Money, power, and stay at home mum!

[keziah]

I a wondering how other sahm's feel about not earning and using money earned by their partner / husband? I think this is probably a problem as old as the hills but it's really starting to bother me of late. My husband and I were quite poor until recently, now my husband has his own business and is earning a lot more. It seems though that to a large extent he regards it as 'his' money. I feel very insecure and powerless sometimes although this probably says more about me than him. The thing is that in heated arguments horrible stuff comes out from him (he usually says he was just angry and doesn't mean it). Such gems as - I should be grateful to have him - I am lucky because I have more money than abc friend etc - he has made plans and would be able to easily manage without me - could pay to have someone come in and look after the children - if we separate he will be able to hide the money etc etc etc
Although these things are said in the heat of rows they still worry me. I don't have a profession and I am not sure what I would do if we did ever separate.
Perhaps this sounds really silly - that's why I wondered how other people feel about it. I just don't feel like it is my money too, I don't feel like I've earned it. But then I think that he couldnt have got out there and earned it without my supporting him at home. He thinks thats not true because he could have hired a nanny and would have made the money anyway.
I get an 'allowance' out of which I get all the food, clothes etc and the rest of the money is dealt with by him. So if there isn't a dinner he likes he will say that he gives me all this money and he expects to have a dinner that he likes.
Now reading this back he sounds like a chauvanist(sp!) monster - he does help out and is usually nice - just the rows when it slips.
Any ideas, experiences, advice etc very gratefully received. Many Thanks...
p.s I do want to be at home with the children - I'm happy with that.

So how's it going Keziah? Have you spoken to him? Are any of these ideas any good for you?

I am lucky that I have a good man who sees his wages as 'our' money. It was a shock for me to go from complete independance to complete dependance money-wise. We only got a joint bank account when I was pregnant, we'd had separate ones before then as I was earning too and wanted my money to be 'mine', but he was never that bothered. He knows how hard it is to stay at home and keep a 22 month old entertained. I also have to deal with any household repairs and maintenance as I'm here all day. So for instance we are having building work done and it is me who has to negotiate with the neighbours, harrass the builders, make cups of tea, make all the phone calls, etc, etc. Sometimes I feel like I am a secretary too! I also pay all the bills, I always have done, he wouldn't have a clue what to do with them! So I feel that I work damn hard and am justified in taking half his wages, after all, no matter how hard a day I have had, he always gets a nicely cooked meal when he comes in to a nice clean house and a well-fed and entertained dd, happy neighbours and content builders! I would say his job is quite stress-free compared to mine! But he does help out quite a lot and he would NEVER DARE ask me what I have been doing all day or how lucky I am to stay at home! He has even said that he would never be able to do what I do and he is quite happy for me to stay at home until she is at school as he doesn't want anyone else looking after her.

Hope you can resolve this Keziah, get him to read this thread, might open his eyes to a few home truths!

Thankyou so much to you all for the advice and your thoughts. Its really helpful to hear what other people think of a situation when you are stuck in the middle of it. I think that the struggle we are having is more to do with power than money as was mentioned earlier (thanks!) because if anything it has got worse the more he earns. We did have a 'discussion' about it last night - feeling brave from reading all your posts! and it ended up being fairly amicable - He is basically very protective over his business and wants to take the credit for having thought of it, made it work etc (for his own self esteem I think) but will agree that we have 'earned our lifestyle jointly'. He is a person who reacts really badly sometimes in arguments (he has got better over the years) and can say some realy horrible stuff. He is good at apologising and says I should just ignore it and take notice of the good things he says and does (he does do some!!) I shouldn't give the wrong impression of him as he is generally a great husband - I just want to feel that he respects what I do. Perhaps if I were more confident that I was doing a good job it wouldnt bother me so much...
It has been really interesting read all the replies - I really appreciate you all taking the time to respond - Thanks a lot.
p.s like the idea about the evening classes - may well do that!

Thanks Rhubarb - your message appeared whilst I was typing mine - it has really helped to read all the advice and I see it was you who suggested the evening class - I will look at our local brochure and see what's on round here... thankyou.
Your husband sounds lucky though - mine rarely returns to any tea and the house is a pigsty I think I need to work on doing a better job at home! Its not an excuse but we have got 3 children 4,2 and 1!

Keziah, if you're looking after 3 kids under 5 all day then I think your dh is lucky to get any dinner cooked for him at all

This is slightly relevant and, of course, can easily be debated but... this article was in the Chicago Sun-Times today (it's Mother's Day in the US. I got two this year! )
Coughing up cool half-mil would cover mom's worth

Just curious - how many of you mums have 'life insurance' - both DH & I have hefty policies 'just in case the worse happens' - pleased to say mine costs more than his!! (Only because he'd get an extra pay-out from work!) - it isn't cheap, but it does bring peace of mind. If I died DH could easily afford full time care/housekeeper etc for our DS (no doubt a swedish au pair would appeal!!).

Someone I knew died suddenly leaving three young children, of course the grief was awful, but the realistics of looking after 3 children meant terrible problems for the dad & sadly, friends & relatives are only likely to help for a limited while.

DH has life insurance, but because I don't work I can't afford to take any out. We don't even have home insurance as we just get by now on the payments that are made towards life insurance and pension, etc. It is a lame excuse I know as I don't know what dh would do if anything happened to me, but until he gets a better paid job or I can do some p/t work, we have to get by on what we have.

You are right though Lindy, a girl I knew was left in a mess as her husband died aged 30, leaving her with a pre-school toddler and five months pregnant. You don't think it will ever happen to you but it can.

I haven't really been following this thread but I am a SAHM and DH and I have recently at long last got round to taking our life insurance which pays out on the first death, I assume this maybe makes it cheaper.

I suggest you print this out and let him read it!

With regard to critical illness policies, a friend of ours had one. He has had several fairly serious problems over the last few years and has not been able to claim for any of them. It was an expensive policy, he's now cancelled it and he has put the money into a savings account instead for when he needs it.

Also if anyone has life assurance policies more than a couple of years old, check the prices again. Our latest joint policy for £200K (to cover mortgage) is I think £21 a month. R

Yes Sue it is. R

I agree with most of the contributors to this thread - re joint accounts etc. DH and I have always had a joint account. Until my maternity leave I had always been the higher earner. Now I am working 3 days and DH's salary has increased to the point where it is v. similar to the full-time equivilant of mine but of course I bring home considerably less because I have 2 days a week at home with DS. However I see the money as very much equally mine and so does DH. He is well aware that we would struggle without my financial contribution (ie would have to move house) but also that we would struggle to maintain our quality of life and what level of domestic harmony we currently manage if I worked full time. So I am appreciated on both fronts. I still manage to feel guilty about spending money on myself - after all I could be spending it all on DS.....

However I think Mumsnetters may be in a minority. From what I know of friend's finances most of them do not operate their finances in this way. Most of my close friends are childless and just split the bills 50/50 and keep everything else for themselves. Most of my newer friends (ie the mothers of DS's friends)do not work and operate on the old "housekeeping" system. Nor for me at all - and I don't see why it should be for Keziah.

hey keziah

i feel for you and am in a similar situation (if not actually a bit worse right now maybe) i am a SAHM with a preschooler and a baby. i have always had a few issues with money/control and always thought i would find it hard to be financially dependant, after earning my own money.

my other half and i have had alot of money issues over the years, i was redundant and incapable of work for a year which caused alot of problems, and i have been known to have a more flippant attitude to cash than him (not hard he actually gave me a 50/50 hand written bill for our first date i think, what a freak! - and he earned about 10k more than me, but because HE had a kid and loans to repay (from his own spending) he figured we had the same disposable income so should split stuff 50/50!! go figure)

anyhoo.. we rent out our old flat and at the mo there is a few hundred spare which i often use to top up my overdrawn acc, and he used to give me 125 pw (he earns 500 a chuffing DAY!)this was actually fine with me, i could buy nice healthy food for kids, buy kids shoes and clothes, get presents and buy stuff for house etc..

in the past he paid off a loan for me with money after his dad died, he said last night that at some imagined point there was a 'clean slate' about all thise - there was not. its always there to be flung about in an argument.

as an aside, was also brought up by a v controlling, slapping dad to whom i had the reaction 'i'll never let you win, whatever you do' so was well versed in the art of extreme defiance at a young age, which may not be helping me now...

BUT when i was on holiday recently (i decided that as he was taking his other kid away to much sun that our son wld find it v difficult (he did and still is) so i said that instead of staying at home i would prefer to distract kids with nice holiday too (europe, with my mum as a thanks for her help) plus i thought why should i trog along at home while he buggers off?

so when away my purse was nicked from my bag with many euros and card etc but i only just realised that my sim card was in it too, (as i had a colossal bill leave my acc with another to follow)

i didnt report it missing as i forgot it was in there (oh yeah i was rubbish about cancelling one fone when i got a new one for a bit, then new phone got damaged so i had to use old one, which i thought was clever in the end, but he was super cross that i had been wasting cash with 2 contracts which i understand,) but the trouble is because of my previously explained defiant ways (survival skills i think) and his attitude and way of talking about cash, it never ends well... the result being, he actually blames me for my purse being nicked and the fallout, and because i didnt remember about the sim card he has now just said that its the last straw and he is stopping every penny he gives me! i am looking after 2 kids for 11/12 hours a day, feeding, loving, educating, clothing, tidying, (we have a cleaner who does a once over once a week but no tidying at all) and doing about 10 loads of washing/drying/putting away every week. he isnt usually home from work until 8 often later, so plays no part in bedtime and is away every other weekend seeing his other kid.

i am livid, but maye you also think i am a useless moneywaster like he does.. my mum has said 'you are rather wanton with money' which is prob true and a bit funny. but i have had two children and brought them up well, i have designed and over seen and lived through daily the total renovation and redoing of our house (during pregnancY) i have also coped with depression and being dignosed with blimming bipolar 2 which i hate having, and i think given all that i do a pretty good job. have not been v grown up and have told him to jog on (or F off depending on time of day) if he thinks im begging for cash - he says i'll have to ask politely, sounds like he wants begging and a power trip to me.. have also told him i will no longer be doing his washing... washing dirty man garms when he is now treating me in an unpaid slave sort of manner - i dont think so... he can do one.

he has retaliated by saying right he wont help then (he has been doing lots of nights with baby, altho didnt first time round)

i have been left thinking that if you are a SAHM there is no such thing as womens rights, nothing inforcable, no one to protect you and your dignity and your hard work (esp if you're not married)

there is actually nothing i can do about it, which in 2010 is leaving me speechless.. (if only!)

have said we HAVE to both go to relationship counselling (i had first session) or im out..

i cannot be treated like that.. even though my kids esp older would be heartbroken (i would be for them) and i would have to leave the beautiful home that is so nearly finished.. i couldnt stay to be treated like tthis..

what do you do? what are you doing?

v sorry for super long jumbled rantathon

Bokki, are you new? This thread is eight years old, so I don't think that keziah is likely to reply unfortunately!

In reply to your post, there is something you can do about it, you don't have to be treated like this, you can leave. There are lots of us on here who have left controlling partners and are surviving - be strong!

god,yes,course you can leave....why put up with any of it!!

I do think threads this old need locking!

i don't like the 'say whatever the hell i like during an argument and you should ignore it' attitude. it's crap.

time for him to bloody control himself. why should you have to listen to it? he's got to stop that. it's very hurtful, and he knows it, which is why he does it, which is why it's got to stop.

My ex is very similar to the dh in the OP.

I once said to him, you do what you do to earn money, if I as a mother and millions of mothers like me didn't do what we do the human race wouldn't survive. So who does the most important job now then?

He is an argumentative twunt but he never had an answer for that one.

Oh this is an ancient thread. How strange.

bokki, there IS something you can do about it- it's called MARRIAGE.

I don't think that marriage guarantees happiness BUT it does guarantee that the state/outside parties recognise you as an official "partnership".

If you/ he doesn't wish to marry then, I'm afraid you can't moan about lack of rights.

If I ever cohabit with a man again, it will be on the understanding that we are not financially/legally linked. I'm not having the likes of you making me tied to a partner because you can't get your act together enough to get married.

You haven't got any survival instincts - if youd did, a woman in your position would be married.

i've got survival skills alright Marantha....hence i'm NOT married!!

why live with the day to day stress of marriage,having a man around 24 7 to pick up after.....have you not seen the state of mumsnetters marriages on the relationships boards?? alot of them are being driven half mad by straying husbands and are asking how to get him out!!!!

survival skills......dont get married,and keep your sanity,dignity and status!!

fair enough, ThreeBlondeBoys. I respect that, however, bokki seems to be wanting "rights" and financial support without (or so it seems to me-could be wrong) being married.

I am neutral about marriage.
All I'm saying is that the idea of having cohabitee rights repulses me. I am going through a nasty divorce and don't wish the state/legal system interfering in my life and splitting assets if I choose to cohabit again.

And if, bokki IS married I really don't get what she is on about -for if a couple divorce, a married sahm will be entitled to certain rights and benefits in her OWN right.

If you are married then you automatically get half of the familly income. He is being a selfish prat by saying he will hide it!

At least he is not coming home and complaining about the house not being tidy enough and the dinner not on the table in time.
My friend had a husband like that and he used to stand over her and say that she was rubbish at her 'job' (cleaning house and looking after their child).
She soon ditched him and got half of everything (serves his right)

Hi Keizah,

Well done for the job your doing! I think sometimes we all feel like we are not appreciated. Maybe he also doesnt feel you say/show him that you appeciate what he contributes to the Marriage either such as have you said to him well done on his new business etc?? Like wise he doesnt sound like he is saying what a wonderful mum you are and how clean your house is etc little things like this that also make you feel wanted/aprreciated and respected. Complaining about a nice meal you have made also will not make you feel loved.

Like you said he will be working long hours with his new business so taking this frustration out on you and then you must be tired with 3 kids so its a recipe for bickering. They say you hurt and things out on the people you love. Do you get much couple time together?? This will help you to communicate more and show you both what you love about each other and why you fell for one another in the first place etc.

Is it also hes possibly getting a bit too big for his boots now he has got a new business and going this is going to his head! egos!

What job did you do before having your children? I dont want this to sound nasty but could you be feeling a little bit left behind? whilst your partners gone from a job to running a successful business, do you maybe feel a bit like you wish you was doing more with your life in terms of career?? It seems to me by what you have said you feel a bit insecure. I can understand his comments would make you feel that way too but even if he never said these comments would you feel secure in yourself that you was a mother and doing a fine job of things and that was your contribution to the marriage or would you still feel insecure?

You have to believe that what your doing is a brilliant job and accept it. If you cant the only thing that will make you feel better about yourself is to do something for you, outside of looking after the childen and housework. Do you have any hobbies? You could also like someone said do a nightclass in something you enjoy or even get a job. You can be what you want to be. Is their not anything that you fancy doing???

Dont lose yourself find yourself!

Good Luck

Rach