AIBU to be so upset by this?

[SeventyNineBottlesOfWine]

I feel hurt by my family's lack of interest in me.

I have a brother and a sister. My brother and his wife, I never see. For years I tried to have some sort of a relationship with them but they always made excuses to avoid me

They've always been like this, not speaking to me and not wanting to meet up with me. My two children both went through major surgeries and they didn't even bother to text to ask how they were.

My sister has some learning difficulties. Whenever my parents are away on holiday (which can be quite frequent now they're both retired), she relies heavily on me to help her out.

I'll get panicked phone calls at all times of the night and day where she will be hysterical about something that's gone wrong. I'll sort it out for her and have rung companies for her, helped her pay bills, and been there when she's lonely.
When my parents come back from their holidays she goes back to relying on them and I never see her until they're away again and she wants something.

I feel so unhappy about all this. I don't have any kind of relationship with either.

My parents worship the ground my brother walks on and always have. They will frequently drop everything to be there for him and his wife. They babysit at the drop of a hat, have sat in his house all day waiting for carpets to be delivered, have helped him and his wife decorate, move house etc.

I've never received this much support from them despite being a single parent.
If I phone my Mum she just seems desperate to get me off the phone.

She never pops in to see me and rarely sees my children in comparison to my brother's children.

My brother has even told them to stop going to see him on a weekend as he wants the time with his wife and her children and has told them he will only see them in the week.

My sister sees my parents every Sunday and they take her out for a meal.

I know it sounds so stupid as I'm a grown woman, but I feel completely unloved and unwanted by them and it hurts.

Hey, hang on, the OP doesn't need a plan for how to manage her sister when her parents are dead! Her sister has absolutely nothing to do with her when she has an alternative - her parents should be considering what will happen, but not the OP.

OP, I think you should have as little to do with them as you can. They're your relatives, but they're not your friends. They don't want what's best for you - occasionally you are useful to them, but that's it. That is a really unhealthy way to live.

I think the first thing to do is not to be at your sister's beck and call when your parents are away. Don't give her a penny. She only has herself to look after; you have children. Don't have her to stay with you, either. You could have a pleasant phone call (if she calls you) but the minute she asks for help, say you can't give it and you have to go. Put the phone down and ignore any other calls. She's using you and you have to stop her thinking she can do that.

I meant, get it properly organised before the holiday. Tell your parents that you're away at the end of the month and they need to organise your brother and make sure your sister understands to call him. They need to talk to him and tell him that your sister will be his responsibility while they're away this time.

Don't back down if they say he refuses. Pretend to yourself that this is a training course for work which will ensure you earn a decent amount and will benefit you and your children, to get yourself in the right mood; this is a course you absolutely have to do, or you will end up with no job at all.

If he does refuse, they will have to organise private care for her.

Duckdaemon I really have been there for my sister, yes. Before she met her partner , I would take her out every Saturday night with me and have her to stay over at my house. She had social anxiety and I helped support her to get out of the house and make friends and have a life.

Unfortunately she then met the abusive partner so it didn't all end well.

The last time I asked her if I could join her on a night out she said no. I haven't asked since.

Imperial I agree that I should no longer be at her beck and call. They are away again in a couple of weeks so it's pretty much guaranteed my sister will be contacting me again, needing my help or wanting to spend time with me as she's lonely. I've decided to tell her I'm too busy and have other plans.

Boaty I think they're afraid of asking my brother to pull his weight as they think he'll stop them seeing the children.
He's banned them from going round to see him on a weekend and now the only time they see him is when my brother and SIL's childcare has fallen through and they are in need of a babysitter.
My SIL stopped her own parents from seeing the children for a short while as her Mum had refused to care for her daughter one day as her daughter was ill and there was a newborn baby in the family who her mother didn't want to pass on any illness too. My SIL was angry about this so stopped her seeing the children as punishment. It all explains in a way why my parents pussyfoot around them and are at their beck and call.

Your brother and his wife sound like a nightmare.
I'm sorry that you have been treated like this by your parents, but tend to agree with PP that you need to ask what you are getting from these relationships. Maybe it's time to concentrate on those friends and other people who do care for you and treat you well. Sad that the children can already see how differently your family is treated. Do you think this can ever in reality change?

Sounds like you are lovely OP, (and have just suffered the misfortune of having shit parents. So unfair)

gruffalo My brother and his wife really are a nightmare. It wasn't so hard to cut ties with them as they're not the kind of people I'd ever want anything to do with. They're both extremely arrogant and selfish and unkind.

In a way, I knew already that I needed to step away. It just helps to have people to confirm it so I don't feel like I'm going mad.

In the past I've had trouble with depression and my Mum even now will just say the way I'm feeling is due to that.

I told her recently I was upset about not seeing my sister apart from when she wanted something and she told me "Well we'll be away again soon, so you'll see her again". Missing the point entirely!!

All the more reason to force the issue. If they're too scared to ask your brother to help, what will they do when there is a time where you really can't be there? They really do need to think about that, and start getting your sister used to sometimes calling someone besides you for help when they're not around. At some point you're going to find that you are pulled between a lot f conflicting responsibilities otherwise - children, work, health, partner, sister, who knows what.

Being an arrogant shit is not a good reason to pussyfoot around someone. He should be pushed to step up and behave like a human being; apart from anything else, he's a member of the family and they spent a lot of love and time and energy on making him able to be successful. He can put a bit back in. Or at least, your parents need to see that he's just a bit of a shit.

Boaty my friends tell me the same as you. They're concerned as I'm a single parent to two children, one who is disabled and needs a lot of my time plus I work also. My friends say that my parents really need to sort something out for my sister as they can't just expect me to take it all over when they're gone.

My parents would never view my brother as a shit though. They think the sun shines out of his behind! They always have. They always excuse him and his wife's behaviour. My sister has said to me before that if we behaved like him, they'd probably disown us! We laughed about that- but sadly I don't think it's a joke. I think it would be true!

Imo there's is no point confronting any of them. It would be like talking to someone in a cult, or hypnotised - they are just not going to hear it.

Sadly op your family is toxic. It is terminal ie it will never change or get better. Do read Toxic Parents by Susan Forward ( I think.) It will open your eyes. Painful but a clean pain in a way, not the agonising, tortured pain you're going through now.

I know that pain. There is nothing like it on the agony scale. Hopefully it won't be long before you get the knowledge, therefore strength and courage, to step away from them and the agony loop

You might consider phoning/making an online referral to social services about your sister, given her learning difficulties, if you are genuinely concerned about her welfare in your parents absence with you not supporting her. It might directly help your sister and it draws attention to her issues outside of the family unit which isn't a bad idea.

Good idea independent

It really isn't the OP's problem to look after her sister. Of course if she chooses to then that's fine. But with the family circumstances it's reasonable to look further for support.

And glad that you know you're not going mad, OP! To insinuate that all your feelings are solely due to depression is very manipulative of your mother, imo. I don't have toxic family but I believe the book is very helpful.
Onwards and upwards

Barring my sister who would definitely call when she needed something. Perhaps it's time to start being unavailable when she rings, or saying no? If this was a friend, you wouldn't allow that friendship to be come so one sided, would you? It really isn't any different when it is family.

I second not being available or not even answering the phone when your parents are next away. Tell them you won't be able to do anything this time and they need to sort it. Stick to that. Sounds like you'd be better off withdrawing from the lot of them.

they will continue to take take take and use use use. you don't owe them anything.

always being there for families like this only grinds us down in the long run.

decide on your boundaries and give them advance warning....ask them what provisions they've put in place for dsis - and that they need to organise help for dsis. learn to start saying 'no, it doesn't work for me' whenever they ask why. you don't owe them any more explanation than that.

tell them they need to start thinking about how dsis will cope when they can no longer look after her/get old.

Thanks all of you for your advice.

I bought the book, Toxic Parents" and read it all yesterday.

It was extremely insightful, but also hurt more too. The realisation that things probably aren't ever going to improve is hard.

I've taken your advice and spoken with my parents about my sister. I told them that I will be too busy over the following weeks to be her support whilst they're away.

They informed me that she will be fine and probably won't need me anyway (I sincerely doubt this)

Unfortunately my sister's learning difficulties aren't to the extent that she could access services. She is able to live independently, but requires a lot of family support to do so.

She works and drives a car, but cannot cope with bills, letters, loneliness etc. It's hard to explain.

Your DM is a great one for dismissive comments isn't she!

Sounds like your life is very full and busy!

If your sister can only live alone with a lot of support, and has also had an abusive relationship, she might well need social services if there was no one in the family willing/able to support her. Let's hope your parents, not great to you as they are, are around a good while!

Unfortunately given what your like your parents aren't likely to do things to help her to increase independence or encourage her to be nicer to you - she's grown up seeing how you are treated and absorbed that - and they are just assuming you will be there when they want to go away (or are ill or have died), and when you quite reasonably seek to discuss options dismiss you.

Do you actually want to continue to see your sister, if with your feedback and help she can make some changes to be more considerate, or in your heart do you feel similarly about her as you do about your brother?

I mean given what THEY'RE like, not you're like

Duckdaemon I don't feel as negatively about my sister as I do my brother. She's selfish and self absorbed but I place a lot of that on her learning difficulties.

She struggles with empathy.

She's nowhere near as dismissive and rude as my brother.

Op I have had a similar experience to you in that both my parents (divorced) are very distant and seem at best indifferent to me. My mum has inproved in recent yrs though. The difference is that I have a brother and a sister that they also make no (in dads case) or limited (in mum's case) effort to see/ contact.
With my dad its like out of sight out of mind.
At almost 40, his rejection makes me feel like an abandoned little child, wondering why he doesnt love me.
I've had counselling and realised through this that I cannot change him. He simply is not capable of being the dad i want/ need.
I can only try to protect myself and manage my expectations of him. In practice this has meant distancing myself from him. I am still working on the expectations management!
Fundamentally I do believe that he loves me, but that he cannot show this in a way that you and i would expect. I also think that he has no clue how hurtful his behaviour is (even though we have various discussions in the past)
I now focus on what feels right for me and making sure my kids never doubt my love for them.

halfway Thank you.

What you've written is exactly how I feel, like an abandoned child.

It was very helpful to hear the way you deal with this and I think this is something I need to put into practice.

I have too high expectations of my family that they will never fulfill.

I do believe my parents and my sister love me, just aren't the best at being good family members to me.

Hi SeventyNineBottles, I really feel for you and can relate to a lot of what you've written. I too have one brother, one sister and it's my brother who's the golden child and can do no wrong - although to be fair, I get on very well with him and it's not his fault. It was my sister who was more in your position and she used to be incredibly hurt by the way my parents treated her - she said it was establishing boundaries, continually making a concerted effort to see them and an absolute refusal to allow them to hurt her any more by concentrating on the positive aspects of her life (her children , her many friends, her job and me - she and my brother don't speak at all) that has enabled her to accept the way they are and that they won't change (they are 91 and 86 and very active, travel abroad a lot). My ex H left when I was pregnant and overseas - my parents were deeply embarrassed about the fact that I came back to the UK to stay with them with a small baby as they "didn't know how to explain to the neighbours that I was a single parent". I didn't return for five years. Conversely my brother's two eldest were born "out of wedlock" but that was OK.

There are no easy answers except that I do believe that as you say, your parents love you but for whatever reason find it difficult to express. I recall once on my sister's birthday when I was overseas - my DM rang me and was waxing lyrical about what a beautiful baby my sister had been and how people would stop in the street to admire her. My DSis rang me later and I repeated this to her and she burst into tears as she'd had a short and stilted conversation with our DM - she asked me why on earth our DM couldn't share these feelings with her - again, I had no answers.

Sending you . You are obviously a lovely person, especially with all you do for your sister, although you are right to withdraw some of your support and see how they cope without you.

Thank you Lobster. It helps to read of others situations and read how other people deal with it. It also helps to know that I'm not alone in feeling so hurt by it.

Sometimes I do think I'm overreacting or being childish, so to have my feelings validated helps a lot.

I definitely will withdraw my support. Sometimes I've been so stressed with the demands my sister places on me. If she needs help, she will often call me or turn up hysterical and will expect me to sort everything then and there.

Also because she's in a distressed state she will be very rude to me.

There's no point always being there for her when the minute I'm not needed she doesn't bother with me at all.

Plus, I think my parents do need to get their heads out of the sand and realise they need to sort out adequate support for her. If I'm always there doing it they have no need to bother.

The problem is by providing the support for your sister you are enabling her and your parents to ignore the real issue. So they are not dealing with the real issues or planning for the future.
I would suggest you provide her with a list of phone numbers that she can call: Samaritans, CAB, and any charity to do with her learning difficulties (NAS?).

You could also speak to your sister about how being rejected and ignored except when she wants to offload or needs help makes you feel and what you'd like from her: you never know, she might be able and willing to make more effort.

I think you will need counselling to address this going forward, op. The longing to be loved by our parents/primary caregivers is very powerful and we need support as well as knowledge to start turning things around in our heart and head. It's not a one-off thing, it takes time - the longing, endured for a lifetime (particularly through primary years when conditioning gets laid down in what feels like concrete), comes back and plagues; the hankering starts up again...

Ime anyway. To this day I can still be poleaxed by my parents on the rare occasion. I know everything there is to know about toxic families (and some), have had loads of therapy, keep my parents at a distance yet one thing can send me back into the pit. It's a lifetime's work to recover from this stuff.

That's not to say we flop around, broken souls, for the rest of our lives. No, we live our lives, good lives, but there is a very sore bit at the core. ime.