Stuck in a miserable marriage, desperate for help

[Mamaka]

I'm in a miserable marriage. We met 7 years ago and married 2 years later. Both of us were, I would say, vulnerable and a bit confused when we met, and thought the other one was solving all of our own problems. We now have 2 children and it is plain to see that not only are we completely mismatched but we really bring out the worst in each other. We fight a lot, he is passive aggressive and refuses to communicate with me, I get into a rage at him, he calls me crazy, I scream awful things at him...it goes on and on. Sometimes this happens in front of the children.
I know it sounds like we should go our separate ways but both of us are determined to stick it out for the sake of our kids. We both grew up in dysfunctional families and don't want to repeat that. We really do want them to have two loving parents but just can't figure it out.
Two nights ago he woke me up to whisper to me that he hated me. This was the last straw for me, this is the worst it has ever been, and all day yesterday I thought about divorce and escape and a fresh start. Last night he apologised to me and said his mood is all over the place and he can't get a grip on his feelings. To be honest I have also felt like I've hated him in the past and I have probably shouted it at him too. It just shocked me when he said it to me as he is usually so non communicative. It felt really final.
To list a few of our problems:
We don't communicate effectively. He says I talk/nag too much. He doesn't talk at all and withdraws, goes on phone obsessively, etc whether things are going well or badly.
We don't really enjoy sex together. I don't feel attracted to him and often have sex out of a feeling of duty, and also because he's nice to me the next day (I am aware how this sounds).
We don't agree on anything. Often one of us just gives in to the other to avoid fighting but it always ends up coming up again later on.
He uses things I say against me so I feel I have to watch everything I say.
I'm making him sound horrific - but I really think I am just as bad to him. This is what I mean by we bring out the worst in each other. In other relationships, friends and family etc, I am really very nice, quite funny, a great listener and a loyal friend! But these qualities seem to disappear the second I step in the house.
I feel miserable and lonely and like I'm on the verge of doing something I will really regret (not like harming myself, more like leaving or having an affair or something).
Please help. I will take any advice but please be gentle. I'm not in a good place.

That's in hindsight. We've been divorced for many years now.
We probably could have worked it out.

Sorry, I don't have any contacts for couples counselling. I've been to Relate once with my first husband and IIRC twice with DH. I've only ever done one session - usually it's an assessment and then a wait for therapy and by the time the therapy appointment came round we either felt differently or had given up. It's also tricky with childcare. If we needed it again (which God forbid), I would look into private counselling.

You could start another thread saying 'I need to find a couples counsellor, any recommendations?'

I think there is a huge difference between people who have given up and checked out of the marriage, which can often be quite a pleasant environment, quiet, polite etc, and people having screaming rows - there's still something to row about, ergo there is something there to work on.

Mamaka,

re your comment:-
"I realise we are modelling a dysfunctional relationship. But isn't there some way we can turn it around"

No, unless both of you are willing and able to a) face up to your own responsibilities in making the relationship the ways it now is and b) both of you unlearning all the crap you learnt about relationships from your parents to this point. It will involve a lot of time along with hard and painful work.

Two questions you should also give serious consideration to:-
What do you get out of this relationship now?. You get something out of this, both of you do.

What do you both want to teach your children about relationships here and what are they learning from the two of you now?.

Both of you had dysfunctional role models of relationships shown to you; it is of no real surprise that you are modelling similar now. No-one ever bothered to show you what a mutually respectful relationship is and you are certainly not showing that to your children now. You have a chance to stop the cycle altogether.

Staying for the children basically also teaches them that a loveless marriage is their "norm" as well. They cannot and must never be used as the glue to bind you and he together.

OP, most people start with Relate but our couples counsellor was recommended by a friend of my mum's. Maybe ask about, there might be friends or family who've done it but you don't know about it? Lots of people feel embarrassed or even ashamed about going to couples counselling, I guess spilling your guts to a stranger is not for everyone. I was resistant and didn't want to go initially. But as others have said its all about unlearning unhealthy relationship patterns. If both you and DH are willing to listen and learn and have preconceptions challenged, it's definitely doable. Good luck!

It doesn't sound like neither of you are taking any responsibility for your relationship. Your kids are supposedly what keeps you together and your parents are responsible for fucking you up in the first place.

If you don't like each other than what is the motivation to stay? 'Staying for the kids' sounds more like an excuse than motivation, especially coupled with the statement of possibly ending up in another toxic relationship, as a reason for staying in your current toxic relationship.

If you believe that your parents marriage was a bad role model for you growing up, then you must accept that your marriage is a bad relationship model for your children, whilst they are growing up. To break a cycle you first have to accept your responsibility for perpetuating it.

What is stopping you from going to solo counselling?

You're blatantly not compatible and shouldn't be together. By all means try counselling but you can't turn a sows ear into a silk purse

Do people really think divorce is a preferable option? If I think about my future without my husband, I see that my kids will desperately miss him, won't understand why we couldn't try harder to work things out, I will be more stressed due to having even less time, money, energy which will make me an even worse parent....the list goes on! I haven't yet booked us in for any counselling as there is no money (I mean literally, there is currently £100 in our account and the clutch has just gone on the car and the boiler broken). My area it seems doesn't offer sliding scale charges at Relate. Does anyone know if the NHS offer couples counselling? Bit unlikely I know.
I just think, it's not as simple as leaving. It won't actually solve the problem it will just mask it for a while.

Just found out that Relate offer 6 discounted sessions (£20 each) if you're on low income, tax credits etc. Now just need to find babysitter!

For your marriage work, there has to be more motivation than the fear of messing up your kids and considering the current toxic situation is already taking care of that, then it's very difficult to see what you can build on.

Other than your children, what is it about your relationship that gives you hope of a future together?

Of course its not as simple as leaving, but yes, it sounds like divorce is a preferable option.
2 parents living peacefully apart is better for children than parents together in a toxic environment, screaming at each other all the time. You say you want to stick it out, but do you love him? It doesn't sound like it. And without that, you haven't a hope.
Personally I would be using counselling sessions to find a way to end the marriage positively and plan ahead.

That's fantastic that you can access some discounted sessions at Relate. I'd get into that asap. Wanting things to change is a great place to start, although this might be the beginning of a very long and painful journey, that might end up in separation being the outcome. But hopefully at least you can learn what not to bring into a future relationship if that's the case. Well done for seeking change for your kids and yourself.

That's great! Keeping my fingers crossed for you x

The most chilling part of your post (to me), was that he woke you up, to whisper to you that he hated you.

I don't know if counselling will work. If you do try it and it doesn't help, then just be aware that people separate all the time, and they survive. Many go on to have much more fulfilling relationships, after they have ended a bad one.

We're booked in for our initial appointment with Relate tonight, a friend's daughter is babysitting. I'm terrified in case it makes things worse. Any experience of relate counselling here?

Thanks for the encouragement xxx

This is going to sound negative, but that's not how it's meant: how on earth could it make things worse? It represents an effort to really address the problem, which can only be a good thing. Don't see how staying in the setup as it is could be worse than what comes out of counselling. Even if you separate after this, you'll know you gave it a shot. The one thing I would say is that in my experience, you may well feel worse immediately coming out of a session, because you've just aired difficult things and it may feel a bit 'should have just not rocked the boat' in an awkward silence driving home. But that's similar to the way you can feel a bit off immediately after a flu jab but long term, it'll do you good.

Thank you tendonqueen x

The encouraging thing is it sounds like you BOTH want to make it work, relate generally seems a useful forum as people seem to find it easier to convey uncomfortable stuff in front of a third party, who will also ensure things don't get too heated.

Good luck you marriage may not work but you owe it to aeach other to exhaust attempts trying before you walk away.

Good luck for tonight! My DH and I are going through this at the moment. We have inflicted a lot of pain on each other because of our own issues that we had before we got together. The process breaks you down completely and it is very painful. Trust it. Listen to what is being said and read what you are recommended. Take it in and face your demons. And then, you will be able to feel in control of your feelings. Your DH will hopefully feel the same. And then you can grow together.
We are at the very beginning of this and we are already communicating more than we have for years. It will take some time, but if both of you are fully committed to your relationship, it will work out. If he is not, it doesn't matter because through this, you will be able to handle it and not be miserable anymore.
Big hugs

Indiejonas, that was just what I needed to hear! I am really happy we're actually doing it. Do I need to prepare? I don't want to get there unprepared and start blabbering uselessly. Really want to make the most of it.

So we had our first Relate session last night. I had very low expectations as I really didn't think my husband would even talk. But he did and we got a lot of stuff out and the counsellor was fantastic - so straightforward and direct which was ideal for us. It was like she could help us to see things that we've been going over for years in a new light. Afterwards we talked a bit more and he agreed for the first time EVER to put effort into changing and improving the relationship (until now he has been adamant that he "shouldn't have to change"). I also agreed on no more shouting, at anyone, at all.
I have to call this afternoon to book in the next 5 sessions.
Feeling really grateful and pleasantly surprised and hopeful!

Thank you so much to everyone on this thread who encouraged me to go for counselling. Xxx

Oh that's fantastic, I'm so pleased you had a good experience. And thanks for letting us know. You might need more than the 5 sessions (a lot more!) and it still might not work out that staying together is for the best. But it's great that you both wanted to go and were able to make use of it, and have got somewhere to start with trying to improve things. It can be so exhilarating to think that things can change. Really good luck for the future (let us know how it goes).

Yay to Mamaka!
So pleased that you and your DH took the first step. It's tough, but worth it and both of you will come across emotions and try to blame each other on why you behaved the way you did. Don't get angry. Don't rise to the bait. Please trust the process! Crying and being blubbering mess in the sessions or during your conversations with your DH should not matter one little bit.
You sounded so miserable in your OP and you are taking steps to make yourself and your relationship better. You should be so proud of yourself as many people at the point you were at don't seek help and throw in the towel. Well done! It's not going to be easy, as I said before, but so so worth it.