edited: what do I do about this crap?

[Chicago73]

Apologies if you already ploughed through the last post I made, I posted this as a comment in a random thread and when I realised, cut and pasted it here - what I didn't realise was I also pasted the rest of the thread too 🙈
1st timer so forgive the lack of knowledge and etiquette.

Problem is this. I am self employed work ft and earn excellent money, husband stays at home. We have 2 daughters 20 & 13 yo. He does school run and cooks dinner, but that's about it, the rest of the day he just watches tv. If I'm home he stays in bed for a lie in (!) and I do the school run (which I quite like actually) and everything else. We have cleaners once a week to do a big clean and me and the girls keep on top of it other than that. So you get the picture he's basically a lazy bast@rd. He's miserable and mean. The bit I wanted advice about is this, I pay all the bills, everything. He has some income from a property he owns so I don't physically give him any cash but he does not contribute financially at all. He agreed that I could have £500 a month for myself (from my own income!!) but this is eaten up quickly each month as I give the kids money, buy food at weekends and work in the city so stuff just costs more. I don't know why I am trying to justify this. I have a limited company which I invoice my clients from and the money gets paid into, and when I pay myself each month it goes into our joint account (which I am not allowed to use without being told off) and I withdraw £500 into my personal account. The business acct is in both of our names (foolish on reflection) so when I run out of cash I sometimes take funds (as 'director drawings' if you know the legalities of this stuff). I never told him I did this before. Anyway he's gone ballistic today because he asked how much money was in the business account and I told him and he said that seemed a bit low, so I told him I'd been taking extra sometimes (I've checked and it's on average about an extra £300 a month). He blew his top and has shouted at me calling me a liar and a thief and saying I am stealing from the family. I argued this was all my money anyway and that made him worse. Complicated by the fact that we own a house that my parents rent from us but is in his name (to be tax efficient - another error) he is now threatening to sell the house to "get back the money I have stolen". Tbh our marriage is shit and I'm really unhappy I put up with loads of crap because it's easy. I'm out of the house a lot working so don't have to deal with it. But this latest issue has just shaken me into reality - wtf am I doing with this loser. I don't know what I want people to say really, I just want to know what you all think. And perhaps a kick up the Arse for being such an idiot. I can't talk to anyone because people don't see this side of me, I'm living a double life and it's bloody miserable. Thanks for any comments.

It seems as though the scales are falling from your eyes. See a solicitor with expertise in finance & family law.

shouted at me calling me... a thief and saying I am stealing from the family

Pot! kettle! Black! I would LAUGH OUT LOUD if it weren't so serious.

God, he's revolting isn't it. Cocklodger. How dare he dictate to you when you're the one doing the graft and he's the one slobbing about stealing all your money.

Did you post this earlier today? Am I having deja vu? I remember your post, OP, and the bit about having copied and pasted the wrong bit, and the reply from Imperial Blether about sand etc.

You have some really good advice but I feel a bit discombobulated!

Just out of curiosity, if you are allowed £500 a month of your earnings does that mean he gets the same? Is that why he was pissed off that you got more and he didn't besides being a twat

i'd be separating the finances and accounts. get all your income paid directly into your own account. stop/limit his access to your company account.

family money - in the joint account - is money you both contribute to seeing as you both have 'incomes'. that family money gets spent on the family - food, bills etc. How on earth has he justified not contributing to the household costs or chores for all this time?! If he doesn't contribute then he doesn't get treated like a part of the household. and let him sort his own washing/ironing/cooking.

the rest of your income stays in your own account that he has no access to. i'd also move 2/3 of any joint savings out of his reach.

tell him he has to use his rental income to contribute his share to the family, and if it leaves him short then he can get off his lazy backside and get a job. stop funding him. let him feel the financial pinch and hopefully it will buy you time to get your own paperwork/legalities sorted.

If I were you I would set up another limited company (quick and easy and cheap to do) with a similar but different name and start invoicing from that one with new bank account. Then when you are ready to go, he won't be able to touch your business

Obviously make sure you pay all tiger tax / VAT and suppliers in the old business!

What happened to the man you fell in love with? ? Was he always like you described above or has life, age turned him into what he's become. Faced with possible divorce would he try to change, fight for your love and affection your marriage and family. Or are you past caring?

Solicitor, ASAP.

Also, from personal experience: while you should obviously try to salvage all you can, you may end up losing financially if you do divorce him. Happened to me when I (highly paid consultant) divorced my ExH (lazy job hopper/between jobs all the time). It stings but for me it was the only way I could rid myself of him. I call it the price of freedom. Don't be afraid to go there if it gets to that point: you're the one with all the business skills and contacts, you'll be fine either way!

Some truly terrible advice on this thread.

Firstly, while it's entirely possible that this man is a grade A arsehole, if the situation was reversed and we were talking about a SAHM whose partner was being advised to remove all of the savings/cut off any money/income/change the bank accounts into his own name etc it would be considered by law to be financial abuse, not just in the eyes of MN but in the eyes of the law.

While I don't disagree that he shouldn't be accusing the OP of stealing the family money, the general premise is that money within a marriage is family money, so for the op to be withdrawing from the business account without her DH's knowledge could rightly be considered to be underhand.

Fact is, this man is not in employment, and we have no idea why or how that came about I.e. Whether he and the OP decided jointly for him to stay home with the kids or whether he chose to give up work/was made redundant etc etc and whether he now finds it impossible to get back to work (there are plenty of threads to that effect on MN). But if the OP was the breadwinner and he gave up his job/career to be with the kids when they were younger then he most likely would be entitled to spousal maintenance, and realistically, why shouldn't he?

And WRT the business, if the business is in joint names and he is a director the OP can't just dissolve it and set up a new one in her name - if it came to sorting out the financial assets it would become very apparent very quickly that the OP was hiding assets to get out of giving him his share.

Also many couples have rows. "Going bolistic" is a term, it's highly unlikely you would be able to throw someone out of the house and get injunctions against them based on what was most likely a heated row.

OP if you do want out of this marriage then you do need to see a solicitor to figure out your position. But be prepared for the fact that this isn't going to come down to just moving all the money into your name and sailing off into the happy sunset without him. You shouldn't stay in a marriage which makes you unhappy, but given the amount of finance, property etc involved you need to be prepared for probably a long and messy (and expensive) battle.

(And IMO MN has completely lost the plot on this thread).

I see your point OP. But I kinda agree with the post here saying what would happen if the situation was reverse. So we probably need more info here. For example, how did he end up doing nothing at all and you have a blooming business? Whose suggestion was it and when ? And also, what chances are there for him to get back to work even if it's with you?
I do get it that you are so over it. But if he did leave his career to support yours, I would say you are being mean and probably fnancially controlling although I agree he should nt have talked or shouted on you that way. But still. Hope you see my point?

Oh I forgot to ask: did he insist on having his name on assets and business because he knew he was leaving a career and taking a very big risk?

And did you leave it to come to this because you were establishing yourself so far and are now fully confident about where you stand? Please don't think I am accusing you of something. I am just trying to be of some help in soul searching.

I think if a man wrote that same paragraph about his stay at home wife (opening post, para 2) then the responses would be the same to him. The OP, DDs and a cleaner do all the cleaning while the husband watches TV all day, for example. She shares her income but he won't share his. If she's at home he won't do the school run and lies in instead. He makes dinner and that's his sole contribution to running his family home. He's 'miserable and mean'.

Why would a woman behaving like this get an easier ride from MN? Because I've seen it on here, and she wouldn't.

If a man...
has no relevance, here or elsewhere

OP is not a man. Men & women have different rôles expected of them - unfairly I know. I do not think a woman in that position would see her rôle as to have a relaxing day at home

OP, sorry I have allowed myself to go off on this tangent

If he stays at home, I dont understand why you are paying for a cleaner !

I dont understand why he does not work, even part time

The family dynamic seems unequal

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However, I assume that you both originally made the choice to live this way

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You are unhappy, make some changes

But whether it is a man or a woman is irrelevant when it comes to e.g. Division of assets. The courts aren't going to take into account the fact that the op says that her DH sits at home watching television all day. What is relevant is that he is the younger child's main carer and may have been since both children were young for all we know. And cutting off access to money would be considered financial abuse in the eyes of the law. The op simply doesn't have the right to just cut off access to money, however tempting that might be.

And if he is the part owner of the business then he may have the right to a future salary from that business or to a portion of its value if it were to be dissolved in order for the op to set up independently. And there is property involved as well.

As tempting as it is, you simply cannot give emotion-based advice because the law doesn't take that into account.

Regardless of how much of an arse he is, he still has rights.

And that was the basis of my advice upthread.

The OP's husband has his own personal income from a property in his name. I suggested he would keep that, to utilise for himself.

Wannabe is right about the money/business but wrong about his contribution to the home/children. Parents who work full time and do all the caring and housework while an unemployed spouse watches TV can be classed as the primary carer. A 'SAHP' has to actually do the SAHP work to be the primary carer or they are just classed as an unemployed cocklodger.

Plus keeping his income for himself whilst dictating how his wife's income is spent is financially abusive.

wow that's unbelievable him telling you how much of YOUR earnings you are ALLOWED a month and then saying you are stealing your OWN income. who they hell does he think he is?! Lazy, lazy fucker. Glad you are going to see a lawyer try get the ball moving quickly before you falter!

I wonder if he got so aggressive when he knew you were taking dividends as he's worried you are planning to leave ... It's time to end this, it's not good for you, your Daughters or him frankly. I have a friend who is in a completely loveless marriage, has the financial ability to leave, their children are 18 and 15 so not babies but still stays and when I ask her 'why' she just cries and says it's better than being on her own. It makes me want to shake her .. but I won't, I'll support her. But there is a better life out there for you single than in this kind of relationship.

Offred - those are classifications in the eyes of mumsnet though, not of the court 😄

Funny enough overnight I'd been thinking about the advice and if the situation were reversed. I have been with him since I was 16 and he was 23. I started work at 16 and we moved in together when I was 18. He worked on and off for a few years but I really knuckled down , went to college, got qualified, got promoted and was fairly happy. During this time he wasn't exactly man of the year but I had different priorities and because we had a mortgage just paid what I needed to in order to meet the bills each month. We sold that first house for a massive profit and bought the one we are in today. We used the profit to buy an apartment abroad and a buy to let house nearby. Husband took this as a cue to call himself a 'landlord' and that somehow became is 'job'. He carried on working cash in hand and saved enough for a deposit on the property he bought himself (although as he wasn't contributing to bills/paying mortgage - it was basically half my money anyway). Seriously dysfunctional I know but I'm just be honest I know it makes me look an idiot, but he is very good at arguing and I just don't want to argue. Eventually my parents hit financial difficulties and moved into one of the rentals, just paying the interest on the mortgage to cover costs. Although this caused massive rows between us as he wants to charge them more. He uses this as a way to shut me up if we row saying they can go and find somewhere else to live etc etc.

When girls came along I took 3 and 6 months mat leave (both times went back when full pay stopped) as by then I felt responsible for the upkeep of our lifestyle. My earnings increased significantly when I started consulting 3 years ago and this is when we agreed the £500 allowance arrangement. I did agree too as previously all our money had been eaten up with bills, holidays and him buying flashy cars on finance. As I type this I could slap myself, no wonder he carried on I've been facilitating this for such a long time and going with the flow.

All the time things are ticking along like this it's ok, but any change or disruption to this arrangement and the shit hits the fan. He says he wants to use the rest of my earnings to save for the families future and of course that's my intention too. I just need this to be on my terms.

Other stuff that I started remembering include times he has been violent towards me - a few times over the years, usually when drunk. I gave him an ultimatum after this and it's not happened since, but I do constantly worry when he's been out, he belittles it by saying he had his 'nasty bastard' head on. Unbelievable now I have my eyes open. I also gave up drinking after he told me I had a problem - however I can't see that I actually did. Ridiculous situation. Just another control tactic. He calls me a recovering alcoholic even though I just never had another drink after one occasion when I got so drunk that I didn't remember what happened.

I know he will never change, he's a crap husband, people don't see the full extent (in fact I flippantly call him 'Funtime frankie' when he's out because he is the life and soul). I've got to a point in my life where I can explain it to the kids and move on and I think it's time for the end.

I am scared how he will react, but am prepared to go through it as I think there is still time for me to have a better life. I'm only 44! I've wasted such a lot of time, but am comforted that we have our girls. I'm not bothered about losing out financially I don't want him to be destitute but I am keen there is fairness.

I don't love him anymore apart from the inevitable bond that comes from spending my whole life with him.

I haven't been able to go to a solicitor today as i would have liked because I'm ill in bed with a cold. To give you an insight, he hasn't spoken to me since yesterday mornings argument, he knows I'm struggling in bed and I'm having to get my own drinks and have just walked up the shops to get some Lemsip and tissues.

Thanks to everyone for taking the time, I'll keep updating as it is giving me the support and turning up the volume of my inner voice. It's obvious what I need to do and I can't even say I didn't know. I did, I just went for the 'easy' option.

Looking back it wasn't so easy after all.

The easy option, which could safely be renamed The Trap

No, they are classifications in court.