"There is a huge amount of freedom that comes to you when you take nothing personally" Remember, it's not you, its him.