The old 'lack of intimacy' thing again

[Zaphodsotherhead]

I've been with my partner for five years. We don't live together, no children, only see each other maybe once every ten days. He is a kind, lovely man who gets on very well with my adult children and I am sure he'd be horrified to know I felt so bloody angry with him...He WILL NOT engage with me physically, in any way, shape or form, to the extent of recoiling if I go to kiss him. No hand holding/sitting next to/snuggling up/kissing/hugging. But he still wants sex - after which we have to leap apart.

We don't have the best communication, if I try to raise issues he goes very quiet and acts all hurt, but, tbh, I rarely try now. We hardly ever talk at all, in fact, most of our time together is spent in front of the TV (and I bloody hate watching TV, but it stops us having to talk...). We got together very quickly after my marriage broke up, but he was affectionate at the start and used to hold my hand and everything. Now, when we go out for a walk, he walks four or five metres ahead (to the extent that people have started to comment). He's not very 'emotionally literate', very blokey, not been in many relationships (which has been the cause of other problems too...). So. How do I raise it with him that I am actually starting to feel like a prostitute (apologies to any working girls out there) - having sex with no intimacy?

Buy him a blowup doll, then he can wash it himself after and you don't have to bother getting out of bed.

Vulcan - yes, I do, he makes me feel very secure, very safe. He's utterly dependable, reliable and steady. I know he would die rather than cheat on me.

nodding The thought had occurred....

Maybe if he realised how bad and how long you've been feeling like this, he'd make more of an effort, like he did at the start. Or just not bother with sex at all, because it just sounds grim.

So if you're walking somewhere together, and you hold his hand, what does he do? Or if you said to him "hey, you're supposed to be walking with me,not on your own", how do you think he'd respond?

If you want to continue seeing him, but want the affection too, then I guess you need to encourage that side of him (quite firmly), and see where it goes.

Vulcan - thank you. You're right, there really isn't any other way round this than sitting down for a talk, is there? I came here really wanting to know if others had the same problem, but from the comments I've had, he does seem to be a special case. Getting it all down has made me realise that I do care for him more than I thought - I've been very resistant to people saying 'ditch him'.

The sex is a whole other thread topic - again, because he hasn't dated much, his entire exposure to sex has been through porn - I think it came as a huge shock to him that we aren't all as 'flexible' as those young ladies!

Agatha If I grab his hand he will hold mine back. But I don't want to do it if he doesn't want to; I don't want him to feel 'forced' into PDA's if he's not comfortable. And the walking ahead thing started because of something particular (which I don't want to say because I might out myself), but happens now all the time. I started off going along with it, but now I just find myself toddling along behind thinking 'he can't think this is all right, can he?' I have called him out on it a few times, he slows down for a while, then speeds back up again, which means I end up breathlessly puffing alongside him if I want to walk with him. He just can't slow down!

I'm struggling to understand . So every 10 days, this man comes round to your house, does a bit of DIY and watches telly ( which he enjoys and your don't ) .

Then you have sex which he enjoys and you don't , because he doesn't value you as a person. And he's disappointed that he's not getting porn sex .

You don't talk . He won't be seen out with you so you don't go out except for a walk .

This doesn't sound like much fun to me and it doesn't sounds like a relationship or a partnership . if it's what you want then it's ok , and you don't need the approval of anyone here .

But it doesn't sound like you are happy . If you did dump him, what would you miss ?

If you weren't quite so astonishingly poor, would you change things ? Do your adult children know how hard up you are ?

Kr1stina - it's not quite like that. We spend weekends together sometimes, as I said, I work random shifts and I'm often at work when he's off and vice versa. We try to see each other one evening during the week, but that doesn't always happen because of my hours. And it's not that he won't be seen out with me, so much as he can't seem to walk with me, for whatever reason. We do go out together!

I'm not wildly overjoyed with the relationship as it stands - which is why I'm here, trawling for advice. I want to find a way to make it better (which, I appreciate, does seem to come over as 'make him change').

And if I wasn't so totally financially without any means at all, I'd have far more choice. That's the one thing about money, it might not buy you happiness, but it does buy you choice. So, I don't know, if I was rich whether I'd still be with him. And yes, my adult kids know I'm totally hard up, but what can they do? They have their own lives and I would NEVER expect them to bail me out (besides, it would be constant, I don't earn enough to pay my household bills, let alone anything else).

5 years together and only meeting up every ten days, no affection, no appreciation, in fact you now feel uncomfortable even raising a conversation about it.

I could not stand the walking in front, that is incredibly rude and selfish, in fact I'd refuse to walk with him. He sounds emotionally stunted.

Does he ever take you out, it sounds like a very poor second hand relationship, in other words, shit.

By unconsciously going along with things his way he maybe doesn't realise how you actually feel, you need to tell him whether he wants to hear it or not.

Jan define what you mean by 'taking out'? Very occasionally he will take me to a pub for a meal (during which we don't speak, which is one of the things, oddly, that most enrages me. I hate those couples that go out and never talk over food!) That's pretty much it. When he's at my house I will take him to places rather more often, but he doesn't like going out much (it'll be too crowded'. About everywhere. Any time). I've taken him to the cinema a couple of times. Once he fell asleep during the film. He used to take me out to places walking, or just randomly, but that has fallen by the wayside now.

I don't know about emotionally stunted, but I think he is emotionally retarded, yes. How do I help him grow up?

And we do go on holiday and things together. The every ten days is an average. We used to be together every weekend, but now I have random rotas so I usually work at the weekend.

How do I put it to him? I don't want to sound all 'this is how I want things, shape up or ship out', and I know about using 'I' rather than 'you', but he seems so genuinely terrified of anything concerning emotions (I don't know what he'd do if I burst into tears, for example) that I need to be very matter of fact about how I say it.

Are you sure he is strictly heterosexual? He sounds a bit conflicted and if he works in a male dominated workplace you may be " a token female".

"If I grab his hand he will hold mine back."

Again, OP, in those moments that you're not holding hands ,are you walking next to him expecting him to make the first move, and then making it his responsibility that he is not - all the while that you are not, either? Because surely grabbing someone's hand and having the other person hold it back is called "holding hands", but you seem to be referring to it as an exceptional (i.e. you shouldn't have to be the one do it) move on your part. And 'grabbing' is not a particularly affectionate attitude towards it either.

I'm still holding to the opinion that he's shouldering a lot of your own projections, and that you're both just as non-affectionate as each other.

Ozzie oh, yes, he is absolutely hetero. I think he just thinks he's done the 'dating' bit and now he can settle to life as an old-fashioned male (although he does all his own housework, but he can't cook much). In his world, women are there to look attractive (I fell down on that one, he'd like me to wear skirts and stockings but bugger that) and to do 'women's things', about which men need not concern themselves.

He WILL NOT engage with me physically, in any way, shape or form, to the extent of recoiling if I go to kiss him. No hand holding/sitting next to/snuggling up/kissing/hugging. But he still wants sex - after which we have to leap apart.

I think you need to have the conversation with him OP, if only to rule out that he is not just using you for an occasional shag.

The sitting together in silence a lot looks like you two have nothing to say to each other, it sounds soul destroying, perhaps it's time to call it a day.

OP, I'm inviting you to read back your own words about yourself, if you will. These are direct quotes:

• I've kept quiet
• I don't want 'relationship progression'
• a semi-detached relationship was all I was ever after
• he knows not to pressure me
• maybe I am actually using him
• I rarely intiate, quite honestly I don't care if I never have sex again
• lack of desire
• I probably would have ended the whole thing
• I don't know if I 'love' him
• I am a bit commitmentphobic

You want more physicality alongside all the above? No wonder he might be acting out, ambivalent, and feeling physically awkward - perhaps even impotent.

Isn't it time to accept your role in this too?

gatewalker You may be right. But if it's ALWAYS me that has to take HIS hand? And ALWAYS me that has to try to hug/kiss?

In my last relationship, where my husband was very tactile, I was equally tactile back. So I know I am/can be affectionate and touchy-feely. I feel that when there is nothing coming back I can only put so much effort in before I think 'sod you then'. I can't 'take' his hand, he's too far ahead, 'grabbing' is the only way to get hold of him as he speeds off into the distance!

I hear you, and I also wonder whether you wait for the man to initiate. In other words, you only feel safe if you're responding, rather than being vulnerable. Talking doesn't count, here. I'm referring to physical and emotional vulnerability.

It is very, very hard, if not impossible, to continue to try and relate to someone who has built a wall around themselves. It sounds like he gave up.

gatewalker sorry, cross posted there. I take your point (in your list). But a lot of those things have come about as our relationship has degraded. At first, I used to talk to him about issues, want to move the relationship forward, initiate sex, talk about 'love' and have hopes for us together. But as he's shown less and less interest in me, I've stopped. It's difficult to talk about the future to a man who when, following a 'discussion' about the future and asked what he thinks about it, says 'I think I might get an automatic gear box next time round, I can't be bothered with all this changing gear'. A propos a discussion about OUR FUTURE.

And I'm not saying he's perfect, nor that it's your responsibility alone. But some of the most sobering, painful, and humbling realisations in relationship are the ones where we see how our own actions - or lack of them - have contributed to its breakdown.

I feel this may be a chicken and egg situation. He withdraws as I withdraw, which makes me withdraw further. Ah well.

Then maybe there's a part of you who chooses partners who are avoidant, and whose detachment reveals itself as projections fall and the 'in love' phase passes. And avoidant people attract avoidant and/or clingy people in turn.

gatewalker Interesting. I'm wondering if I 'chose' my current partner because he was so very different to my XH, who was very tactile, affectionate, talkative, emotionally literate. He hurt me very badly, maybe I deliberately set out to find a man as opposite as I could - and therefore ended up with a man who is distant, silent and emotionally retarded?

gatewalker I just read my last post back and it sounded sarcastic - it isn't mean to be, it's a genuine query!

Or maybe I just read with a default 'sarcasm' setting these days....