Father in law overstaying welcome. It's been months now and I'm hating it.

[SmashingTurnips]

I'm not too sure what I want from this thread - perhaps just an outside view to spur me to action.

Will try to keep this short. DH's father arrived to see us from abroad in the first week of January. He said he was staying for 10 days but he has never left. He hasn't been staying with us all that time - he stayed January, February and half of March. Then left to stay with a friend at the other end of the country only to appear back at the beginning of May.

The situation is driving me up the wall. He has told us that he is not going back to the county he was living in and that he is moving back to his home country for good. He has mentioned looking for a flat to rent but isn't doing anything about it and although I think he will eventually sort something out I want him to do it sooner rather than later.

We don't have a spare room, he is sleeping in the living room and just sits in there all day (dressed and on the sofa, not in bed) on his computer. He contributes nothing other than walking the dog sometimes. No shopping, no cooking, no washing up, nothing.

We work full time and have 2 DC. I want to scream when I come home in the evening and he hasn't even been arsed to wash a steeping pot or set the table. He likes his food and is there for every sodding meal yet has never offered to cook. He has offered shopping but doesn't actually buy proper food, he buys ice cream because he likes it and wants to eat it (he will offer us some though).

I can hardly bear to be around him as I feel so resentful of his presence.

Background is he and DH have never been close, his parents divorced when he was 7, his father moved away and they only really saw each other in the summer holidays (I think for 3 weeks to a month so not nothing). His dad never paid child support or helped DH in any way with education or whatever. He is a deeply selfish man (although not actually nasty or deliberately unkind). A few years ago he fell on hard times and we were worried about him, we lost all contact for a while and didn't even know if he was alive, we wonder if he may have been homeless for a short while around this time. Once he got back in touch DH suggested that he come back to his home country and said that we would help him get back on his feet. I feel that we have done that now and I want him to leave. He has a very modest pension but it is enough to live on.

DH has said (kindly but perfectly firmly) a few times that he needs to look for somewhere to stay but he isn't looking and mentions some vague plan to house sit for a friend who is abroad. I'm worried this won't come to anything and he will still be here in a few months time.

I want my home back and I think we have done enough by giving him bed and board for months (plus offers to help with finding somewhere, help with bits of furniture, etc).

I have days off from work during the week sometimes as sometimes work weekends and I'm sitting upstairs in my bedroom because I don't want to be around him (downstairs of house is only kitchen and living room and they lead into each other).

I think he feels a bit awkward about being here (he is very discreet although unfortunately not great at cleaning up after himself when he uses the toilet and so on) but he seems perfectly happy to just sit in our house all day everyday, shuffle to the table for every meal, never give us any space, etc.

I'm so done now but don't know what to do. We can't just turf him out. I suspect he wants to stay with us and he will try to drag this out for as long as possible. I think the bit that gets to me the most is I feel like he is an emotional parasite, he has never contributed to our family (never given our DC birthday or Xmas cards or presents for example) and now he wants to have a family like situation because he has suddenly realised that he is a lonely old (ish) man. He is leeching off us and I feel used.

DH is finding it just as hard. Thankfully we are on the same page with this but it does sometimes make us moody and snappy with each other.

All and any advice welcome...

I can't believe people who can freeload like this. I mean, I can believe it. I just can't ever imagine doing it. I would rather sleep in my bloody car than feel like a burden on someone else's space (and budget!)

He sounds like he is existing rather than living.

He needs his own space. Where he can settle down as himself.

And not impinge on the small amount of space that you have as a family. Which prevents you from working at home or enjoying days off. Or just relaxing in your own home with your own nuclear family. (I imagine that wandering around in a state of some undress is not an option at present - not implying anything, but that you can't just run from bedroom to bathroom with no top or skimpy legs if you feel like it, sort of thing - which you should be able to do in the privacy of your own home if you wanted to).

And it also prevents you from considering others coming to visit - whether to stay, or probably even for cups of tea and private chats (I am getting an impression on the latter).

He needs an ultimatum and an understanding that this is not HIS house to colonise, but his DS's that he is invading. And where he has worn out his welcome.

smashing I thought he was going to be elderly...at 66 and perfectly healthy he is freeloading and he knows it. The speech is "ok we have friends arriving for an indefinite stay on the 6th June, so where are you going to go, and what help do you need to get somewhere before then?!" Cue trembling lower lip and other manipulative shite...ignore and repeat the above every day until he's no longer there to say it to...

Thank you so much for all your replies. Am reading and taking them all in.

Yes, yes, yes to what you are all saying. It helps to hear it as you do doubt yourself - we have been feeling like we can't "turf him out" when what we need to be feeling is "we are going to have to turf him out". What a previous poster says about preferring to sleep in their car rather than freeload really resonates with me - when someone behaves in an outrageous way that you can't quite believe and would never do yourself it sort of wrong foots you. I guess that's why these people get away with it; a combination of selfishness, entitlement, brass neck, and just not behaving by regular normal rules like the rest of us. This is why DH and I need a kick up the arse so that we stop being mugs kind and accept that we are going to have to make him behave properly because he won't do it on his own.

Lebranic so sorry to hear you have had a similar problem (and smell!).

Sheltered housing may be an idea - not sure if he is old enough, will look into it.

And no we don't feel free to walk around in pants, have friends over, just hang out and do our thing. Our bedroom is upstairs and although the shower is upstairs the toilet is downstairs (old house), it annoys the fuck out of me that I have to put on clothes to come down on a weekend morning to have a pee and make a cup of tea IN MY OWN HOME. Also want to hang around on a Sunday morning with bed head hair and no bra on without having my fatherinlaw around.

Biddypop you are right he is just existing and would IMO be better off living his own life and having chores and things to keep him and normal/living reality busy rather than piggybacking our life and leading this weird existence. He has always been a bit like this - and has 3 exwives to show for it.

And no he is not elderly. He hasn't looked after himself very well in the last few years (we suspect an alcohol problem and perhaps a period of homelessness) but he is not an old man. He's a bored retired man who has always lived for himself and neglected his family but now thinks his son should welcome him with open arms because he's got nowhere to live, no assets, a modest pension and no real company.

When DH suggested seeing a benefits officer to get things sorted he just went very quiet and said nothing. He doesn't say much anyway and certainly doesn't let us in on his plans. The following day he said he fancied a flatshare because otherwise he would be lonely. Nobody is going to want to flatshare with a slightly smelly 66 year old retired man.

when someone behaves in an outrageous way that you can't quite believe and would never do yourself it sort of wrong foots you. I guess that's why these people get away with it

Yes - absolutely this

It might not seem this way right now, but actually there's good news here too: you and your DH are on the same page with it all. As we see on MN all the time there's an alternative scenario - and it isn't pretty

Of course he went quiet when DH suggested seeing a benefits officer. He was waiting to see if he was going to be told to leave or not. DH let him off the hook, so he got the excellent result of getting to stay in his new home, with the free food and housework. Result!

He even gets away with doing no food shopping by just buying ice cream. That's hilariously bold. You totally let him get away with a blatant "I'm not buying anything, you mugs."

He abandoned DH as a boy and is now freeloading off him in the most piss taking of ways.

He can't be arsed to find wife number 5 to cocklodge with, so he's borrowing his son's wife. Nice.

Your DH should be fucking livid and should be kicking his 'D'F out very very firmly.

The time for being polite has long past.

Gather your loins sit at the table and tell him clearly that this can't go on.

Agree a specific plan and make sure he sticks to it.

Don't allow yourselves to be guilt tripped.

Most of us looking after elderly or infirm parents do so out of a mixture of genuine love and a sense of paying back the care our parents gave us when we were young. You're not in that position: your FIL never made the effort to be a proper dad to your DH, so it really is asking a lot now to expect the privileges of one. I would want at least some effort on his part to compensate, and you're not getting any. 'Lets us eat his ice cream' doesn't cut it! My euphemism for moments where he (or others) hint or talk outright about him being looked after now, would be: 'But you've/we've/they've never been that sort of family, so you can't expect it to start now'.

FIL never made the effort to be a proper dad to your DH, so it really is asking a lot now to expect the privileges of one
Life isn't always so straightforward.
My dad was pretty bad but now he's in his eighties and alone. If I didn't visit he wouldn't see anyone for weeks on end.

OP, I do think you and your DH need to be firm about moving your FIL to his own place. You could have another thirty years of his company, if you don't act now.

"He can't be arsed to find wife number 5 to cocklodge with, so he's borrowing his son's wife. Nice."

Thank you for putting into words exactly how I feel.

I have said to my mum a few times that I feel there is something horribly masculine about his behaviour (letting others service him with meals, a clean environment, a toilet that gets cleaned, etc). This is why I feel so bloody angry and upset about the whole thing. It's bad enough that he is here and freeloading, but in addition, he is cocklodging (apart from the obvious).

We work full time and have 2 DC

Why the hell are you putting up with this?!

I get we have to take care of parents & ILs, been there, done it
but not at the emotional, practical, financial expense of ourself.(ves) and DC. This is really not fair on them, growing up, friends, school, play, etc.

As they say on MN, it's your husband who doesn't want to deal with it, his dad and family dynamics

He Bought himself a car instead of contributing to the family finances or putting down a deposit on a flat . Well his car is his very mobile home. I'd feel like buying him some kind of portable loo and telling him to eff off. Op he really needs to go. What do the DC think of him?

I feel your pain OP. my ILs come from overseas to visit every year for at least two months and it gets soooo old having peope living and bickering in my space and eating my food and monopolising the bathroom and telling me to put a coat on DS and choosing what we watch on telly and... You get the picture. There are definitely cultural issues at stake in our case but we've made it clear that next time they have to book an airbnb for at least part of the stay. I think in your case it's pretty clear you're going to have to do if not most of the legwork in finding him a new place I'm afraid.

Why the hell are you putting up with this?!

I don't know. Hence this thread. I think part of is that both DH and I come from dysfunctional families and we are far too accommodating of others due to feelings of lack of security in our childhoods. It has made us people pleasers and I know that this feels like the nail in the coffin to DH with regards to his relationship with his father. Don't know if that makes sense but I get it and it is why I have been putting up with things. I'm not doing it for FIL. I'm just giving my DH support whilst he deals with a horrible thing (being used by a crappy father).

And yes as a previous poster said we are lucky that we are on the same page as a couple.

Yes also it is not fair on our DC. Up until recently I would have said (having asked my children) that they were ok with the situation. FIL keeps very much to himself and didn't really bother them. But they can feel the tension and they also spend lots of time upstairs in their bedroom (they are a bit shy with him) and that isn't right. Plus our family dynamic is just different and DH and I are sometimes moody and we just aren't living our own normal mostly happy life.

And yes he bought a car really quickly after coming here. Without saying to us that he was actually planning on staying in the country even! He was still "officially" on holiday at that point.

Had the fucking cheek to ask us to insure it for him as well - he asked us to put it on our insurance as it would be "easier" and then he would give us the money!!

I think he probably would have paid us but there was no way we were putting the insurance in our name.

He has taken out insurance using our address however - I feel concerned about this because I think it might invalidate his homeless status and make things more complicated with regards to housing, benefits, etc.

So he's not a grandfather, he's an unwanted and smelly parasite guest.

Insurance doesn't give ironclad proof of address. I don't think this is of any relevance otherwise no one owning a car could ask for these benefits.

Smashing you are the one being used here because i bet you are doing the extra housework that he causes.

You have the patience of a Saint!

You owe him nothing and yet he has taken over your home!! You hide upstairs in the bedroom!
He pays nothing and you wait hand and foot on him.
I would have erupted by now!

Your DH needs to tell him straight that you have no space or a spare room and he needs to move on Asap.

He bought a car really quickly after coming here. Without saying to us that he was actually planning on staying in the country even!

I'll bet he did - no doubt he'd worked out that he was onto a good thing

As you fully recognize yourself, it's time to say goodbye whether he likes it or not

66?

What an incredible shock that he is 3 times divorced

It's true that many 66 year olds are 'old' but it's always a shock to hear about it when so many are still in fizzing good form. My mother was still wearing me out on a regular basis at this age.

TBH I would find him somewhere to live that you think he can afford (if you have a rough feeling for his budget. Like, now. Then I'd hand him the details and tell him he is all set to be out at the end of the month.

Sooner or later either you or your DH are going to crack and have a massive, ranty argument with him. It'll end badly.
Standing up for yourselves now, while you are both feeling used and can present a united and calm front, will be better for everyone than a fizzing, furious breakdown of whatever relationship there is left.
You have been extraordinarily patient. I'd have been sharpening knives and muttering dementedly inside a week.

He can look for a flat share with another old man, but whatever he does needs to be done quick. I know the feeling of not being able to walk around in your nightshirt or sit on the sofa in the evenings.

Feels like your house has been invaded.

I feel so sad for you OP what an awful situation to be in.

You have to stop letting him do this to you, I fear he will stay until you literally kick out of the door... He has it great at the moment in his eyes, meals cooked, cleaned up after, free to do what he wants all day - I think your a saint for getting this far, especially as you thought he had finally left and then came back again! Gosh I want to throttle him for you, what an incredibly selfish man.

I really hope you and your husband get him out of there before July so you can get your homes and lives back, you really don't owe him anything.

I think you and DH have somewhat different immediate challenges here.

DH has to tell his 'D'F to leave, presumably as a child he desperately wanted his 'D'F to come back. So that's a big old psychological wrench. Sounds like he'll get there in the end though.

Problem is that while DH is getting his head straight you are being treated like the skivvy, the subservient handmaiden bowing down to the grand old man. Your children are seeing it happen.

It sends a message that you can't stand up for yourself, you'll let him behave like this towards you, you'll be his slave until DH rescues you. Is that the behaviour you want to model to your DC?

Irrespective of what DH does, you must stop yourself being used as a slave. Make the fucker behave properly: his own laundry, housework, shopping, cooking, clean that toilet. Do not do shit for him.

Show your children how strong women deal with men who expect to be waited on hand and foot. (Hint: it's not by washing his pants and hiding in your bedroom while he sits in your living room waiting for his dinner).

Send him a link to AirBnB and tell him he has 5 days before he has to be out..