My mum thinks that just because she helps out I don't have any rights to challenge her .

[maggiethemagpie]

I've never had a great relationship with my mum, but in recent years since having kids she has been a lot more involved in my life. She has my daughter once a week, which is probably more for her benefit than ours as my partner is a SAHD so we don't need childcare. She will also come round and help clean the house, which I think she does in order to feel useful and needed, as we've never asked her to do this she just offers. ( actually she says she does it as she doesn't want her grandchildren living in a dirty house).

Also she is quite well off and has given money towards my wedding and towards the house in the past, again all offered not demanded by me.

But she seems to think this gives her the right to tell me what to do, she is constantly criticising me about petty things such as how I spend my money, or even how I wrote the invitations for my wedding which is nothing to do with her. Or what we feed the kids for example - my son does not like meat so we don't force him to have meat.

When I told her I found this criticism unwarranted and unnecessary, she just whips out the 'I do so much for you and now you're having a go at me, I'll withdraw all my help' line/threat. Like because she has helped with the wedding costs and done some cleaning I'm not allowed to challenge her in any way.

Then she goes into victim mode - saying after all I do for you, look how you treat me, etc.

i tried to have a conversation with her about the constant criticism and ask her to stop, or at least suggest things rather than tell me outright I shouldnt' do x, y , z, but she thinks she has a right to tell me what to do as she's my mum and she helps out. so the conversation just goes round in circles.

Has anyone got any words of advice as I'm at the end of my tether.

My mum will probably sulk a while then pretend nothing's happened, I do feel like I am being bought sometimes though so maybe should rethink the cleaning thing

^^ that is my mil to a tee! The problem is the pretending that nothing has happened. Mil couldn't discuss anything^ with out bursting in to tears or screaming or shouting if I tried discussing how she was making me feel. When we had out 'big' fall out she gave DH £200 to 'treat himself' which was actually a bit off so he didn't tell her to piss off

Buy off**

Been there, got the T-shirt with my mum. Similar situation - she had the kids once a week and thought that bought her the right to comment on our lives.
In the end we had a huge bust up.
I told her to spend time with the kids because she wanted to, not because she felt it gave her rights to control us.
You will need to have the fight or learn to live with her comments.

she just whips out the 'I do so much for you and now you're having a go at me, I'll withdraw all my help' line/threat

peppa'snana has it right.

Thank her for her hard work and say that it's obviously causing trouble so you're rather she didn't do it. Ditto childcare.

You -are- going to have to face up to the squalls of fury and self pity that come in. That's kind of the choice you make; either you give in all the time or you stand your ground and face the storms from your rather controlling mother.

How does your fiancé take all this? Have you talked to him about it? He might be getting rather riled too. If he is it needs sorting out before you are married because it'll only get worse specially as she ages.

Also, if she has a key of her own then say you've had one stolen and you're changing all your locks (can only change the barrels, much cheaper). Or ask for your key back but that might be quite difficult.

None of this means you can't meet her for coffee or invite her round ... at YOUR time.

My house is far from perfect but someone coming in and telling me it's dirty would result in a frosty uninvite in future. My MIL is tactful enough to say "Meerka, I think maybe this bit needs a look at at some time" .... but never with criticism. She knows what it's like when you've two small children and other stuff on. -That's- constructive feedback, not tearing you down.

The funniest one was when she put a haze air freshener in the bathroom (because she has one at home). My partner really hates the smell of them, they just replace toilet whiffs with nasty haze smell, and we have a fan and window in the bathroom anyway so don't see a need for a spray.

But she secreted this haze freshener in a few weeks ago and neither of us realised at first, then had a 'did you buy this haze?' 'I didn't!' conversation and realised it was her!

It went straight in the bin which she was not best pleased about!

Funny on the surface but makes me angry underneath as it's just more interfering.

Do you think the cleaning/looking after DC might be a sign she is uncomfortable with you DP being a SAHD? Obv she has no right what so ever to be critical but if he is not cleaning because she comes round to do it anyway could that be reinforcing her views??
Either way the advice from others is good, tell her to help less and show her you can do it. May require your DP to man up a little too - if your options really are only your mum or pay of a cleaner who you can't afford until after the wedding then she is doing you a favour.....

By the way the childcare isn't childcare. Its her asking to have my daughter for the day because she wants to. She gets upset if she doesn't see the grandchildren every week. It's no skin off my nose if they go there or not, I'm happy for them to see her and her to see them and would never use them as a pawn (as SHE did with my dad when I was five and they'd split up)

Yeah, it's a favour with conditions though isn't it Bump Power. It's like someone saying they'll clean your house for free...great...only it isn't really free because they then use it against you emotionally... not so great.

This is classic controlling behaviour.

Let her kick off about having your dd. She's only doing it for herself, and it will cause a precedent that she could enforce in court if this all goes to shit.

Your DP is a sahp, let him be that parent and insist that DM does not enter your home.

That comment about her gc living in an unsuitable home is just vile. That is a thinly veiled bitch directly at you.

It's enough for you to say, actually, if you find out home so offensive, no need to visit.

Stop this nonsense right now. It will go horribly pear shaped if you sleep walk into this.

It's going to be very hard but you have to insert a bit more of a distance between yourself and your Mum and your domestic set-up.

I wouldn't have thrown the air freshener in the bin - I would have taken it back round to hers and it could have been a great opening gambit in a conversation all the lines of "I appreciate you think you are being helpful, but can you not see that you are actually interfering? We don't want air freshener, we haven't asked for it, why did you do that?" Ask her how she would like it if you let herself into her house and moved stuff around. She has got to learn to see you as an independent adult.

Far too many parents seem to have great difficulty with this!

I would never prevent her from seeing the kids Hissy, unless she was being neglectful in some way, as she did this with me and my dad when he didn't pay maintenance after they split. I didn't realise until I was older but she denied him access for 9 months when he was struggling financially and couldn't pay maintenance. What kind of mother does that to her kids?

So unless it was in their best interests, rather than mine, I would allow her to see the kids (at her house though).

One time she refused to have my son any more as she wanted to withdraw her 'help', then phoned up begging to see him three days later saying she missed him too much!

I really don't want to get into the 'using small children as pawns' game

What kind of mother does that to her kids?

I really don't want to get into the 'using small children as pawns' game

be very careful how far you allow her into your lives.

You need a good step back and establishing normal healthy boundaries. Will your husband help and support you? ssetting the limits for intrusive parents can be incredibly hard

Maybe you need to make it clear to her that she's welcome to have the children visit but that this isn't 'help'. It's just visiting. Like normal, non-controlling people do.

Her "help" is not that at all; its all conditional and loaded with obligation on you.

She kept your dad away from you all due to her own spitefulness, she used you as children to get back at her ex H. What you are seeing now with you and your mother is an entirely different scenario from that.
She was not a good parent to you and she is a crap example of a grandparent to her grandchildren. Such people like your mother do make out to be bad grandparent figures.

Does your mother actually have any friends?. My guess is that she does not.

Protecting your children from malign influences like their grandmother is an excellent idea. It also shows them that ill treatment from a relative will not be at all tolerated, minimised or excused by you as their mother.

You would not have tolerated any of this from a friend, family are no different.

I would suggest you raise and reaffirm your own boundaries now re your mother. This may be hard to do because you've really been trained by her not to have many boundaries or even any particularly when it comes to her.

It is not your fault she is like this; you did not make her that way. Her own family of origin did that to her.

I would also suggest you read Toxic Parents written by Susan Forward to further understand the power and control dynamics that are really being played out here.

Sorry Op,

Just seen your reply.

The housework thing (which is a massive issue) on both sides. That your DM feels she can come into your house & go inyo your draws/ move your things... But where's your dp when shes cleaning? How bad can thr house be?

It can't be that bad with a Sahp & only 2 dc.

Seriously I had to create distance & boundaries with my dm. Not that my dm would ever offer to help but that's another thread!

My ds & his partner are lovely but their flat is grotty. They have a dd. I adore all of them. If they asked me to come & help clean, it would give me great satisfaction but i wouldn't dream of just going in there & cleaning!

My MIL is like this with DH. She makes him feel obliged to have her tell him what to do. He will even say " I ask her to help me with X then she has the right to tell me what to do about Z."
I think you are feeling an obligation towards your DM as my DH does to his. Is your DM quite lonely? Perhaps she is creating situations to feel needed and to keep the sense of obligation going strong. It'a going to be difficult to break the cycle after years of conditioning but maybe start putting your foot down by telling her you no longer require help with x y z? Then explain that you don't appreciate unsolicited advice the next time she tries to give it?

NEWSFLASH! I spoke to my mum on the phone and she said she was to sorry and she didn't mean to interfere. I don't think she will fully stop as it's such an ingrained habit, but she's out of the sulk and trying to make amends at least.

I said that it wasn't what she said more the way in which she said it, and if she suggested things in a gentler way rather than going in really harsh, I'd be more likely to listen.

Who knows if she will try to do this, but it's a start.

good start =)

It might help to actually pick her up every time when she starts backsliding. She will; habit is very hard to break. Actual feedback, someone saying 'you're doing it again', might help her quite a lot.

Yes, while you have a truce why don't you agree a signal whether verbal or non verbal that says 'back off, mum'?

That's sounding positive!

Relationships eh - not perfect. My mum means well but has so many faults . I hope our kids try to find ways to manage our faults without resorting to that awful 'nip in the bud' stuff - like we're naughty idiots. Makes me cringe to hear parents talked about in that way - even if they're not the best parents.

I hope you can find a good way forward together - bcs you're both sounding quite polarised. She may be irritating/controlling but it looks like she means well, just doesn't know how to do it without taking over and dominating - poor skating skills. The air freshener may have been irksome but to chuck it away was harsh imo - you could have given it back to her 'thanks but no thanks, mum'.

But there's history, so not surprising you can't help kicking out.

Skating? Relating!

Had to reply as I think OP and I have the same mother. I could have written her post almost word for word!

Same here, my mum used gifts as control. 2 years ago I stopped accepting anything from her. I also became very thick skinned and stopped feeling guilty for everything. All hell broke loose for quite a while but I stopped feeling controlled and bullied by her. My answer to her withdrawing help would now be 'that's fine I didn't ask you for it, you offered' it seems harsh but its the truth and will stop all the emotional blackmail. Don't ever say you or the dc need anything, never say you are saving for anything and if she gets a gift say thank you and then forget about it, don't worry about 'owing her' or feeling guilty. Think about it like you would when you give your dc a gift, no strings attached. You wouldn't give your dc something and expect something in return so neither should she. Good luck, I hope it gets better

She doesn't sound so bad. Wish my mother was still alive to do all those things and be apart of our lives. Nobody's perfect. Maybe try to improve how you communicate with her.

I think she doesn't want to accept that you are creating a new family and her role has to change. Your priorities are now your dp and dc and she is trying to insert herself in your family dynamic. It sounds like she doesn't have any other life or interests other than you and your new family which is not healthy and balanced.

You will hear in these boards that when a person is having their boundaries ignored and denied it fills them with FOG: Fear Obligation and Guilt. She is trying to manipulate the situation to get what she wants but you and dp need to be very clear about what YOU want for your family.

She is ignoring physical boundaries of your home and calling her invasion of your privacy and family circle "help" which you didn't ask for and you don't want.