FWB with someone you have feelings for

[MzLouissa]

I started a FWB situation with a guy I didn't think I liked...I thought he was cute but no interest.

As soon as we started we liked each other more than expected and started to grow feelings.

I reacted by hoping things would come to more. He reacted by going cold and creating distance because he didn't want to fall in love.

I ended it three months ago because it felt ridiculous.

He's wanting to try again. Can't seem to keep away from each other. Really strong sexual attraction and he swears he learned from his mistakes last time and will be more open if / when he feels scares of how close we're getting.

I know the obvious answer is to stay clear. I just feel very mixed up. I think we've got serious potential but his commitment fears are really severe and I think I might just end up hurt?

Am I mad to start things up again?

The problem is that when you're sleeping with someone and the sex is very good then you can look at someone who is wholly unsuitable for you with really rose tinted glasses.

The thing that stands out for me is this

'Never really had many relationships'

There's a reason why and it's his problem to sort out. He may never change. Particularly if he's older.

MzLouissa I really, really don't see you as someone who would just attach to anyone who walks past (as I said, your posts are painfully familiar)… but you did go into this not feeling as much as you did after 5 nights together and felt the FWB thing was coming slightly more from you than him… and I do think there is a hormonal, psychological thing going on there which has made you fall much harder for him than you would have done otherwise, and that it will eventually wear off to nothing when you give yourself proper no contact distance… and when you meet someone that has all of the lovely qualities you admire in this man without the angst and "feelings" and "talks" and just think… "ah, yes, ok, this is really worth it."

I hope so Laurierf :)

I'd not made my mind up. I knew what was the right thing to do but there's a difference between knowing and doing it.

He has had one teenage relationship which I don't think counts and one adult relationship which lasted a year. He's 30. So yes...issues obviously serious but he's never had FWB before. He's just been alone

What were the aspects about him that made you want to keep him at a distance a bit at first and do 'FWB'?

I understand that we are the exception to the rule, but I have been married to my FWB for several years. I fell for him, he completely backed off and ended things because he didn't want more, and then changed his mind.

I'm not saying you will end up the same, and there is a massive chance you could get hurt, only you can decide whether to take that risk.

BifsWif - when he changed his mind, did he offer you FWB the second time round too?

What were the aspects about him that made you want to keep him at a distance a bit at first and do 'FWB'?

I dont think anything about him in particular was offputting. It was more that I wasn't that long healed after my own bad breakup and was in a space to play the field and not get tied down. At the time I had been online dating and was in my prime and had offers from about 10 men all at the same time and was loving it. Diferrent week, diferrent date. Wasn't having sex with anyone and just enjoying freedom and life. I never actually agreed to the FWB arrangement...it was more that I knew that was what he wanted and one day we ended up in bed. We never sort of sat down and discussed it, and then as soon as we did sleep together that night we just sort of carried on like boyfriend and girlfriend so when it came around to being pretty obvious we had feelings for each other I was just expecting we'd both "go with the flow". Never expected him to run the other way.

I do have a gut feeling that something is right with us and that's really hard to ignore but he's coming back to me asking me for FWB again instead of saying he'd at least like to try a relationship.

So I suppose I don't want too much too soon either (if I am honest I am still in a place of loving my independence) but I just can't get caught up in a situation with someone where it's not just open and honest and relaxed because it's hurtful. He says it will be diferrent, but is also saying it won't and he's been a mass of contradictions.

Maybe if I just tell him he has to at least try a relationship if he wants to be with me then it leaves the ball in his court maybe to make the decision it's worth a try.

I think you need to go back and talk to him. Again, what is it about definitions that make people feel safe? You are saying that he is "as shit at casual relationships as I am" and it seems that he does have feelings, or is at least capable/susceptible to developing feelings for you.

I think both of you need to stop being hung up on definitions and simply discuss expectations/or lack of expectations. By this I guess I mean that the start of any relationship should be characterized by just two expectations: I have no expectations of you, and secondly I expect only that you keep an open mind.

The word term relationship seems to be synonymous with serious. The two terms are not the same thing, can be used together, with one describing the other, but not necessarily.

So, it seems you cook together, you hug, you dance, you have socialized and slept in the same bed. I fail to see how this isn't a relationship in all but name.

So, both he and you are hung up on terminology. You because you seek more and validation that it is more, him because he fears your expectations.

Go back and talk to him.

In my experience men often want relationships with women who are hard to pin down. Yes, they might like a challenge, but its more than that. I think it may be because A)they know they have to up their game B)whilst they know you have high expectations, this is related to your feeling of high value/self worth and not on something like desperation. Tell a man you don't want a relationship=you'll end up in a relationship!

Lots of advice here, all saying be clear what you want for you, and let him decide whether that's also good for him. For your own self esteem, why would you accept anything less?

From enjoying having ten dates chasing you to mooning after someone who is such hard work...

Why do this to yourself? Maybe worth having a look at just how robust your self esteem is.

The problem is that even if he agrees to a relationship then you probably will find that he will be difficult to relate to. My ex used to suddenly say 'I'm not sure how I feel about you any more'. Then 2 days later he was ok. As I say, this went on for 6 months and even after that he was never really able to be a supportive partner.

I personally would never have a relationship with someone who had not had other LT relationships. I think even when it's someone in their early 20s it's a bit of a red flag, but especially a guy who is 30....I think that could potentially be very stressful for you OP.

Again… so familiar!

Honestly, I really think you owe it yourself to cut this thing off and get on with your own life until you meet someone you want to be with who doesn't need convincing that he wants to be your boyfriend. I think you should tell him that, not that he has to at least try to be with you, or get counselling so he can try being with you etc. etc.

So, it seems you cook together, you hug, you dance, you have socialized and slept in the same bed. I fail to see how this isn't a relationship in all but name.

Yes he said yesterday..."we were in a relationship" and so he does know it.

You are saying that he is "as shit at casual relationships as I am" and it seems that he does have feelings, or is at least capable/susceptible to developing feelings for you

I 100% believe he felt the same as me. I just don't think for him that was a good revelation. More it was his worst nightmare. So he did everything he could to push me away and force me to end it. This is really typical behavior for people with bad intimacy issues. Feeling it is one thing...treating that feeling with respect and the right intentions is a totally diferrent thing. If anything I think he was falling faster than I was. He seemed besotted.

Boden
I thought it was circumstance he'd not had many relationships. He was involved long distance for a long time, and he also had a job that was traveling and difficult for relationships - which is why it was no red flag to me at the time - but being 100% honest I feel he now engineered this subconsciously to avoid closeness.

Yes,I think there will be constant angst on his side. I think he will find strategies to withhold commitment, even if he decides to enter into a relationship. As you said, at the moment he is not offering to see where it goes with a proper, defined boyfriend/girlfriend relationship, he is offering a similar FWB arrangement as the one you ended. Really, has anything actually changed? Other than you ending it for your own good when he didn't want it to end?

Did you post about this before?

How on earth can all this angst, this reading of self-help books, this agonised introspection be worth it .. for Friends With Benefits?

FWB is meant to be light, casual, fun. There can be genuine liking and affection (see 'friends') but it is not a relationship.

Look at this sentence alone: he swears he learned from his mistakes last time and will be more open if / when he feels scares of how close we're getting.

He's already giving himself permission to rush in, then panic and basically dump you, claiming he's too scared. Leaving you heart-broken (again) but without any closure (again) because 'the relationship that never was' has ended (again).

This is all a dreadful idea for you. It makes you increasingly desperate - how much of the 'cool non-girlfriend' do you need to pretend to be in order not to 'scare' him. WHY? What is the point of all this for someone who simply does not feel about you the way you feel about him.

Have some self-respect. If you want FWB, find an actual friend that you aren't in love with. If you want a relationship, find an actual boyfriend. Not this 'neither one thing nor the other' mashup from hell.

No he didn't, and I wouldn't have taken it if he had. Maybe that's what's different between me and the OP.

He wanted an exclusive relationship, no more messing around.

laurierf is right

I think you could do just that, or talk to him and explain that you have few expectations beyond what is acceptable such as no shagging around, exclusivity, and spending time together and having fun. I mean what can be so difficult about having fun and spending time together!

I read once that men prefer the journey and the start of a relationship women have a tendency to want to skip this bit and rush to their end goal. I think this is possibly quite true. So, if you act like you have no agenda men relax, are apt to push for more. Old fashioned? No I don't think so, I think its quite enlightened not to fit the stereotype of clinging vine.

Wanting to fix him and talking him round looks desperate and will just reinforce his fear of not meeting your expectations and having constantly to manage them down.

I really think you need not to pander to his feelings and intimacy issues so much. Lay your cards on the table at this point. I know you like him but you are sending him the message that your feelings don't matters as much and trust me, whether he is a nice person or not, that is not a good thing to do.

One other thing to consider about all this is what happens if you have children with a person like this. In my case our daughters are now on the receiving end of their father's inability to address and nurture their emotional needs. He truly loves them and shows it in various ways. But this aspect is not as it should be.

I think he will find strategies to withhold commitment, even if he decides to enter into a relationship

Yes me too. Deep down I really do think that no matter how great things are he will use strageties to avoid commitment.

I posted about this a while ago when I was deciding whether to split up with him or not. I did. Now about whether to get back together.

He's already giving himself permission to rush in, then panic and basically dump you, claiming he's too scared. Leaving you heart-broken (again) but without any closure (again) because 'the relationship that never was' has ended (again).

you're so right there. Thanks.

Decision made. Thanks all.

I think Mini you're a bit like I was in my mind before all this started. I figured we'd just spend time together...how hard can it be? you like each other, you go slowly. I am a pretty "cool" non girfriend so it didn't really phase me.

the perception of anyone who's never met a person like this is that if you're just patient or whatever they will get over it and realise you can be trusted and all their fears melt away.

Having dealt with it now first hand and how fucking illogical and destructive and impossible it is to ope with a totally paranoid fear of closeness like this I can see that they don't just "get over it". They would have to do years of therapy to "get over it" and some of them commit into a relationship and then leave you at the alter or have affairs because ultimately they just don't trust in the greatness of love and commitment. To them it's something to be avoided.

I've definitely made up my mind anyway, as I said. I kept holding on to that hope and it is frustrating but also I just think there's no way I am not going to be even more hurt.

MzLouissa

So much of what you have written echos my own feelings about my situation - except mine was a casual "bf" who I reconnected with just before Christmas after a very long time apart (thread about casual ex bf). I am a very anxiously attached person and he is an avoidant.The chemistry makes me think that even though my head knows it was a bad idea to see him, my heart made me want to go and try again. I didn't want to wonder "what if" and chemistry like that is very luring because it is so rare.

I think the right thing to do is to stay away from these guys but I failed and if he contacts me in January and wants to see me, I will definitely go - even though it's odds on I'll get hurt again.

You are a strong woman and I admire your decision!

MzLoissa - I love your last post (apart from this: I am a pretty "cool" non girfriend so it didn't really phase me but that's maybe because I personally think "cool non-girlfriend" is wrong on a number of levels).

It just reinforces my conviction - for whatever that's worth - that you are an intelligent and therefore attractive woman who really deserves to be with someone they don't need to convince to be with them.

Yes, FWIW I second Laurie's last point.

Yes. Thanks guys. I do know you're right.