work colleague clique

[tomatapassata]

I'm writing this whilst feeling absolutely fed up with the group dynamics at work. I started a role in a demanding, fast paced business environment around 3 years ago now. Straight away, I was a little shocked at how closely knit and unwelcoming most of my team were. None tried to get to know me and I really had to fight to be heard or noticed. I've seen 2 others come and go and still be treated in the same way. Both have acknowledged this was happening to thme too. I've since spoken to the main boss about this who tells me he is aware and is closely monitoring the situation.

Last year, I took 9 months off to have a baby, returned and it's much the same, just as expected. Only this time, I've stopped trying with this group of people. I get on with my job, speak civilly and go home to my DS at the end of the day. I wondered why it would be worth setting myself up for failure and inadequacy. Nobody openly noticed or asked how I was on returning to work within my team. Again, just no acknowledgement of a new member of staff'a existence.

Last week however, I started feeling really lonely at work, other 'teams' seem to work more inclusively together and I'm desperate for conversation! As it is such a demanding field, there isn't much time for mixing with other teams and I work through lunch break's to get home to DS earlier. Therefore, mixing with other teams isn't an option. I decided to 'try again' with my team, but again any attempts were met with ignorance, talking over me and no attempt to involve me in conversation whatsoever. I fact they spoke about what they had collaboratively been up to at the weekend. How do I contribute to that?

I've reverted back to isolation and I just feel completely deflated and sad that it has to be this way. I don't know how else I can make my work life a more pleasant experience whilst in the presence of these people?

Other teams are aware of my team''s cliquey-Ness as are management but nobody can really do much about it. I can't change teams because my expertise are in a very defined area. Changing jobs would be problematic as there aren't many jobs in my area within my field and I'm so close to DS' nursery, it SHOULD suit my family''s needs. I'm so miserable of being this social hermit though, and aside from this I enjoy my work. What is the answer? Going to work with these people just grates on my confidence and self worth every day. I so wish we were on friendlier terms but they aren't interested.

Try not to take it personally. As you say, they don't like it when new people join other teams, let alone theirs. They like being exclusive, don't want it to change. If you left, they'd be the same to your replacement.

It's an upsetting situation when you'd like to join in. But the other advantages to you from this job are pretty substantial on a practical level. You may have to accept that you're not going to get the social interaction that you hoped for. If there's one who's marginally more responsive, perhaps you can get some sort of dialogue going with her?

I don't think management can do that much, unless they can split up the group for work purposes. A friend of mine had the same sort of situation where she was excluded at break times, just because they didn't want to change their ways or admit new people into their clique. When management 'had a word', there was a lot of indignant 'I'm not going to be told who I have my coffee with' and it made things worse.

Again - it's not you, it's them.

God. Who would want to spend every weekend with work colleagues! My idea of hell.

However I don't think you can legislate against having friends in work. Are they still productive? Could a desk shuffle be organised? Bake a cake and bring it in for everyone?

I suggest you start taking your lunch break, maybe 2-3 times a week if not everyday, and get to know other people. You don't need much contact to make the day a little easier, so take the time to get to know a few other people. I get that you want to head home early, but the lunch break is what, 30 mins? It doesn't make a huge difference to the length of your day.

I have done all of the baking cakes stuff in the past to try and warm them. They treat me kindly for a day when they're shovelling in my cake and then go back to normal the day after. I'm not even sure they're aware of the fact they're excluding me, I think they're just so wrapped up in their own little group that they make no gaps for anyone else to peep through.
I don't bake for them anymore, or put myself out in any other way shape or form.
They are quite productive together as a group, but to an almost arrogant degree. They act like the elite and obviously feel they're a cut above. The team leader of the group sends me most of the less challenging stuff whilst 'the elite' clique work through the challenging stuff together as a team. I don't even have to go to team meetings as they are usually to do with the stuff my team leader keeps from my remit. I could make room to socialise with others for 30 mins twice a week, but I'd have to find another team to socialise with. My confidence is a bit shot though to be honest and I'm not sure how I might approach it.

Do you have a lunchroom? Or anywhere else that other teams meet? Go along with your lunch, give them a warm smile and ask if you could sit there.

If the group has a bit of a reputation you may find it easier than you think to hook up with other teams at lunch.

Is there any scope for starting something new such as a lunchtime book club, crossword club or similar that might reach across the organisation?

It sounds like the convenience factor in working in the same locations as your husband makes it worth staying.

In your situation I'd confide in HR with your manager present. It isn't affecting anyone else enough for them to own the problem at the moment.

To make that change, you need to communicate how it is affecting you and impacting the business. If your line manager won't intervene, go a level higher. Or go to the top. It's that important.

When in this situation, you become less effective at reading the true signals that a group such as they give off. You become more sensitive and susceptible to the belief that they all like each other and that they're socialising constantly out of work.

They're actually quite sad and are all playing roles. No doubt there is a hierarchy. A ring leader. A passive. As I say. Sad isn't it. And for what?

Go through the proper channels at work. Make management believe there's an issue impacting the business. Tell them about the negativity within the group towards magament. Come clean.

Good luck.

Thanks everyone.
I've a lot of ideas now atleast, which makes the prospect of going to work tomorrow slightly easier.
I can't help but feel that if I go to HR, they could argue that I have in fact been the same way with them every time they've marginally included me in conversation since returning from mat leave. Which I have, but only as a way of protecting myself from the constant rejection.

I'm going to take the advice of many and begin the search for another job. There has to be more to life than this, surely? It's genuinely knocking my confidence in all areas of my life now.I worry I'm going to say something nobody wants to hear all the time, which isn't healthy I guess. Since when was it so uncool to be kind? When I was at school I suppose and these people don't appear to have moved on. It's going to take a long time to find suitable alternative work but I will get the ball rolling.

Until your post at 2053 it was difficult to prove bullying by exclusion which is illegal and is supposed to be dealt with but rarely is. I've been in exactly this situation. I was able to leave and easily get another job but I had also already spoken to my boss, her boss and hr and nothing changed. I got a good reference even though my last few weeks there I was accused of making mistakes I hadn't and my stuff was being messed with.

After I left a new hr person was employed. When the person who replaced me made the same complaint there were changes made. My immediate boss was sacked and her boss disciplined (she was able to argue she didn't know the full extent as she hadnt been told and didn't physically work in the office it was happening in. Not true but she got away with it).

The main culprit at my level was also sacked.

It was a good job and paid really well but I was miserable and getting nowhere taking it higher.

I wonder if talking to acas might be a good idea? Just for advice.

If op went to HR and got no satisfactory result thus needing to move on could the company be guilty of constructive dismissal?

Sorry after my first sentence I was going to say in your case it actually goes beyond bullying you're actually being excluded from work tasks. Extremely unprofessional and I'm thinking may come under some kind of discrimination clause? As you're part time due to being the main carer for your children I'm wondering if this would come under sex discrimination ? Acas would know better. Particularly as things seem worse since your return from maternity leave.

Where UK is bad in not following USA is certain employment laws, in this case I think in USA this would be classed as a 'hostile work environment' not sure if that's a thing in UK. Again ACAS would know.

www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1864

Ladyb I think that could possibly be true. I'm no expert but I investigated this possibility myself. Unfortunately there's a very tight statute of limitations on this and by the time I learnt of this possibility (from the hr girl at my new place after becoming friendly with her) the time had passed.

As I posted that link I did wonder about OP leaving leaflets lying about with the portions about possible tribunal highlighted might kick her bosses arse to sort it.

Ask yourself- what is more important:

1. Going to work, feeling involved and useful but being a bit further away from picking up your DS and perhaps spending an extra hour/hour an a half away from him.

1. Going to work, realising it is a place for that and not a social gathering, getting on with your job and returning to your DS earlier.

Only you can answer that.

Its obviously making you miserable- so I think you know the answer. Im sure you want to spend as much time with your DS as possible- but question how miserable you will feel in another 6, 12, 18 months? Its clearly on your mind when you are at home and impacting on your personal life. Or you wouldnt be posting.

You could complain. But prepare for them to find a backwards way to get at you- and take it from someone who has recently done it and had to give up their job over it- it isnt worth it for a second.

Do you go to ANY team meetings? What happens at the meetings you are excluded from, eg do you get meeting notes that would provide evidence of you being excluded from discussions that concern you? Could you speak to your line manager about this? If you get no response then definitely go to HR.

Tomato Why would you not at least try HR and tell them everything that you´ve told us? Why talk yourself out of it before you´ve even tried? That´s a very defeatist attitude. The fact people have left for the same reasons that you are now experiencing goes in your favour.

Your employers have a duty of care to their employees and HR are there to ensure that it´s being done and procedures are followed. You´ve gone to your manager ( the correct 1st step in taking action ) and they´ve fobbed you off. So therefore, you go to HR. I´m slightly aghast that you would be looking to move ( esp given all the reasons you say this job is very suitable for you ) when you haven´t even attempted to go to HR first. To me this is a no-brainer. Don´t you want to know your rights??

Fair enough if you didn´t actually like the work itself and were fed up in that regard, go look for another job. But why give up without a fight?These women need split up, it´s that simple. Nobody can make them start to include you but the dynamic needs changed or there will always be a clique.

By all means have a look for other jobs but you should make an appointment with HR, just to see where you stand within Employment Law. They are the experts within your workplace afterall, and they are there for a reason.

What is your husband saying about this? If your job´s worth fighting for, get your Big Girl Pants on and chuffing well fight for it! Things can´t get any worse can they??

There has to be more to life than this, surely?

Yes, there really really is, if you're asking that question then you're in a bad place. Get out before you solidify there and accept it as normal.

Btw, a happier mother will be better for the whole family as someone upthread said.

About going to HR - weigh it up; do they have a good reputation? Are they flexible and (genuinely) listening? or do they spout 'be positive' crap which is clearly not going to achieve anything in this situation? Agreed that you might have to watch your back quite hard if these unpleasant people get to know you've made a complaint.

So they exclude you from meetings?

I would go straight to HR.

They don't go out of their way to 'exclude' me from meetings but tend to have them on my days off as much of the agenda is about their 'more challenging' workload so I don't need to be there.
If I'm honest, my gut tells me that my team leader feels a little threatened and so doesn't give me the high ranking tasks.I'm more than capable of doing them, but other colleagues have told me they envy me for not having to do the harder tasks so wondered if I ought to be grateful I'm not having to work as hard.
Then I thought about what if put on my CV when I look for another job and actually, by not doing the more challenging tasks, my career is being inhibited as other businesses would like me to have experience in doing them. I will speak to acas and my union before I apply for other jobs to feel out my rights before going to HR too.

I worked somewhere a bit like this for a while and it is horrible, I didn't really appreciate just how it affected me until years later. So please don't be tempted to underplay how depressing and debilitating this kind of bullying behaviour can make you feel!

On the point of being 'coincidentally' excluded from meetings and more challenging work, it should definitely be worth (if you have a halfway competent HR dept) going to them with the facts and the magic www.askamanager.org line 'I'm worried that this behaviour opens the company to accusations of constructive dismissal'.

It's well worth having a look at askamanager anyway, the site and most questions are US based but lots of relevance if you ignore the legal bits.

Sounds like you can make any HR discussions be about concern that you aren't achieving your true potential and that the company isn't making full use of your high level of skills.

Your team members might claim you are not included as you are pt, or have been off on mat leave, which is possibly discrimination.

It's surprising that the team has stayed together for 3 years, no changes, no pregnancies, no moves - must be quite unusual. So fingers crossed that something breaks them up soon! It could happen any time.

YOu should make sure you socialize with friends on your days off and don't just spend time at home.

this used to be me the only one not invited in an office of 5 people.
But now the dynamics have changed and the office has been reorganised, the main excluder left and the boss was demoted. The atmosphere is so much better, and I am included as is everyone else.
If you enjoy your job and you can let it go, then it may change for the better.
Good luck

Where's your line manager in all of this? Do you never have reviews or meetings with them? If you're capable of more challenging work and not ever being given it, it doesn't sound like there's any effort being made to develop you.

Start documenting all of this with times, dates and what's happened. It will help enormously if you need to take it further.

Ah - just seen they feel threatened. That's bollocks. I'd go to their manager, personally. I couldn't put up with it.