Bf called me naive - red flag?

[YellowPoloRolo]

Not sure what to think - boyfriend of 5 months called me naive yesterday.

Scene was roughly us sitting down at this packed restaurant. There was a couple at the table next to us. As soon as I sat down I could feel the man looking gawping at me. I tried to ignore, pretended I hadn't noticed. We ordered. My bf went to toilet. Man stared quite openly, as if he was trying to make eye contact, wife noticed, looked towards me. Man looked away. Bf came back. Man kept looking but fairly more discreetly until they left.

When they left I told bf I was relieved they'd finished because I didn't fancy having a lech gawping like this throughout my meal. Bf didn't seem to have noticed, seemed incredulous. Then said that I was pretty and it was naive of me to think men weren't going to look at me because I didn't want them to.

Dunno, can't decide whether what he said is a red flag or whether he just didn't realise he said something patronising and it's me who's too sensitive. My ex was a physically/sexually abusive cheating sleaze who obsessed over me cheating with any men I came into contact with and made my life hell. He also used to gaslight me and call me naive whenever I pulled him up on his behaviour. I feel very uneasy about males looking at me, in fact it can still be triggering for me (which bf doesn't know).

Boyfriend hadn't put a foot wrong so far, always respectful and no games, quite a gentle soul really, he seemed to like me for me. It's one of the things I liked about him, and since yesterday I feel maybe actually he's no different, I just didn't realise it. I might be naive but I just didn't like this other diner staring the way he did - so disrespectful towards his wife.

I clammed up when he said that because I was already feeling quite rattled by the staring. I'm not sure whether I should mention it again.

Posters are really telling the op she actually wasn't being stared at? She got it wrong.

Why are you saying that?

Nobody likes being gawped at and the man doing so was incredibly rude and a lech.

I do think it is naive not to expect people of either gender to check out others but its not on to sleaze over people ever.

Unfortunately women are still very often valued for their looks. DH did admit and this was after quite a few years yogether that he liked having a trophy wife. That I didn't like and we had a discussion about it. I was pushed reluctantly in to modelling as a teenager by my Mother and if anything have kicked back by not wearing make up etc. So I am also very sensitive about men looking and struggle to accept a compliment from anyone even if nice.

I would want his reaction to be that he supported you if you let him know it made you feel uncomfortable.

Don't know what to say ...

He was staring, or is ogling a better word? His wife looked pissed off. I felt sorry for her because of his behaviour tbh. I didn't mention ages because I didn't want to be accused of being ageist. They looked like they were in their late 50s-early 60s maybe and he made me think of an old lech. I'm 30 and bf is twelve years older. So there. Bf looked surprised when I told him, but then he couldn't really have noticed. And no, I never had that feeling before ever when going out as I don't walk around feeling like men are starting at me all the time. This man was, though.

Guess it's my problem because I have a past I'd rather not have, and it brought it back somehow. I had a bit of sinking feeling when bf said I was naive. Not sure why, perhaps felt a bit patronised, and not quite sure what to say.

Thanks to those of you who responded with helpful perspectives.

I should imagine the man was openly gawping at a female diner specifically to annoy his wife. Charming fellow. Bf sounds as if he were trying to make a compliment to take your mind off it ("well of course he was looking, you're so pretty") but yes, it is sexist and even if it didn't bring back memories it grates rather, when he seemed so nice. Am thinking he did not mean it the way your ex would have meant it though.

An awful lot of men (that I have met - can't speak for the rest of humanity) just do not notice the everyday sexist behaviour that most women put up with as a matter of course, even those who would never dream of behaving that way themselves. There was a heated thread on here just the other week on that very subject. Because some women do not find it threatening does not mean that others don't have a right to feel threatened by it. A lot depends on your personal history, upbringing and the circumstances. I would almost certainly have no trouble with challenging someone staring at me nowadays (although to be fair, at my age and girth it's a lot less likely) but in years gone by I'd have had no idea how to handle it. It also doesn't help that XH would have blamed me for encouraging the stranger to stare

I think you might need to tell him why you react like you do.

The way I read it, he's right. You can't control others behaviour, and you can't stop men looking at you. It's their problem, not yours.

It he a confrontational type? he probably sees you have two choices, call the man out on it, and the likely response from such a lech is I wasn't, you think you're above me, etc etc, making it your fault. Or you could ignore him, which might be your bf's preference if he doesn't like confrontation.

If you have a chat and explain why it makes you so uncomfortable, you can come up with a strategy to deal with it that both of you are happy with.

On another note, your abusive ex didn't like other men looking at you. He realises he can't control other men, and you aren't encouraging it, ie. Not blaming you, which is a good sign...

I think your bf just didn't realise how bad the staring was and how it unsettled you. I can't see anything to really worry about regarding what he said if he has otherwise been sound.

It annoys me when men inform women that they should expect to be looked at.

But to give him the benefit of the doubt he didn't actually see this man gawping and so he may have just interpreted it as a 'look' rather than a 'lech'.

If this is his first offence I'd keep an eye on him and see how he reacts in similar circumstances.

If your relationship is going to go the distance you need to talk to him. His clumsy use of the word naive has triggered for you. He is trying to say, you are pretty so men will look at you but it's not your fault, it's them.

You need to sit down and have a chat about your past so he can understand and help you deal with it. If he doesn't know he can't help.

First I'm sorry that you've had to deal with that guy ogling you like this. i doubt t it was all in your head!

Your ng reactions looks to me a very typical comment that a man would say (not that I think it's right! It isn't. But I can see how the first reaction of a non jealous man would be 'well men do look at beautiful women'). I'm wondering, seem that you ha end toms him about how your ex made you feel, that he didn't really realise how bad it made you feel. The fact he said he wished you could have changed tables says a lot. It says that he cares and wanted to make you more comfortable.

I would have a word with humans explain what has happened with your ex. I would tell him how uncomfortable men ogling you like this are making you. See what his reaction is but I suspect he will be more supportive than anything. And knowing will allow you to 1- let him know more quickly if it happens again and 2- for him to be more aware and support you too.

Then said that I was pretty and it was naive of me to think men weren't going to look at me because I didn't want them to.

I'm sorry but he's the naïve one to think that women should not find this offensive. A man glancing at you because he thinks you are attractive is normal, and in a way can be flattering. A man gawping at you as if you're a piece of meat just because he want's to stick his cock in you, with no consideration for how it may make you feel, is not normal, not flattering and not something you should have to put up with. On top of that HE doesn't get to say what YOU should be comfortable with.

You say you feel everything has been going well with him so far, I'd have a chat with him about it. Explain why it made you uncomfortable, and why you don't like being patronised by him telling you you're naïve, when this is not the first time you've had to deal with the male gaze I'm sure. I think his reaction to this conversation will tell you everything you need to know about him.

Good luck OP>

Yes, agree with pp.

Regardless of situation, I don't want to be told that I am naive. I'd accept that our areas of cynicism don't overlap exactly! Or that our faith in humanity doesn't overlap exactly. But nobody gets to judge me naive because I feel I have the balance just right :-p

Anomaly gave great advice. I would do what she suggests for sure.

Talk to him. Tell him how you feel and about your past. After 5 months you should feel comfortable enough with him to open up, even if it just a little.

BTW my husband doesn't think men gawping at other woman is ok, ever. However, he does think it is a common occurrence and hates men who do it but

OP this bit

he did say he wished he'd realised because we could have sat som
where else, which we couldn't have as it was packed.

There you go. That was an acceptable response wasn't it?

this is the new MN? taken over by wo/men who gaslight the op and take the side of the man who was being visually aggressive to the op. I've had thta sexually aggressive staring thing , op , so has my dd and so have many women. Trust your instinct and if your bf is not on your side , then he is against you.

this is the new MN? taken over by wo/men who gaslight the op

Who has gaslighted the OP!? overeating or what

for you OP

How is it gas lighting? Nobody other then the op knows the situation anx even that is her take on events. A few of us merely suggested other takes on the situation.

Even if the op got the wrong end of the stick or not, her bf said he would have moved which to me means he cared about how it made her feel. That's all that really matters.

I don't know about gas-lighting but I think it's really rather odd when a woman says she has been intimidated by the way a man has been gawking at her to suggest that actually she got it wrong.

Really, really odd reaction.

Depends how the conversation went. A lot of people making a lot of assumptions here.

I'd be livid if someone called me naive because I objected to being oggled.

He is effectively telling you that you have to expect shit like this and suck it up, fuck that.

He is showing quite a nasty attitude regarding the sexism you had to put up with, how is he the rest of the time?

I don't think it's a red flag. At worst it's a nice compliment clumsily dressed.

You can't stop people from looking or letching, so you need to know how best to handle these situations so you feel less awkward and exposed.

Not sure myself but some assertiveness and confidence coaching?

I'm not considering splitting with him. I also didn't want to make a fuss over nothing, hence the post.

My ex was a grade a bastard, he used to imagine men looking at me everywhere I went, accuse me of encouraging them and make me 'pay' for it after. My bf isn't anything like this, I know that. He's not jealous, aggressive or confrontational. I posted because his comment made me feel a bit like the little woman, and it's not something he'd made me feel like before. That was what I was asking about. I have baggage and he can't help that. He did say I should have told him and we could have moved table and that was thoughtful of him. I've said nothing at all to him about the naive comment. I said nothing at the time. I bottle things up. I need to open up more to him if he's to understand, I agree. I find that really difficult. The only time I told him about a trigger (he'd suddenly put his arm round my neck a bit tightly and it made me panic) he moved immediately but didn't say or ask anything. He didn't seem comfortable. It's making me hesitate to share more. I don't think he's very abuse aware.

Anniegetyourgun thanks, you've said it better than me. It's exactly how it felt. The situation's made me realise I haven't moved on as much as I thought I had.

I think you can take it 2 different ways.

"I was pretty and it was naive of me to think men weren't going to look at me because I didn't want them to."

1. You're gorgeous and you don't realise how gorgeous you are (compliment); or
2. Suck it up buttercup, men are going to look at you and you can stop them (with an unsaid "me either because you're mine now and I'll look at you when I want to").

I think you're reading #2, which is why you think red flag. I think he was probably trying for #1 but I'd keep an eye on other signs that upset you.

I would hope though next time you would mention when you're feeling uncomfortable and he would "protect" you by changing seats or something (you could have asked he switch with you because the guy was weirding you out).

I wouldn't mention how he made you upset, but I would try and figure out why you didn't feel comfortable mentioning it to him and try and work on that.

I do think you are right, OP, this is a pink flag. Really men are the naive ones who haven't a clue about what it it like to be oggled, as I have witnessed when male friends of mine have had to walk past a gay beach and couldn't cope with the types of comments that women have to deal with every day.

So I do think he was out of order calling you naive about something that he is the one with no experience in.

Why didn't you tell him at the time and suggest to swap seats (as the lech was facing you if I've got that right)? It would've avoided a confrontation but let lech know his behaviour had not gone unnoticed.

What do most women expect a husband/boyfriend to do in this scenario, seriously? Be that asshole that accuses everyone of "you was lookin at my burd!"?

That's a bit callous irishdad79. We don't expect men to change the behaviour of other men but they could just acknowledge that the behaviour did cause offence. Simple. So instead of saying "whaddyawantmetodo?" say, no feel yes you are right it is offensive.

You can envisage no response but be an asshole? That's a massive lack of imagination on your part irishdad.