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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

Hand hold please, this will get nasty

81 replies

jayho · 21/02/2016 18:38

My son told me his father physically assaulted him during contact. He doesn't want to go back 'for a while'.

Ex is EA, FA, extremely manipulative.

I've contacted social services and reported. They are going to risk assess, I think, and get back to me.

Ex is going to go bonkers.

One question, contact was court ordered several years ago, do these orders, like financial orders lapse?

OP posts:
AcrossthePond55 · 27/02/2016 14:06

I think my approach will be that I'm fully supportive of re-building his relationship, what is he going to do to work towards this.

I think this is the right attitude. Especially since DS is getting to the age where his wishes will be taken into account. And especially since he is courageous enough to speak the truth about how his father treats him.

Boy looks like dad btw but is increasingly calling out dad on BS as he gets older which is leading to tension in their relationship.

Well, there you go then. Dad can't stand to hear the truth. Explains his behaviour AND why he's suggested not seeing DS. Truth hurts, doesn't it, especially when it comes from his own child. Much easier to put that child away from him than to act like a responsible adult.

Original poster
jayho · 08/03/2016 22:46

contact is court ordered

ex has told me he wants to see one child but not the other

no suggestion as to how to move things forward with eldest

I've stated that he needs to make a proposal to see both as per order

where do I stand?

OP posts:
Aussiebean · 09/03/2016 00:28

I am afraid I can't offer help just Flowers.
Although my guy says don't slow the youngest to go. If he can treat one son badly he can't treat both badly. And the younger won't have any witnesses or protection from him if it kicks off.

Good luck

Aussiebean · 09/03/2016 00:28

Gut!

Auto correct Blush

Aussiebean · 09/03/2016 00:29

Slow! Allow

Sorry.

Original poster
jayho · 09/03/2016 07:28

thanks aussie, we're at a stalemate, I'm going to have to wait and see if he turns up at school

OP posts:
MumOnTheRunCatchingUp · 09/03/2016 07:44

What do SS/ police say about youngest still attending?

Original poster
jayho · 09/03/2016 18:12

that there are no safeguarding issues but he doesn't want to go, am I expected to force him?

OP posts:
Original poster
jayho · 09/03/2016 18:13

so tonight I collected from school, drove to his house, told youngest he should go and see his father, he refused. What is my responsibility at this point?

OP posts:
Original poster
jayho · 09/03/2016 18:14

Sorry, bit mixed up. So I went back to ex and said he has a court order to see both children so must arrange to see both. He asked me to drop off, I went to house and they refused to leave the car. I called him but he had no suggestion to move it forward.

OP posts:
Goingtobeawesome · 09/03/2016 18:16

Take your son home.

Original poster
jayho · 09/03/2016 18:21

I have, we're at home, they're happy. Technically, I'm in breach of the court order, but are you expected to man-handle your children out of a vehicle?

OP posts:
Original poster
jayho · 09/03/2016 18:23

he's supposed to collect from school but asked me to drop off because at ome level he's ashamed of what he did so I suppose he's also at variance, think I may need to head over to legal

OP posts:
averythinline · 09/03/2016 18:23

Go home with your sons both of them...let him go to court. You have been advised by the Police not the eldest - the youngest refusing- what is a Judge going to say? highly unlikely will make the youngest go not supervised - I would argue youngest intimidated by what happened to eldest.

Do not make him go....

Original poster
jayho · 09/03/2016 18:33

thanks, I know I'm treading a fine line but have been clear that I support safe contact, support him repairing relationship with eldest but that it's his responsibility to make those things happen. I'm not being a barrier to contact. He asked me to take them to his, I did, they refused to get out of the car, I called him, he had no suggestions to move the situation forward so I came home.

I don't think this is all in my court, the boys are available to him, he has to make it work

Or am I being an idiot?

OP posts:
Aussiebean · 09/03/2016 19:09

No. You are protecting your sons.

dunfightin · 09/03/2016 20:42

No contact until police have done what they need to do. Keep in contact with SS and have a talk to school safeguarding officer. Get things in writing, but don't panic.
You have been taken seriously by the authorities and judge won't penalise you for temporary break in contact if that is all it is. Unless you are do this regularly then your record will go in your favour as his will go against him.
Lean on them for support and cut any contact with the ex. No calls, if he must then he emails.
Your standard response is "I have been advised by police and SS that until this has been investigated thoroughly, then there is no contact with either DS."

And you repeat every time. Talk to school about what they can and can't do if ex turns up to school.

I've had to dance around this stuff and bottom line is safety and welfare of child. My local police and SS know the score and have a stack of paperwork with malicious calls from ex, etc, etc, etc. I've been told that if he escalates, then stopping contact is ok. He hovers around the nasty but nothing physical. They also know that kids suss out their parents and when they vote with their feet then there's not a lot you can do except to find out why.

Original poster
jayho · 15/03/2016 20:01

So now I'm a full time single parent.

Police & SS say they have no further role. SS have offered to work with him on a safety plan, he has declined. Says he will manage his relationship with his son himself. This consists of demanding that I make him write a letter of apology and see the error of his ways in making a false allegation against his father. Until he does this he will not see him.

I have politely declined saying that the issues are between the two of them and that it is for the father to resolve.

I am making the children available for contact but no more.

OP posts:
Aussiebean · 16/03/2016 00:16

Well, since he won't do anything to fix his relationship with his sons, maybe it will mean a quieter life for you. Not having to deal with him about contact.

Hopefully you sons will feel relief that they are safe with you and don't have to endure his behaviour.

mix56 · 16/03/2016 07:56

This man sounds vile & will continue to mistreat & manipulate.
Of course he wants a letter from DS, it will be proof for his refutal for SS. but DS is not going to write the letter as it actually happened.
So DS will now not go to X, & probably DS2 will continue to not want to go because they have both seen how nasty he can be.
You need to get some advice legally, of scenario, How to FORCE your children to see him if they are refusing. (I think you are being very reasonable)

Original poster
jayho · 16/03/2016 09:20

Thanks Mix my understanding is that I am obliged to make the children available for contact. So, for example, he should have had contact on a midweek night last week. He is supposed to collect from school. He asked me to take them to his. As a courtesy, I did. The children refused to get out of the car. I called him and said I was outside, he hung up on me. He has asked me to do the same this week. I have pointed out that I work full time and so can't collect at 3.20, he will have to make childcare arrangements and I will deliver when I finish work. No response.

OP posts:
bibliomania · 16/03/2016 09:45

Best possible outcome is if your ex decides he doesn't want any further contact. The logistics are going to be a pain while you transition to doing the full-time care yourself, but the best thing for the longer-term.

If your ex isn't pushing for contact, you don't need to worry about breaching the court order. If he starts demanding unsupervised contact, you can apply to the court yourself for a variation of the existing order. I googled an online guide and did it myself. It cost around £240 but I didn't pay court fees.

What I hope your ex doesn't do is keep taking out your DS2 and making him into the Golden Child - can make for a damaging dynamic between the two brothers.

mix56 · 16/03/2016 13:47

Sounds like he will do nothing at all & you will get left with a child care problem at 3.20.
No point in delivering them after work if they refuse to get out of the car. He will already have defaulted on his responsibility if he doesn't collect them from school.

UrbanSunday · 16/03/2016 14:17

You need to make an application to the Court to vary the existing order. At the first hearing date you can explain to the Court why contact is not taking place and the order can be suspended whilst investigations take place to find out what level of contact is in the best interests of your children. This is the correct legal way forward and means you won't be criticised if he makes an application to enforce the order.

Original poster
jayho · 16/03/2016 16:46

he has collected one and not the other

OP posts:
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