Stingy with gifts - should I say something?

[mollipops]

My brother (db) and his wife (dsil) have been married for 10 years or so, have no children and seem to have no intention of ever having any. Db is 37 and dsil is 33. He is an electronic engineer with his own business, and she works at a bank and is very career-minded. They both drive fancy cars (db has a Porsche) and are always going overseas or interstate on holiday. My point being - they are not exactly short of money. I know dsil is very non-maternal in her nature (she once commented that my ds is "pretty cute - for a kid." but I feel there is no excuse for what they have done lately...

Here goes...Easter Sunday this year also happened to fall on ds' 3rd birthday. We were having a family bbq to celebrate (it was dfil's birthday the day before too). When I asked if they (db and dsil) could come along, db said they already had plans. Which is fair enough - but they do only live 10 mins drive away! It would have been nice if they could have called in at some stage over the weekend... Anyway. We saw them the weekend afterwards at the Rotary Fair (db is very into Rotary Club) and dsil was asking how the day had gone etc. I said it was great, but of course they had got so many Easter eggs and had had so much choccy blah blah, to which she said "Oh well, probably a good thing that we didn't buy them any then." I then went on to talk about ds' birthday, and she asked him what he'd been given etc, but there was no mention of a gift from them, not even so much as a card. I felt awful for the poor little man, birthdays are such a big deal when you are 3!

Anyway the straw that broke the camel's back came recently when it was dsil's birthday (about a month after ds' and I gave her a handmade card (from the markets), which dd drew on inside, plus a handpainted silk scarf. They were away on the weekend of her birthday so we dropped it over on the Tuesday (dsil was at work but db was home). Since then have not had a call to say thankyou, no acknowledgement at all, even though I have seen db twice since then. I am not very impressed to say the least! It's not the first time either - they were away for Mum's birthday last year and it all got "forgotten".

Am I overreacting here? Do any mumsnetters have any advice? Should I say something or not? Has anyone else been in a similar situation with family? Looking forward to your replies!

Forgot to mention that the last couple of birthday presents I remember the kids getting were very cheap ones - like a plastic helicopter costing $2 (about 70p I think). Sorry if I sound like I'm being petty, but it just seems ridiculous!

mollipops, your SIL certainly doesn't sound like every kid's favourite aunt! But I don't think you can say anything really. My SIL and her husband were childless for for quite a while after we first had kids and were in a similar position to yours (not Porsches but pots of money by our standards) but would give ours £2 at 2, £3 at 3 etc...we thought it stingy too (and I used to get cross and moan to my DH, her brother) but didn't say anything...

Anyway they now have a child (just the one!) and she is unbelievably generous to ours. (She knows how expensive they are now, and we have 4!)

As far as your gift to your SIL is concerned, she may acknowledge it next time you see her yourself (although your DB didn't mention it - you know what men are like with greetings and messages). If she doesn't you could say something about it - something like "I do hope you liked the scarf, we took ages deciding which one would suit you best!" - but honestly, you are so secure on the moral high ground here, I would just try to take comfort from that.

Your DS will not mind her stinginess if you don't mention it - kids are very accepting of adults' foibles - she will just be the aunt who thinks he's "cute for a kid!" If you can make it all into a joke you will feel better - I hope!

I agree with janh, if your ds and dd get used to who they do get presents from and who they don't then it wont bother them.
If they sometimes do buy something and at other times don't bother then it might be a good idea to tell them not to bother at all as your children are getting mixed signals. This way you are bringing the situation in to the open. I would also stop buying them anything.
Maybe I'm being petty

Agree with janh - try not to let it worry you too much, I have real problems with my SIL (see holidaying with in-laws thread!) & used to think they were mean with presents but I now I take the lead from her & don't exchange birthday gifts (except with the children) and smallish, chocolate type presents at Christmas. It is really not worth bothering about - as janh says, you have the moral high ground and the better manners, why bother to stoop to their level.

mollipops - just to say it goes on everywhere! It was my dd's first birthday earlier this week, and dh's family did nothing. My mum and sister came to a little buffet I did, and really got into the swing, and helped us all have a lovely day (but my family are like that - very 'family' oriented.) Dh's parents live about an hour and a half away, so we'd told them not to bother coming up, but they insisted, only to ring in the morning to say they wouldn't be coming as it was raining (?!). His ds was supposed to come mid afternoon - she rang at 5pm to say she wouldn't be coming either, and his db totally forgot (I hasten to add both his sister and brother have a a family - 3 kids each). I was dissapointed mainly I think because they did not feel the day was special enough to warrant much effort, which is probably a silly thing to think, but I wanted everyone to be excited it was her FIRST BIRTHDAY! It will get harder as she gets older, when she realises she's had nothing from nanny, grandad, auny, uncle and cousins - we still await even a card from any of his family!

Mollipops - don't suppose they offer to babysit either! B4 children I was very selfish, nice car, good holidays, work, work, self, self, lots of spare cash, but I have to say I always brought my friends children nice presents for Christmas, birthdays and Easter. Now I have 2 of my own I probably don't spend quite so much or put as much thought into their presents (I do try!!) Maybe you DB & SIL have set up a bank account for your son and are going to suprise you one day? Interested to see if your darling SIL is posting on this site in a couple of years time (mother of one and one on the way!)- YOU NEVER KNOW WHAT'S ROUND THE CORNER ......
If they don't have to buy for lots of children they they are just being mean (sorry...)

Some people are probably just that way, for their own reasons, and they just can't see anything wrong with it. On a slightly different tangent, it was my MIL's birthday about a month ago and she had organised a dinner at a very nice restaurant, with about 20 friends & family members. (We all paid for our own meals and alcohol). I shopped for her birthday present a few days prior, and bought her something really nice, something I put a lot of thought into and I knew she would like it. Anyway I gave her the present when we got to the restaurant, and she said to me "I'll open it when I get home". I was a bit miffed because most people tend to open their presents when they are given, and I wanted to see if she liked it. The next day I thought about it and assumed she might call to thank us, but you know what? She never phoned. My dh actually phoned her a few days later and asked if she liked the present, and she said "oh, yes I did." That was it. So there is just no explanation for some people - you can get angry at them but it probably will never change the way they are. (Until someone does it to THEM, of course!)

Thankyou everyone for your thoughtful replies...at least I know we're not the only ones!

Maryz, I hadn't thought of that, but honestly don't think that is the case, since they are just so wrapped up in their lifestyle of holidays and sleep-ins etc...as I mentioned dsil has never ever been maternal and I just get the impression she really doesn't want any. My db once said (after I commented on waking up during the night to ds) that he couldn't handle that - "I kick the cat if he wakes me up in the night". ?! No they never offer to babysit (and we don't ask), and never wanted to hold them as babies etc. Now they are able to have a conversation, they don't mind talking to them sometimes, but it seems that babies are a bit too hard! Mind you, dsil is one of these people who knows "everything" and is a real "expert" on babies and children! She has a story to tell on any topic, and would talk the leg off a chair! I don't know how my db stands it to be honest!

The only other child is her nephew, who lives interstate. So yes cazhass, maybe they are being mean! No, really I think they are just self-absorbed (aren't we all before we have kids!?) and it doesn't occur to them...I guess I should go easy on them. After all, one day when they are older and sitting in their big house with two cars in the garage, they will look at each other and say "Quiet isn't it?"

I have friends that would love a child, they bury themselves in fancy holidays, trips away etc because they can't have what they dearly want. R

In-laws visited us last week. They live 300 miles away. Brought nothing woth them for ds, who is 2 1/2. I don't want him to come to expect a lavish gift every time we see them (about once every 2-3 months) but they couldn't even stretch to an ice-cream when we went to the park. What is wrong with them? Grrr

Has anyone considered that these people may have no clue as to what to buy for the children?

I know when I was growing up I dreaded the endless tacky or stupid gifts my brothers and I would get from our relatives on visits or for birthday, xmas etc.

What I have told all of the relatives now is that if they can't think of anything for my dd then we have set up a savings account for her and would be very happy if they sent her money so that it will go into the account till she finds something she wants, or want's to do something. That way everyone should be happy.

On the flip side though I try to get the best and most amusing toys and presents for all of my neices and nephews (those that we get to see anyway) and will usually get a better response than most of their relatives. Maybe it has something to do with being viewed as the very odd uncle (you know the one that never grows up and is liked by all the kids, there's usually one in each family).

I don't get presents for other family members though. My brothers and I decided at an early age that it was a waste of time for adults. So I leave that to my wife.

I have to say, I do sometimes wish that nobody bought presents for anyone - so expensive and such a minefield! With adults it seems we all give each other things we don't really want or need and would be just as happy not to have. I know it sounds really Scroogy but at Christmas I feel particularly that we are wasting our money! I would honestly prefer not to have any presents and not to buy any but just see people and enjoy their company instead - and for them to use their own money to buy themselves things they really like and want. It is a bit different for children, but I think most of them have far too many things anyway. Some gifts are fantastic - like when a friend discovers something her kids are mad on and gets one for your kid in the spirit of sharing - or when a child really wants a specific thing - but others are just more junk for the house. If someone doesn't get me a gift, I actually tend to think 'hooray, one more gift I don't have to get!'. I prefer to give and get flowers and wine, - at least they get enjoyed and used without taking up space forever! I'd be more bothered about relatives who couldn't be bothered to see/play with ds than ones who didn't buy presents, but then again, some people genuinely don't know how to relate to kids.

Birthdays and Christmas were fraught times when we were children mainly because of my father. I learned to enjoy them from my younger sisters who both have a great sense of occasion and enjoy making a fuss of people. I slowly began joining in the fun as a doting auntie and participated fully in all the surprises and ceremonies of their children's birthdays. But when I was unhappily single I sometimes resented it inwardly: it felt like a burden at times. My sisters could be tetchy if, for example, things didn't arrive on the right day.

Now I'm married to someone whose family barely acknowledges birthdays. One of his brothers has bought (weirdly unsuitable) presents for dd at Christmas but otherwise they give no indication that they ever think of her. His mother sends birthday presents but can't bear to ask us what dd would like. She rarely visits us and has never brought a present: she has never asked when my birthday is. Dh's brother comes for dinner regularly and has never brought so much as a bottle of wine, not even on dh's birthday.

My dd is growing up to think of birthdays as special times for us. She doesn't think it's odd that dh's family aren't involved, it's what she's used to. Taking my cue from my sisters, I look on the making/choosing, wrapping and giving of presents as a pleasurable activity for my dd and me to share. Whether the recipient shows appreciation or not hardly matters: she is still learning to think about giving pleasure to others. She gets lots of feedback from me, from my side of the family and increasingly from dh (who shares a birthday with my nephew and has never had so much fuss made of him in his life).

And by the way dd rarely, if ever, receives her presents from my sisters on the right day.

When I buy presents for my nieces and nephews they do tend to be on the cheap side as I have 13 of them to consider! However I do try to take care to buy unusual gifts for them so that even if they are cheap, they are something I have taken pains to choose. So it really riles me when my spoilt niece says a hurtful remark about the present I have chosen for her. One Christmas I bought her this little gnome who was stuck inside a glass bottle, peering to get out. I got it from a car boot sale. I made out an adoption certificate to go with it and thought she would be really made up with the present, instead she told everyone what a useless gift I had bought her and how typical of her Aunty Lisa to have bought something like that. I was really hurt and upset, especially as her mum (my sister) didn't say anything to her. Now I usually stick to books as I know she likes those Goosebumps ones, but on her brother's birthday I bought him two books, one on volcano's and one on dinosaurs (pop-up ones), I heard her whisper to him as he opened them, "She's got you books again as she always does". Now I'm wondering whether or not to buy the ungrateful little brat anything at all. I would stick money in but my husband doesn't earn much, so even a fiver, if I did that for everyone at Christmas it would cost me £65 and that's without his family. So although I only spend pounds on them, I try to be creative with it.

So don't knock those who buy cheap presents, even if they are well-off, they might have loads of people to buy for and may not want their presents shoved back in their faces. I also agree with Simon that many people simply do not know what to buy children. How about giving them a few hints as to what to buy? For instance for dd's birthday I want to buy her a wooden farm and I am going to ask family to buy those animals from Early Learning Centre for £2 each so she can fill her farm up.

Poor old Rhubarb, you sound like a really thoughtful present giver - no wonder you feel inclined to forget the spoilt little darling next year!

How about this for an unsuitable present? My friend's eight year old ds received a box of chocolate willies from his new stepfather for Christmas...............took several months of heated discussion, explanation and apology to sort it out. (The stepfather is fifty-something, has never had his own children or any contact with them and frankly admitted to not having a clue what was appropriate for an 8 year old - thought he was being funny) Ha ha ha.

I'm sorry sniksnak, that really made me laugh! Poor bloke, getting it ALL wrong!!!

Rhubarb - you sound so lovely. Kids can be so horrible and thoughtless though. My daughter, whenever she goes to see another child, takes one of her toys for them to play with - or used to , anyway. It breaks my heart when I see (some) of them turn up their nose at her little toy.

Getting back to stingey presents though - I don't think it's how much you spend on a present that matters, it's the graciousness of receiving it and the thought going into picking it. My sister-in-law (boo) always asked for the receipt for whatever you bought her. There was always soemthing 'wrong' with it. Plus, they always tried to buy a present to 'impress' whilst still spending less than anyone else (and earning more than anyone else). If I only had £5.00 to spend, I'd buy the best thing I could get for that. She'd buy the biggest for that, even though the quality might be crap.

I've been invited to the neighbour's 3 yr old son's party shortly and I desperately wanted to buy something really awful like play dough or extra large chalks or a drum or even better one of those squeaky recorders! Not that I have unresolved issues with them, you understand!! I've taken the wimps way out and put money in a card - the child has everything that moeny can buy and is spoilt beyond bearing. Why am I going? I wasn't quick enough to say no, that's why! And I have to keep my friend company till she offers to faint and I take her home early!! oh I'm bad.

Rhubarb- your kids are going to have much better values and more creativity than their over-indulged cousins (not to mention better manners).

I m with Aloha. I would love to completely discontinue giving and receiving gifts as a compulsory birthday/christmas thing. We all have so much , and I really believe our excesses of "stuff" contribute to our sense of being overwhelmed at times. I for one am always battling for some semblance of order at home.
Also I find it really hard to find the TIME for buying and delivering gifts. I have lost count of the number of times I have given a child a gift only to find someone else gave them the very same thing.

Rhubarb, dont give your niece anything next time.

I also believe, like Aloha, gifts should be small, and preferably food, drink, or flowers.At least with those three you know the gift won't get wasted.

Just to update - janh you were right about men being unreliable at passing on messages! When I saw my dsil and db a couple of weeks ago at mum's, (it's mother's Day here 1st Sunday in May) she thanked me profusely for the scarf! I felt like a bit of a dweeb after that!

Still must add that they bought my mum's Mothers Day gift (one of those foot-spa things), not wrapped up but inside a large black plastic bag, like a bin bag! And no card either! Sigh, I think they just have no clue about gift-giving.

Oh and dsil happened to mention the children subject, after saying she was going to study to become a vet nurse now, and it seems that while she wouldn't mind starting a family soon, it is db who is "not ready". He's 37 for goodness' sake, if he's not ready now when does he think it might happen?! I can't actually imagine him with a baby to be honest (esp after the things he was doing to dd's baby doll!) So I can't see him suddenly waking up one day feeling paternal. Looks like I'll never get to be an aunty! Moan.