please advise me on how best to deal with my critical mother

[ConkersDontScareSpiders]

Long, sorry!
My mother has always been immensely critical (of me and about most people in general). As she has always been this way I hadn't really noticed until my late twenties but for the last 5 or 6 years, I suppose since I have got older and developed a bit more self confidence (probably via holding a more senior position at work where my opinion is respected, and developing longer standing friendships in which we don't slate each other), and also observing my friends relationships with their own dm's, I have come to realise this might not be normal.
She will criticise me over anything and everything.A conversation this morning for example went like this:
Me, doing my online shop "oh good the porridge I like is on offer"
Dm "well why do you buy the sachets, that's ridiculous, it's far cheaper and better to buy the large bag of oats" (said in a withering tone)
Me: "well because I grab it as I'm running out in the morning and eat it at work so it's easier than measuring and decanting"
Dm "that's ridiculous..." Etc etc for 10 mins...
When I am with her every second conversation, about anything and everything,is some variation of that.
Since I have been young she has been critical of my weight (currently size 10, "bit chunky", my hair, my grades, (I remember calling her to say I got 9 a's and a 'd'in my gsce's and her first reaction being 'well you'll have to resit that d), later on my job, the house we had bought, things we were doing with the kids etc etc. All fairly low level but just constant.
I have recently been through a separation from dh (who dm loved). Of course that sent her into overdrive to the point of her actually being quite nasty to me and going out of her way to side with h.I have found this to be very hurtful and went low contact with her for a while as every conversation ended with me in tears, at a time when things were already hard enough. dm said she found it hurtful that I never told her things anymore, but I just couldn't talk to her for a while without facing a barrage of negativity. I am relatively successful at my job, have an ok house, beautiful funny and clever DD's...I might have failed at being married but that wasn't all my fault.Im just not sure what else I can do to stop her constantly knocking me.
I have tried to keep a relationship with her for the sake of the DD's who love her (she is a good nan to them), for my Dad who is something of an eccentric and who doesn't seem to see any of it (and if he did,having been raised in an army family is very stiff upper lip anyway), and for me, as I don't want to lose my Mum.
The other thing to note is that my Mum has never in my lifetime ever admitted to being wrong about anything.It is therefore nigh on impossible to raise this with her calmly as she just gets massively defensive.
Mostly I just grit my teeth and try and ignore it but it does get to me. She is at home now looking after my kids as its half term and I am at work (and I know im very lucky to have her offer to do this), but I am actually dreading going home to spend the evening with her.
Has anyone any advice on how I can make her cut out the criticism a little bit?

Aussiemum-very similar reaction to my marriage breaking up from my mum, and then as you say,not the same reaction from her when other close family members have divorced.Very hard not to compare her reactions and wonder why she is so hard on me when what I actually needed was some emotional support.She offered practical support which I largely turned down because I didn't want the barrage of criticism that would come with it.She was then angry and accused me of blocking her out because I hadn't 'let her help me'.
I once tried saying something similar to that to her Spandex.She made a very angry and sarcastic remark about me watching too much tv and being an armchair psychologist and told me to stop talking rubbish! So it wasn't a success really.
Since I've noticed how much more negative she is than other people, Ive always assumed that she doesn't have any idea how hurtful she is being.Lately I'm beginning to wonder, which is adding a whole new dimension to how sad it is.I had told myself I was over reacting and being over sensitive to her due to my own personality, as maybe I take things to heart to much.As a test I once made a quick note on my phone of all the negative comments she made to me over an 8 hour period.( I know this makes me sound totally bonkers, but I just had to be sure it wasn't all in my head-i don't usually go around recording aspects of conversations I have with people!). She averaged 3 critical comments or reactions an hour. I don't know if I felt better for seeing on paper that it might not be me blowing it out of proportion or more cross with myself for stooping to the level of making the list in the first place!
I will give those books on self esteem and toxic parenting a go.
Thanks all

"She is great nan to my girls and they love her and my dad, and I wouldn't want them to miss out on that.so far she isn't that critical of them, although she has started to talk about some of their behaviour negatively to me-but again that's more critical of me and my parenting so far,than directly critical of them".

Conkers,

She is already starting on them via you; they will be affected in similar ways to how you were and are to this very day. They see their nan criticising you as their mum. Your mother left you with a lack of emotional security and they will start to feel very uncertain around their nan if they do not already.

Its not your fault your mother is like this, her own family did that lot of damage to her. Your mother never wanted to seek the necessary help.

You are really now seeing her for what she really is. The realisation that parents were not ideal at all often and only comes about when their adult children become parents themselves. You would never treat your children in the same ways your mother has done to you. She was not a good parent to you, what makes you think that she at all will be a decent grandparent figure to your children?.

Her behaviour re wanting to see your ex H and going to dinner with him is frankly appalling and certainly not the actions of a loving parent. These two I would think are two peas from the same rotten pod, she sees a kindred spirit in him. It is also not worth showing your girls that this is how people are treated in relationships, not good at all. Do not entertain these two together ever again!. I would also cut back the visits; once every 8 weeks is still too often given her levels of negativity.

I would not let your dad off the hook here; he has enabled his wife throughout out of self preservation and want of a quiet life. He is truly a weak man who has failed to protect you from your mother's mad excesses of behaviour.

Unfortunately conkers you lucked out in the parent lottery; you will ultimately need to grieve for the relationship you should have had with them rather than the one you actually got. Some grandparents really should not have access to their grandchildren.

I don't agree that your mum will necessarily turn against your girls, I think she may try to turn them against you or alternatively may set one up as the 'golden child' and scapegoat the other. What I don't believe is that she'll be able to retain a normal and healthy relationship with them whilst treating you so badly.

I think there is a big difference between someone who is constantly negative about everything, always, and someone who targets a specific person (esp one they should love and protect) for emotional abuse. The former is bad but a certain amount of ignoring and some calling out about the relentless negativity can help stem the flow. The latter is very hard to handle, esp for their victim but really can you cope with another 20 years of swallowing her bile?

Perhaps you need to prioritise your feelings a bit more in your interactions with her?

You're only on the defensive if you're invested.

My mother was not a particularly good mother, but she is an amazing grandmother as none of the issues that occurred in the relationship with my sister and me are present in her relationship with the gc.

She's also grown up a lot.

My sister was the golden child, I was the scapegoat, but this pattern isn't present with any of her gc.

My mother is like this - after years of letting her get to me I now call her out on every occasion that she oversteps the mark "Did you mean to be so rude?" "Do you know how rude that sounds?" etc etc. I pull her up immediately, often mid-flow and she now stops. When I first started doing this, she often kept going so I would just walk out or put the phone down and then not contact her. She has learnt over time that I am not prepared to listen to her criticisms. I don't confide in her and have had to ask my children not to tell her certain things. It's sad and I wish she was different but it is so much easier for me now I have set my boundaries.

I have tried to learn from her poor example and try to support my DC without being interfering and critical.

My mum has some lovely qualities but she has always been very critical of me and my siblings. I did really well at school and went to Oxbridge but she was always "you got 98%, well what did you get wrong". Nothing I did was ever good enough.

As an adult, I've found I can handle her for the most part and she isn't half as bad as she used to be. Not sure if others would think this advisable but:

I once visited her, she lived two hours away, and she started berating me (over something my DSis had done!). I just walked out and drove home, was in the house for about five minutes. She was stunned.

She now lives abroad and once I simply brought my flight forward and left when she pushed it too far. Life is just too short for that crap.

And DP always massively praises me to the hilt when she starts making negative digs in front of him, which stops her in her tracks.

My DM is a bit like this as well. In fact I only recently realised that she speaks to me in a way that woulndt dream of speaking to anyone else, it's not overt crticism but much more subtle and designed to chip away at my confidence. She has very poor boundaries (think barging into my bedroom when I was getting dressed and refusing to knock etc), and takes horrendous offence if I ever disagree with her or call her out on bad behaviour. She is another one who is always right and if proven wrong she was go into a huge sulk and ignore you for hours. It's pathetic.

Challenging her is too much like hard work so I ignore her now. Any negativity is immediately shut down.

She was parented a similar way herself, and all her siblings have similarly shit boundaries and a need to try and control their grown up kids.

My dm is very, very critical. I too got the "why did you not get 100 per cent" when I'd got 98, or wanting to know my position in the class.

My DH doesn't earn enough (she doesn't buy the story that I earn more). My house is messy. I drink too much (open a bottle on Friday; finish on Sunday. With help from dh and not every weekend at that). My car is messy. I should have a different car. We should go on the type of holidays they like.

She's always been critical of my appearance. I was tubby as a child and didn't I know it. She never went to any effort to find nice clothes, I just had to wear things that fitted. She believed, and still does, that fat people shouldn't look nice.

I can't recall her ever telling me I look nice. I'm not tubby now but I'm still not skinny enough for her. It's exhausting.

problembottom

You employed exactly the same tactics as me.

A large part of the battle is having the confidence to have a zero tolerance policy until parent learns to behave themselves, and the indifference to ignore any backsliding.

OP you need to take control of the relationship, set boundaries, make clear what is not acceptable.

I think it's far more rewarding to take charge of a relationship than to cut a family member off (tho that's necessary in cases of abuse) because you learn self-development and life skills along the way.

It's far more satisfying to conquer a situation than retreat from it.

You just need to repeatedly point out that she's criticising every time and ring off/stop contact for a whole if she continues. It could take months to break the habit. One challenge and being called an armchair psychologist is not enough.

This sounds sooooo familiar. My dm was exactly like this. Constantly critical; nothing I ever did was good enough. I didn't realise the ramifications of her behaviour until she was gone. All my life I have had low expectations of how people behave towards me and I'm sure now that this is directly related to how she was towards me. I'm not sure why, but on some level I was simply not what she wanted. It's hard to accept that the one person whom you expect to love you unconditionally simply isn't on your side..

I agree that you need to take control. Call her on her judginess, and tell her in no uncertain terms to butt out of your business if you have to.

Ive been NC with my critical, udgmental self-absorbed, narcissistic mother for 2 years now, and wish Id done it sooner, instead of having years of her aiming to make her daughters feel like shit. None of this viciousness was directed towards my brothers, I might add.

It's far more satisfying to conquer a situation than retreat from it

Sounds nice in theory Twinkle but in reality it won't work for all. Id rather leap from the nearest window than learn self-development and life skills via keeping someone in my life who means me no good and just makes life shit in general. Whats the reward? "winning?"

There are other ways to make life rewarding, such as learning you don't always have to be the bigger person, blood is not thicker than water actually, and you don't have to be bound to a relative whose life purpose is to make you feel rotten, at all. You can simply walk away. Give yourself the peace you deserve no less than anyone else. Take back your power by taking away their outlet

Worked for me. We all find our ways

Never ever again agree to take her out with your ex-H!

'Well, mum if you miss him you can it touch with him yourself but you are supposed to be my mum, not his'
'No, I know you miss him but I can't stand him. That's why I divorced him, remember?'
and so on and so on

My mum does criticism a lot. She doesn't even know she does it. But she does it a lot less now than she used to as I started pointing it out - she's genuinely nice and had no idea. Her parents used to do it to her too.

If your mum is genuinely nice, she'll find it hard and be defensive but at heart, not want to upset you because she loves you. If she isn't genuinely nice, well then she's not that nice a gran either.

Twinklestein

Re your comments:-

"A large part of the battle is having the confidence to have a zero tolerance policy until parent learns to behave themselves, and the indifference to ignore any backsliding.

OP you need to take control of the relationship, set boundaries, make clear what is not acceptable".

Unfortunately there are problems with your approach ideal as it would be however, for family members who are at heart reasonable.

Such parents like the OPs never ever learn to behave themselves because they never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. A person simply cannot apply "normal" rules of familial interactions to situations where the family of origin is dysfunctional and has been for many years going back a generation or three.

Setting boundaries with such people is also problematic mainly because people like Conkers have never been encouraged to set any for their own self and also because the parent has always been in control of the relationship. Such people get trained purely and simply to serve the parents needs. Conkers has herself been left with an overall lack of emotional security and that in itself is damaging. Its not just a question either of simply ignoring such comments; she remembers hurtful stuff that her mother said to her years ago. This all sticks in the mind and reinforces her own "not good enough" opinion.

OP - you would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, family are not binding and your mother is really no different.

The reward is overcoming a situation completely. Growing in strength, self confidence to the point that other peoples' opinions and criticism don't affect you. (I don't include valid criticism in that clearly).

You're still in a place apparently where this woman has the power to make you 'feel rotten' and make 'life shit', to the point that you have to avoid her. That's a vulnerable, disempowered, wounded place. And if she can do it, it means other people could too. You need to heal the wound whether you see her or not. (I don't give a shit either way). But I can tell you it's worth overcoming the power she has over you.

Btw I never said that you have to be a 'bigger person', 'blood's thicker than water', or that you have to feel 'bound' to anyone. You're reading into my posts stuff that's simply not there.

Sometimes self preservation however is the way forward for people and there is nothing wrong with that course of action.

It is very hard to start setting boundaries with a parent when the now adult child has not been actively encouraged to maintain any or to have very low expectations resulting from a lack of emotional security.

Going no contact with a relative is a decision that in my experience is a decision never taken at all lightly or made without much soul searching. What about the rights of the OP to say enough and no more?. Surely that is in itself empowering?.

Her parents had their whole lives to make a positive difference when it came to the OP. They made their choices.

Twinklestein

Im not reading anything thats not there I simply said my perspective from a situation Ive been in. I said what I found works for me thats entirely different from saying "YOU said this", isn't it - don't make it all about you when you can clearly read, and know it wasn't.

Thanks for the textbook preaching though... all that "still in a place" & "vulnerable" Im 52 years old with my own DCs and family unit soon to be a grandmother. 4 lovely brothers and still friends with women I was friends with 40 years ago.& my dad's pretty ok - he isnt with my mum anymore but is close with all his children. I am lucky, and I count my blessings because it could be a whole lot worse. Im not about to negate all that by handwringing about people who mean me no good, instead of focusing on people who do.

I don't believe in reincarnation, hence I actively don't waste this 1 life on people who are out to make others not feel good. Not in RL, and not on here there's always some know-it-all that lands with sniping thinly disguised as advice

They remind me of a certain types of women

Ah well, time to hide this thread methinks, its OPs thread and I prefer not to get into derailment

Attila

All families are dysfunctional in some way. I can't think of many that have no dysfunction in them. I don't think 'normal rules of familial interactions' exist tbh.

My parents have certainly never apologised for the past or taken responsiblity for it - but I don't care either way. What someone said in 1977 is irrelevant.

I think it's really important that OP develops emotional security and a part of that is to realise you don't need other people to be ok, and you don't need their good opinion. Particularly not your parents. Negativity is all about the person giving it out, not about anyone else.

For many people their view of themselves derives from other people's opinions, or rather their impression of those opinions, and that makes them very vulnerable.

OP needs to strengthen her sense of self, with therapy if necessary. She needs to get over the 'hurtful stuff' said in the past, and incorrect inference that she is therefore 'not good enough'.

Everyone has to learn to set boundaries at some point so she might as well start now. Relationship patterns tend to get repeated with different people and that's why it's important to flush out unhelpful formations.

Life throws up challenges and they can all be used to make you stronger.

DeeCee

I'm not sure what to make of your ramble, but fwiw I'm not preaching I'm just giving a different opinion.

I really don't care what other people choose to do in their lives, I'm just saying the OP has more than one option.

I wonder if overly critical parents are seeing "failures" e.g. getting 98% as a failure on their own part? My mum has eased off a bit now I'm older but I felt that I wasn't allowed to make mistakes as a teenager as I was an extension of her. Any mistakes that my brother may have made were laughed off, whereas I was expected to be perfect. Although I've been called boring if I'm too perfect. She is a good grandparent but I'd be more wary if I'd had girls. I find myself tensing up if some of the language she uses to DS could be in any way construed as critical, although it's probably quite innocent.

Anyway, in terms of practicalities I try to close down conversations if they're going anywhere near the critical route. I'll say things like "oh, really?" or "oh, right" and then move onto something else. Or "hmm, I'm not sure, I'll think about it". If necessary I don't offer as much detail as I might have done in the past. If I'm nagged about something I'll often just lie and say that I've done it. Occasionally I will say "I'd rather not talk about that right now". Admittedly the other week I lost it a bit and said "I know, I made a mistake but can you stop going on about it for fuck sake". I wasn't proud of that but it did have impact and it worked!

I'm wondering if there is a gender angle to parental criticism. I was criticised a lot by my late mother, sometimes quite nastily (like being blamed for my dd being ill) whilst my cousin, who was always a bit molly-coddled, received no criticism at all, even though he was a demanding, attention-seeking pita.

Perhaps more is expected of girls (particularly by mothers)?

OP needs to strengthen her sense of self, with therapy if necessary. She needs to get over the 'hurtful stuff' said in the past, and incorrect inference that she is therefore 'not good enough'

This is so super hard though. If you've spent your entire life being picked at and being told - sometimes straight out - that you're not good enough then strengthening one's sense of self through therapy is really hard fucking work.

Conkers - my mother is a wanker, a truly spiteful, nasty woman to me. Not to my sisters or to other people, but she is to me. I've had the "what did you get wrong" when I got 99% in an exam, comments about my weight (she's obese, I'm not), comments about others' weight (Stacey Solomon on the x-factor's "thunder thighs") and such a lack of respect. In more ways than I can list. I don't have any advice, but I know thanks to Mumsnet that there are many of us who have been abused by our parents and it's their fault and their problem and not ours.

Sorry I can't give constructive help - my parents haven't spoken to me since 14 November (my Dad slammed the phone down on me when I asked for the umpteenth time to not speak about food with me as I'm anorexic) and I know it's because they're "punishing" me. I'm wavering now but I am trying not to do the "Sweary is obviously at fault, it's always her fault, so she must fix it" dance. It's so hard. So you have my utmost sympathy.

"I once tried saying something similar to that to her Spandex.She made a very angry and sarcastic remark about me watching too much tv and being an armchair psychologist and told me to stop talking rubbish! So it wasn't a success really."

Try a shorter sentence. I can see why someone would feel patronised by a long-winded "when you do X, it makes me feel Y, which makes me want to Z" sidehead

You could try saying "that was rude" or simply, "sorry, what did you say?" to buy a little time and break her flow. When she repeats it you will have more time and mental space in the conversation to let her know why you didn't like it/it offended you etc.