Division of labour

[CauliflowerBalti]

How does it work in your house?

We both work full time - but I run my own small (very busy) business and work from home. This creates a huge imbalance. Because I am here, I seem to naturally do more. Much much more. This is my working environment. I find it hard to focus when balls of dog hair are drifting about, or I can't get to the kitchen tap to fill the kettle because of all the dishes. I could leave some of the chores. I don't.

However.

My partner says he does as much as he can but he's Out Of The House All Day. He doesn't do as much as he can though, because he values his relaxation time and personal space. He will do anything I ask, but if I don't ask, he won't do it. He will come home and relax.

So as it stands, he cooks an evening meal 2 nights a week and clears up after dinner most evenings.

I do the rest of the cooking, all washing/drying/ironing/putting away, hoovering, mopping, empty the dishwasher in the morning, take stuff out to recycling, put the bins out, feeding, cleaning and exercising the (many) animals, sort out the online food shop and put it away, pick up the bits we need in the week from the shop, tidy, change the beds, change the towels, do homework, put boy to bed, get him up and out ready for school, take him to school and collect him, deal with all the school admin/fucking dress up days etc... Basically, everything else. All the doing takes ages - but it's not that. I feel solely responsible for the house. I can ask him, and he will do, but then I have to think to ask, and there's just so much to think about on top of running a Limited Company.

This is about the only thing we argue about. We are due to try and have a sensible discussion about it. We've only recently moved in together. Previously he lived alone - as he has for most of his adult life - and cooked/cleaned/washed etc. I know he can do it. My son isn't his, so some of the parenting-type chores will naturally migrate. But I think we need some clarity around Roles and Responsibilities (ha!). I am not a house elf and I don't want to be responsible for everything. It was OK when I was on my own. There was no-one else to do it. Doing it now while a grown adult watches. No.

So how does it all work in your relationship?

I stayed with my ex for four years!
He was selfish in other ways, not just housework etc
I look back and think why did i spend so long with him??
Who knows, i cant even answer that

Yup...been there. No point in trying to answer that one... sounds like you have a keeper now though, which is the main thing. Lesson well learned!

This isn't going well, people. We are currently not speaking to each other. I feel he should contribute equally, he feels he is giving as much as he possibly can, I used to do it all on my own before I met him so what's different?

We shouted at each other, we said sorry. We carried on arguing in bed. We aren't speaking to each other. Great.

Maybe if you worked in an out of the home office space he would get it a bit better?

Personally id kick the fucker out - anyone who I.know wouldnt deal with our baby in the night is not someone id want to have babies with.

I used to do it all on my own before I met him so what's different?

Don't tell me he actually said this OP? OMG.

It looks like you're getting your answer - he doesn't see why he should do it, and he doesn't seem open to any of your arguments

Your relationship has become completely unbalanced.

Your workload has increased from looking after 2 people and a household to looking after 3 people and a household. Your life has got much harder.

His workload has dwindled to practically nothing. He doesn't even really have to look after himself now (you are doing all laundry, cleaning and most of the cooking) and he now doesn't have a household to look after. His life has got much easier.

And the worst thing about all of this? He sees this very clearly and thinks that it is absolutely fine.

I'm on mat leave just now so I'm doing a bit more around the house, but in general;

Laundry is my domain.
Bins, compost (goes out daily)
Hoovering: robohoover
Cooking: roughly 50:50
Baby wrangling: he does as much as he can when he's home, but as I'm on mat leave obviously I'm doing that all day
General admin, bills, paperwork: mainly dh as he's fluent in the local language and I'm not
General cleaning and tidying: split 50:50 Ish. One distracts the baby while other has a whip round the kitchen and puts the dishwasher on.

It's vital, utterly vital, that one partner doesn't feel like a skivvy. If you share a home you share the work .

Do not have children with this man until he gets his act together because believe you me, twenty years of this shit will kill any love you have. I've read research that shows a bigger indicator of divorce is these multiple small things rather than one big thing.

A man who will leave you to do the housework while you're both working full time is not respecting you. You need to sit down and list out the chores. Assign each one a rough time per day/week. Assign each to a person.

Sort it out at the start.

He did indeed say that, Hillfarmer. Imagine my joy. IMAGINE.

The thing is, he is essentially a fairly decent man. We've just exchanged messages and he is desperately sorry, willing to do anything to make amends, agrees we should have a rota so he knows he is fulfilling his obligations to me. So on the face of it, everything is fine and rosy.

Except I don't think he sees that he was being unreasonable. He will do what I ask because he loves me, he will do these irrational, unreasonable household chores for me, not because he believes that this is what an adult that successfully adults should do.

And that matters to me. I don't want him to help, I want him to want to help for the right reasons.

Yeah. I know.

He really wants a baby. Says he can think of no better mother for his child. It does make my heart sink right now.

He is scared that you are going to kick him out. That his responsibility-free life at yours is coming crashing down and then he'd have to look after himself and a house again. God forbid, eh?

If you are doing everything in the house and he spends his free time relaxing then clearly you are not getting great quality time as a couple. And when you do finally sit down you are probably exhausted. Doesn't that bother him at all? That his refusal to do his share means that you can't do fun, nice or relaxing things together as a couple?

DP and I sometimes have a two-hour blitz on a Saturday morning when we both tackle the house at the same time. We then reward ourselves with a nice lunch out somewhere.

A decent person would want to reduce your burden; not add to it.

Has he ever said anything like "I know you've been really busy working all week at home, why don't you go meet some friends for lunch at a nice restaurant on Sunday while I sort the house out and exercise the animals? Go and enjoy yourself while I hold the fort". Has he ever offered to do something like that?

He has shifted from being a 'good man' into a 'fairly decent' one

I think he honestly believes, despite his feminist proclaimations, that housework is womans work.

I cannot believe that he said that he couldnt understand what was different because you were doing it all before! Did you point out that previously HE was 'doing it all' and now he isnt doing buck shit?

He needs to understand that it isnt doing you a favour, its taking responsibility for helping to run a household, as an equal partner - same as a child - it wouldnt be 'helping' with a baby, 'babysitting' 'giving you some time off', it would be called being a parent.

His home, he needs to pull his weight - his child, he needs to take an equal role

Do you think he can get that? Do it willingly? Do it without feeling that he is doing you a massive favour and you owe him?

In fairness to him, kidnapped, he has said things like that. And he would do it. But it would be an out-of-the-ordinary gift to me, that would require special acknowledgement and thanks - while he goes to stay with his friends/goes away with them on holiday and that is Just A Thing.

It all blew up yesterday precisely because, by time I sat down at 3pm to spend time as a couple (the boy was at his Dad's this weekend), I was exhausted and seething with resentment. He had slept through half the day and sat watching me for the rest. I cleared the kitchen, everything was good, went upstairs to get some washing, came downstairs and there was a load of stuff on the kitchen side. to go out to the recycling bin (approx 5 steps away from where he had deposited it). I lost my temper... It's bad enough sitting watching me do it. But then dumping a load of shit in 15 seconds after I've done... No. It is at least 2 hours before anyone can do that without me erupting.

I should point out that my child is from a previous relationship.

Does he see it as his responsibility, his equal responsibility? No. He sees that he is out of the house for 12 hours a day, and that is enough. He should get to come home and relax after working so hard, and that weekends are for relaxing and recuperating. I think that is his view, and I think anything he does additionally following this will be 'for me', to stop me shouting at him.

That is what he just said, actually. He'll be doing it to stop me being upset with him, not because he sees it as his responsibility.

I don't know how to change that, and I gather from my friends that it is a fairly common male attitude. My friend often freaks out because her DH hoovers the stairs 'for her'.

Your last two posts have made up my mind about him.

Kick him out - he is bloody awful. You don't want your son picking up his blatant disrespect towards you.

You need to make sure your DP understands that he will not be 'helping you'; he will be sharing the jobs.
Sometimes one of a couple (usually men but I've seen some woman admit to being the "man" on other threads) just doesn't see the mess, the things that need doing. I suspect this is selective blindness but for whatever reason I've found that writing a list of things that need doing and sharing them out really works. My DH hoovers the house and cleans the bathrooms every weekend, irons his own shirts etc, does the bins and cooks three nights a week, helps tidying up most nights. He spends 13 hrs a day out the house in the week so I don't expect him to do much in the evening but he has his share of the housework to do and I do mine. I'm a sahm and we were bickering talking about how little personal time we both had and he genuinely thought he was hard done by.
Then we wrote a sort of time scale of his and my days, both typical weekday and weekend. He was flabbergasted and agreed he was a dick and hadn't realised how long my 'working day' was. Since then he's been much better.
Can you make him see what time he has to himself, and what time you have, and if after that he doesn't think he should be doing more then personally I would not have a child with him.

Kidnapped, you're only seeing one side of him. It isn't his most attractive side, admittedly, but I'm not at the kicking him out stage yet. I think there is a bit of selfishness behind his actions, a bit of being genuinely unaware how much goes into keeping the house semi-functioning, and a bit of old-fashioned gender stereotyping, however much he'd deny this - his mum was a SAHM while he grew up, and she is very traditional 'the house is MY domain!', while his Dad went out to work. I am going to write a list as Don'tBuyAMumNewCashmere suggests so he can see how much gets done/thought about that he just doesn't know about. I want to work it out. I do love him very much.

I just don't like him a great deal right now.

I'm with kidnpaped
Let him go back to where he lived before. He will never change.

He used to live on his own, he knows how the house functions. You are not a SAHM.
Just stop doing anything for him then, washing, cooking, etc. Don't put up with it, he hopes he'll wear you down to submission and you hope he'll come round.

He's not unaware at all of how a house functions. He managed it in his own gaff, didn't he? You said he was OCD there.

When you have a baby together, this "OCD" will translate into him having very high standards regarding the housework that only you will be doing. While he "relaxes". Call me cynical...

You can't do much about his selfishness or his unexamined gender expectations but you can give him a list of half the jobs to do around the house. If he can manage to keep on top of his jobs for a couple of months then maybe this can have a positive effect on his selfishness and gender expectations. Maybe he will see the light. I hope so. I'd be watching him like a hawk over the next couple of months though.

I do think that once you see what are fairly basic character flaws in someone, you can't then unsee them if you understand what I mean. You'll be on hyper alert for the next act of thoughtlessness, selfishness, entitlement. And these should be great days for you both - living together, planning a baby, planning a life together. But his behaviour so far has compromised that. Worth thinking about.

He managed perfectly well when he was on his own, he just doesn't see why he should do housework when he's got a skivvy to do it for him - adding a baby into his mindset would be madness. Shape up or ship out time

I couldn't find his attitude sexually attractive AT ALL - so that would sort out the baby issue for a start

"I do think that once you see what are fairly basic character flaws in someone, you can't then unsee them if you understand what I mean. You'll be on hyper alert for the next act of thoughtlessness, selfishness, entitlement. And these should be great days for you both - living together, planning a baby, planning a life together. But his behaviour so far has compromised that. Worth thinking about."

"I couldn't find his attitude sexually attractive AT ALL - so that would sort out the baby issue for a start"

This and this - oh yes yes yes. I agree with you both there. Happily, I don't have the kind of temperament that shuts up and puts up.

He has lived with a woman for one year, in the whole of his 43-year existence. Other than his mother. He's used to one load of washing a week, minimal housework, shopping and cooking for one (he would eat the same thing all the time, because it was easier)... I have basically taken on an adult student. He masked it well, because he is SUCH a lovely man. Honestly he is. But he has had a good 25 years of only taking care of himself. His last relationship - 13-years long - was marked by long periods of either him or her working abroad, or in another county. He was very committed to her, loved her to pieces, but never had to really live with her or negotiate what it means to live mundanely with another human being who thinks bedsheets should be changed once a week, or fortnight at a push if we're really up shit creek workwise. It was all reunions or goodbyes. I wouldn't give a shit about the mopping in that context. He's never lived like a grown up. Let alone one with kids and animals everywhere.

I am hoping I can help him become an enlightened responsible human being. Though last night I could have buried him under the patio. Only I'd have to dig the fucking hole myself and that's just ANOTHER thing to do...

"I am hoping I can help him become an enlightened responsible human being"

I think you are on a real hiding to nothing there; he has made himself perfectly clear. He just wants someone to look after him.

He's 43 - I think that ship has well and truly sailed

We've only been living together for 5 months. I will give him the opportunity to prove that he can change, as his messages earlier stated. People deserve a chance.

Although I also worry that at 43 he is simply too set in his ways.