Fight or walk away

[Lostmyemailaddress]

I've been with my partner for 3 and a half years we both have dcs from previous relationships our oldest together is 2 and our youngest is 7 months old. We have been trying to find a house to live together for 2 and a half years but due to rental prices in the area we are looking we first struggled to save for rent in advance and a deposit and currently having trouble finding a house that will accept the small amount of housing benefit we'd receive. It is a long distance relationship for now as he is staying with family in the area we are looking so he can do the house viewings. The move benefits everyone as it makes him closer to visit his dcs and there is more support for 1 of my dcs who has dcs.

My partner hasn't always been completely honest with me as I didn't find out about his dcs until earlier this year and I was pregnant with our second child. I tried to be understanding of his reasons and we have tried to work through this but even now at times I still feel I'm still only just coming to terms with it all. He moved in with family members when we had been together 6 months and the plan at the time was he'd help me find a house and after 18 months of me and my dcs being there we would see where we where in terms of out relationship and moving in together. Not long after that I found out I was pregnant by him the first time he didn't react well at first but we got past that and at first he seemed to adore our daughter.

Not long after she was born his visits to us got less and less and we would argue over fact we could go 6 weeks without seeing each other and if he was with family he wouldn't answer the phone if I rang. Things would improve for a little while then visits would become infrequent again and the excuse was always due to work. Things all came to a head last Christmas I wasn't well and he had promised to be with us for Christmas but a couple of weeks before he announced he had to work. It caused a big argument as he had promised me he had booked time off he replied with his boss had cancelled it as he had decided to go on holiday. I told him I was sick of us always being let down and told him it was over and as I was pregnant with our second child that I wouldn't stop him seeing the children but he would have to start having regular contact and would have to start helping financially with his children. He promised he would be here for boxing day and asked for a second chance I replied if he turned up I would be willing to try and work things out with him but I told him I felt things were really off and that I was suspecting he was seeing someone else which he denied. He did turn up on boxing day and I followed through with my promise and tried to work things out.

Just after our daughters second birthday I still couldn't get past the feeling something was amiss and I did start questioning things and asking if there was someone else as visits yet again were irregular which he blamed on work and the fact he was hard to contact at times which he passed off that he was a private person and didn't want others hearing our conversations. It all blew up and I ended things again as I couldn't shake the feelings off when he suddenly messaged and told me he was sending me an email to explain things he did and in it he explained about his dcs and why he hadn't said anything about them. We spent some weeks discussing what to do and trying to see if we could work things out and as I said above I have tried to move on from this.

When our son was born I was given the choice of my partner coming on the day for a few hours or waiting till he had had his 4 yr old dc a few days later and spending a week with us I felt the second option was best as it caused less trouble for him with his ex who had been mad when she had found out about me and our dcs as it would take time away from their dcs. It never did he had more contact with their dcs then he did with us we saw him once every 3 weeks and the weeks he wasn't with us he had his dc and his family's house for 3 days each week.

We have had a lot of arguments about him spending equal time between all his dc as it got to the stage we hardly saw him ano when we did he didn't engage with the dcs much. I got told I was unreasonable and was trying to make him choose and make things difficult with his ex which I really wasn't I just wanted all the dcs to bring treat equally. His dB got married earlier this year and he took his other dcs but ours where not invited apparently he family refuse to meet us until we move. I sent them Christmas cards this year but they weren't acknowledged at all.

After I found out about his dc I asked questions about them to find out what they were like and my partner even sent me pictures and I've spoken to them over the phone a few times on their request I also helped to get birthday and Christmas gifts for them. One big issue I have at the minute is as soon as his ex messages for him to have their dc he jumps to it even if it means it's on the time we are supposed to have with him and we get rearranged. Only once since our youngest has been born has he said no he couldn't and this happened on our weeks quite a lot.

His contact with us had slowly increased we now see him for 2 days every other week the other week he sees his other dcs. He had promised that this Christmas he would be here with us luckily it fell on our week. The week before Christmas he took a day off as he needed a break from his 4 day a week delivery job. I pointed out if he had done it Christmas week we could have had a day extra he replied with I'll see what I can do. No more was said even when I asked at the start of the week. He turned up on the early hours of Christmas eve which was all good we had him for Christmas day he said he was leaving on boxing day as he was working day after. Christmas day came and as he said after the move Christmases would be spent one out of every two with his parents who only did gifts at 5 pm we agreed that we would do that this year and Christmas morning all the dcs would have their stocking until later on. We explained to dcs we were doing this and all the older ones agreed to it it also meant Christmas dinner was a lot more relaxed as it seemed to give the dcs something else to look forward to. When it came to time to handing out the presents in the middle of it all as they were just starting open them up he announced he was going to facetime his ex to see his other dc. I didn't say anything at them time as he was half way upstairs as he said it but I was hurt and fuming as it felt yet again his ex wants came before us. I pulled him up when he came back downstairs in the kitchen as the kids were playing with their new toys I was told I was being horrible and unreasonable and trying to stop contact with his other dcs, this hurt me so much as the week before he made a dig that his other dc were missing out this year even though he had the dc last year and that was reason he let us down. At this point he stormed upstairs saying he was leaving I then received a text saying to pack his stuff downstairs as he wouldn't be coming back. At this point I saw red and went up and told him he was horrible and he had ruined it all cause he couldn't tell his ex that he would ring 15 mins laterror then she wanted and that I was sick of it . He then got upset and said it wasn't him it was his ex and that he felt bad and that he was sorry. I didn't want to spoil things for the dcs so I said ok he then said he had arranged to pick up his dm on boxing day at his dbs even though he said there was a chance he would not be working on the Sunday and if he.wasn't he would be spending an extra night with us he also then said he was having his other dc a day early next week for over new year.

Boxing day came and because he was up once in the night with our youngest he spent all morning in bed. He then undermined me in front of my oldest dc which them my oldest ignore me more and couldn't see why I wasn't happy. I pointed out that I wouldn't undermine him in front of the dc and if I didn't agree with something I would speak to him afterwards out of the dcs way. Things seemed to go a bit better until I got a message as he was on his way home at 7pm saying he now has Sunday off. I will admit at this point I was a tipping point and probably unreasonable but messaged that it was convenient that he suddenly had a day off at a time when he wasn't here anymore an argument followed I've spilled out everything that I'm feeling and have been for a while some are things I've said in past.

That I'm tired of his ex always coming first and that her feelings and wants constantly come before mine and how he doesn't treat our dc like his others and that I'm tired of fighting to get him to spend extra time with us and the excuse is always it's not fair on his other dcs but that it doesn't bother him when he gets extra time with the other dc.
He told me he thought we needed some space and fir first time I didn't back down I told him to take all time he needed as I was tired of fighting and being made to fee that me and our dcs come second all the time.

We exchanged angry messages as I won't argue in front of the kids and he stated I'm pushing him away and I'm never happy and that I always want more. I pointed out that he supposed to be in a relationship with me and not his ex and that he couldn't keep being more concerned with upsetting her knowing full well that constantly running when she wanted him to have their dc at our expense was hurting me and the family we have here including my dc who think world of him. All through this he was telling me I was being stupid and that I had ruined Christmas for him.

When he got home and my dcs where in bed he rang and started to say it was my fault I ruined Christmas and I was pushing him away so I aging went mad and pointed out that recently every time I tried to flirt with him he just didn't bother and hardly came near me any more I told him again I was tired of fighting to have him spend time with us and there was always excuses yet when his ex wanted him to have their dc he didn't have a problem with that only when it came to us he said again it wasn't the case became upset told me he was sorry and would try harder then asked if we could move on from this.

I don't know if we can I'm tired of it being like this I'm tired of feeling like I have to fight for things all the time. Is there a way forward from this or should I walk away. I do love him and we do plan on living together as soon as we can find a house and eventually get married. I'm not sure if this is the normal stresses of a long distance relationship I'm just so confused we have worked out other issues we have had but this one just seems to come back time and time again.

I'm sorry for this essay I'm just trying to get things straight in my head

You need proper therapy. How long did the counselling last btw?

I have had six years of psychotherapy, all in, plus many courses/groups etc. It goes on ime and it requires the long haul. If CBT isn't for you then you're not in the right place for it - it isn't your fault or cbt's fault. Don't beat yourself up!

You need to get into proper therapy for years. If money is a problem then get on the list with eg women's orgs (low cost). Also have a look at BACP site and research therapists in your area by clicking 'find a therapist', see who you like the look of, contact them and ask for low cost (most have a sliding fee scale).

As depressing as it is, the fact you've accepted such an abysmal relationship suggests there is more work to be done. Don't feel bad, there are many of us in the same boat xx

All my councilling was through my gp and on NHS was given a 6 week block each time cbt lasted 3 months as an adult. I had counselling as a child on a couple of occasions due to my emotional problems with my family. My longest time was.for 4 months after 1 of the family members who took me in died.

I will look at the site but at the moment I'm scared that counselling will be too much to deal with at the moment as I struggle to talk about a lot of my childhood.

That's one reason why therapy needs to take a long time - it takes a long time to get the courage to talk about it. When I first went into therapy I was terrified to talk about it, my stuff. Properly terrified.

I am horrified you have had a few 6-week blocks with a NHS counsellor who are generally pure crap and do more harm than good . Sadly, no funding in NHS mental health so this is the sort of shite thing you're going to get. Sorry to be so cross but it's the equivalent of giving a seriously physically injured patient a few blocks of 6 week appts with a GP.

In short, you need the real stuff and that is going to take time. Xx

I will look into it and counselling will be my next goal my first is to get through this and keep my resolve.

He's rung again he wanted to say goodnight to the kids, he's never done that apparently he's decided I've to give me a couple of months if still no house he will move into mine. I wanted to shout at him but can't just said we will dicuss it at a time I can talk. I know he is just saying what I want to hear I'm done with being so stupid I know he doesn't mean it.

As far as I can tell csa won't be open tomorrow as it's bank holiday only have to make it until Tuesday then can tell him a claim has been started and then he will choose to go no contact. I refuse to be the one to do it I know he will then say how I caused all this and I refuse to give him the satisfaction he's has too much of it from me.

He can fuck off with moving into yours. You want the relationship to end and that's that. Don't give him chapter and verse - please! - tbf he doesn't deserve it after the way he's treated you. Keep statements short and to the point, don't be drawn into answering/long explanations etc. As always, it's what you DO that carries the most weight, not what you SAY.

You've said enough - enough now. He's never going to come up with the goods so cut and run. You've enough to be getting on with with your kids, he's just a lead weight.

That's the thing it's just words to try and get me to back down. It's the one thing he knows I've wanted a proper committed relationship. If had wanted it to he would have done it a couple of years ago instead of all the excuses.

Might write a list of promises he's made in the past and tick them off as he spouts them out. I know at the moment I'm going through the motions and I know at some point it will hit me and that will be when I'm most vulnerable to him and his empty words. If I focus on ringing csa Tuesday and he then comes out with more empty promises I can reply good well until them csa sorting out your financial responsibility and watch him run.

Too many words! Don't listen to his words, don't say anything yourself. Mouth moving, he's lying. You know this.

Don't take his calls - you know he's going to drone on and on and fuck with your head and heart. You need to be strong going forward, you don't need being knocked off track by his slippery promises.

If you have anything to say to him, send a (short!) text, a statement. I'd suggest you have bare minimum to zero contact with him from now on.

I'm trying to but if I don't answer the calls then I get messages asking me to answer as he's worried there's something wrong with me or the dc so I feel guilty and end up answering.
When he does text I do try to keep my answers short but if he asks about the dc he asks why I won't tell him properly what they been up to like he's really interested.
The really childish part of me wants to give him a blow by blow account of nappy changes and all descriptions of the food the 7 month old likes to gum and spit at the minute and then when he asks why I'm doing it say well you wanted details but that would probably encourage him instead of putting him off.

so I feel guilty and end up answering.

That's why he's doing it, to make you feel guilty. So don't feel guilty! He has royally fucked you over for years and years. It's not you who should be feeling any guilt here.

Why feel guilty? Turn your phone off, or on silent, and go and do something enjoyable - a DVD, book, jigsaw, whatever, don't be at his beck and call, the cheeky bugger

YOU'RE calling the shots now, not him! He's done that for long enough

Sorry for delay in replying my toddler woke up so we had cuddles and fell asleep.

I hate upsetting people I care about and even how he's treated me I do still love him but I know that isn't enough and I know that we are done. It was one of the things I'd hoped cbt would help me in the past as I know it's something people can and do use to their advantage. I also say sorry for things I had no control over or had no part of if that makes any sense at all.

Once I've got through this I will look into therapy as I know I need it. What has made this all the worse is I do find it hard to trust people and don't let very many people close. He was one I did even though I tried to be careful after past experiences. It makes me less likely to want to trust people again. I got blinded by the promises and how he made me feel when we were together and I'm determined to do what ever I have to do to never be in this position again.

Hello Lost, glad you had a nice evening.

I get what you mean about not upsetting people and not letting people close/being careful re past experiences, I am very like that too. And I have suffered by being hurt and also suffered from being lonely whilst keeping myself "safe". It's hard to get the balance right and I am still working on it.

Something simple that has helped me is to slow things down to give me time to evaluate people on their actions over a longer time frame rather than go on their words. Still keep my guard up pretty high at times and have try not to expect too much from people though, as I can be a bit on/off. I have learned that some people are good at picking locks. People who let you come to them in your own time are often a good start.

It also helps me to think of closeness/intimacy as an ever evolving thing that can go in many directions, rather than a final target. So I try not to think I am this defended and walled creature behind a guard, that people can be kept out of or brought close to.

Instead, I try to think of intimacy/closeness as a state two people can aim at together (and it takes two to maintain it), and when they achieve a certain level of it, they can travel through life together in that closeness. Sometimes they find new levels of closeness, sometimes they find new things in life because of that closeness. But the closeness is a thing separate from either of them, rather than the result of one person being let into another. Bit like it is a car you get into together.

Hi lost. You are doing great. Use that anger. Reading your recent posts I also wonder if the limited contact he has given to you and your DCs is his way of avoiding getting CSA involved. Keep you sweet and then he won't be made to pay. Glad you are on this now. Whatever happens between the two of you, you should keep this separate.

OP - you are far too nice! You 'feel guilty' if he shows the slightest interest in contact with the kids, and you are standing in his way (by not answering the phone). Don't feel guilty - feel angry! That he is not the sort of father he should be to your lovely dc!

You feel that your dc 'adore' him - but what sort of father is he? Never there, never pays what he should for their essential things, only turns up or phones when he wants to or has nothing else to do. Or his other kids are busy elsewhere.

He is not even a good role model - and I can guarantee that as soon as you have shut the door properly on him, he will be off to the next mug girl who can give him bedspace.

You are doing so well, in getting a plan together to kick him to the kerb. And please, as Springdaffs said, get some proper, long-term counselling. Don't forget that the childhood you had took place over many years - and so will the unravelling and treating of it. It takes time, and it will be painful, at times. You will get through it though.

Thank you feeling a bit better now. Youngest is teething so needed lots of cuddles and I've been playing games with the older ones and the bonus is he has only messaged once to ask about the kids.

I've put an alarm on my phone to ring csa tomorrow morning and I've taken screenshots of when he was talking to me about his wages just in case I need them.

Reading the whole conversation now makes me angry and makes me feel like he was rubbing it in about how much money he has when he wasn't helping to pay for things for his dc. Part of me feels sad for them because I grew up without my dad around and my older dcs dad refuses contact. Had hoped that he would always be there for them no matter what but I know that won't be the case. But I also feel relived as he doesn't do anything with or for them so they won't miss much and at least they won't grow up feeling rubbish cause of him.

Good luck with teething and CSA.

He just sounds so selfish and thoughtless at best, totally deceptive, conniving and manipulative also. I know what it's like to grow up without a dad, it is sad.

If it's any help, when I got in touch with my long lost dad in my early 30s and spent a bit of time with him. I realised that he was so selfish, careless and, well, ruthless and controlling, that I had been better off without him, as he wouldn't have been good for me, or been a good influence to be around.

I totally saw why a) my mum threw him out (womanising, gambling, violence, general feckless cuntery) and b) why access visits failed after a few years (playing his new partner and my mum off one another, playing his step-kids and me off one another, general selfish cuntery).

Oddly enough, as a kid, it was me who got tired of all the nonsense when i was little (about 7) and started agitating to stay home when access visit time came. It took seeing my dad maybe 4 times over a couple of months when I was an adult for the penny to drop that I headed the right way as a kid.So I think people shoudl give kids a bit more credit for knowing what's right for them if they are given the space to make up their own minds.

So I think your relief is spot on.

Take care and good luck again with CAs, great you have the screenshots. Funny how selfish manipulators often think they are so much cleverer than everyone else that they get slack and slip up!

I've rang them and given details and they going to start the process but part of that is giving him the option of direct payments as it all changes in February.

Run into a problem now though I have to go into hospital in a few weeks for an operation as a day patient. Original plan was he'd watch the dc. I'm trying to find an alternative plan but struggling at the minute. Have the feeling he will say as long as I drop the claim he will still do it. Panicking a bit now need to get my head back in logical mode as I don't want him to control the situation again. It feels like a step back. Gonna ring around a couple of people and see if they can have the youngest 2 for a few hours.

I'm sorry your dad was rubbish too. I met mine when I was 7 he was speaking to a family member who I was with at the time. He ran when he realised who I was. I've always refused to go looking for him now. I know one person who has contact with him and he tells them he regrets it and wishes I would make contact. He's run away twice now so to me he'd probably do it again so I don't see how it would be worth it.

I think you are right to prioritise finding a back up.

Did they (CSA) mention this:

"Either parent can choose Direct Pay without needing the other’s consent, unless there’s evidence that the paying parent is unlikely to pay."

So any texts etc about not paying might be useful. Could you check with CSA if a threat not to babysit whilst you are in hospital unless you drop the claim could count as evidence that he is unlikely to pay?

And if he loses the ability to pay you direct they will charge him 20% collection fee on top of the maintenance, so its' in his interests to play nice over that. You could counter with something like that if push really come to shove. But I would try to avoid it getting to that point, your instinct to get another sitter is better.

And YY to your response to your experience with your dad, you don't need people like that in your life. Also sorry your dad was rubbish too btw.

If I knew he'd play fair and pay with no tricks I'd be happy to do direct payments just to show him I don't want to be unreasonable but I don't think he'd play fair.

I've tried to compose a text to him to let him know csa are starting a case but so far I just can't get the wording right. But I dint suppose it should matter much as end result will be same.

I've spoke to a couple of friends who have said they would if my operation was at a later date so I'm thinking of ringing and asking to change it and just explain I'm having childcare issues and hope they are understanding just don't like messing people around.

Why don't you NOT tell him, he will find out soon enough.

Why would your friends look after the kids if it was a later date? Do you not know anyone who can babysit for one day in January? Is there a creche at the hospital?

You've got to trust your gut instinct on these things, so you're likely right he wouldn't play fair.

Maybe you can't find the right words as there is no point in telling him off as it'll just give him time to get up to no good?

Think the NHS would rather that you got in touch with a few weeks to go so they can give someone else the slot, than you don't turn up at the last minute due to childcare issues (especially if you say that is why you are rescheduling, so you don't let them down last minute). They must deal with that all the time. So they probably wouldn't see it as being messed around, more that you are doing your best not to mess them around. So as long as it won't hurt your health, I would say go with that. It's good you've got friends who will do that for you.

You do know he is still married and that you are the secret family on the side, don't you?

In all likelihood his wife has no idea you exist and just thinks he is "working away" when he is with you. He's a delivery driver. It couldn't be more cliched.

That's the real reason he is so scared of the csa, because it means his wife finding out.

Stop feeling sorry for him. He is a first class twat.

I only have a very small circle of friends that I have know for years the ones I could ask I have and they already have things on the operation date that they can't rearrange and I wouldn't expect them too. They know now that I have split from him and have said that if I can arrange it to another date they are happy to have the little ones and sort the older ones if I need them too. My other friend has just been diagnosed with cancer and I don't feel right asking her as she is already going through a lot.

He definitely isn't married I joined 192 to check his address and I paid for a full check there is no record of a marriage. I just don't believe he has split fromantic his ex and I think he is spinning her the same lines as me. The driving job is set to a certain area he makes deliveries to certain hotels and entertainment places. He used to send me pics of the different venues when he first started and I know his older dc know what he does as he has sent me pictures of them drawings they have done of him at work.

To be honest I'd rather tell him for the simple fact is when our kids are older and start asking the questions I want to be able to look them in the eye and be able to tell them I tried my best to be reasonable and for it not to be a lie. I realise that probably sounds stupid but to me it will let them know I always put them first and did what's right by them.

It doesn't sound stupid- it makes yo sound like a good, honest, upright person. It's a good way to be. Just life has unfortunately taught me that selfish twats sometimes use that against you. so sometimes I am...quiet. Not dishonest, just...quiet.