Young children and husbands.

[BusyCee]

Before I go on I don't really know why I'm posting, other than desperation really.

I've got 3 DCs, the eldest is just 5 and the youngest is 11wks. It's really hard, obviously, I knew it would be. Don't have parents or family to help out, although oldest is at school and middle goes to CM a couple of times a week

But I'm so bastard bastard tired. I've had 10hrs sleep in the last 48, as a result of a combination of baby not settling in the evening, wrapping Christmas presents, cooking (to feed and advance prep for Christmas). We've had family guests last night and this eve, then I have my sole Christmas event on Monday (for which I have to get ready with the DCs creating their usual havoc, drop the oldest two with sitters, take youngest (and probably BF all eve) and then leave early to collect, all the while having not had a drink because a) in BFing and b) I'll be driving), then I have to do a late night supermarket shop because I failed to book a delivery slot early enough. The children won't give a shit about Christmas really and DH is usually grumpy for some reason I haven't yet got to the bottom of (but it happens every single bastard year). I love Christmas but know there isn't anyone who really gives enough of a shit/takes any responsibility to do anything to make it enjoyable for me. If I want to 'do' a tradition I have to sort and then try to grit my teeth and bloody force myself to enjoy amidst the endless complaints bickering and whining.

I had hoped that the youngest two would be asleep while DH toon eldest to a friends for an hour or so, so I could get some rest. But guess what? The baby woke as he was leaving, I know she won't sleep if I put her down now, and sure enough she feeds, goes to sleep on the boob, but wakes the second I move her. So I can sleep.

Had a grumpy face a big sigh and a minor strop as DH was leaving and his response? 'This is the way our life is. You just have to get to used it'. It ENRAGES me to the point where I just wanted to scream and storm out. I feel so disempowered and utterly lacking in control. I talked to him on Friday about going back to work at the end of Jan for 8hrs a wk, just to give myself some space. But he thinks baby is too young for the CM and doesn't want to give her formula. For the same reason he's just about to veto my night out with the girls in Jan. He thinks I should express milk for her...but I just don't get on with it can't bear the final physical indignity of being an actual dairy cow. He points out that others do it and just can't or won't comprehend that I just don't want to do it.

Fuck fuck I could go on and on and on and on. There so much inequity between us at the moment. He can't understand why I'm so frustrated and angry and I think he just criticises me all the time. I don't think he cuts me enough slack given what I'm doing at the moment...in fact I don't think he's grateful or respectful of it.

Maybe I wonder why, given this whole thing ^^ is such a bloody cliche, men and women keep having this experience. What can I practically do to make it better? I love him and want it to be ok. But right now I could cheerfully actually murder him.

I've just caught up on the thread.

DS1 was... demanding... I remember very little actually.... DP would take a shift moving DS between windows, would take him for baths (sometimes 3 times a day) to give me a break, he was the one that gingerly suggested we give formula a go so I could get a block of sleep. It did pass, but DP was there at my side all the time sharing the load (without me having to ask)

But Anyfucker, it's not that I'm making excuses, or staying because being single is intolerable. I actually do like him - and I enjoy spending time with him (when I'm not knackered and prepared to commit violence) He's intelligent and funny and interesting and successful and kind and generous and I fancy him. There's this one aspect where he falls, and I suppose that while I'm at home and he's out it forms a disproportionately large part of my life and a disproportionally small pet of his.

I don't subscribe to men shit/women good lark. And nor do I think that men just aren't good at caring/picking up washing/general domestic stuff. I think we all affect and effect our own relationship dynamics. What I'm interested in, I suppose, is why the pattern is so similar in so many households with small children - and why we don't have a formula for changing it, or even managing it more effectively. Genuinely, I don't understand. For gods sake, thousands and thousands of couples every year face seismic changes in the relationships as they reproduce - why don't we do it 'better'?

And I suppose I think it's not just about whether he lifts a finger - because I think my perspective is skewed by the fact the he enjoys life out of the house, while by this stage I'm feeling claustrophobic and overwhelmed by the physical proximity demands of the children. So I don't think it's as straightforward as 'does he do the washing up'.

Agree entirely that what dc3 gets fed is ultimately up to me. But he does have a right to an opinion - as longs it's one that takes into account what's right for me too.

I'm certain that my perspective is affected by the fact that I'm almost institutionalized while he's out in the wide world. Also that my anger is just a symptom of these other feelings that come with being a SAHM (for me - not the same for everyone I know).

Bear in mind I didn't think he was an entirely selfish twunt before the children - or while we were on a level peg. Maybe it's the inequity - how far apart our lives have become - that's so galling and frustrating

And no I haven't read Wifework. Am off to google and buy right away...

Hermoine, they stay, because marriage and relationships are a measure of success in their circle. The amount of botox, fillers etc; you cannot believe. They just do it because if they don't 'he', all mighty 'he' will leave.

elendon - a different world to me! I don't understand how an unhappy marriage is worth holding on to.

Er. Elendon, Hermione...assume that's not directed at me?

OP, your subsequent posts are back tracking.

If you truly valued yourself and expected him to value you this selfish behaviour of his would not be an issue.

We do ourselves no favours at all when we say "in all other ways (than being a person who observes us on our knees and looks the other way) he is great"

it's purely the way we convince ourselves to stay

if we knew all this shit would fall to us, we would never have kids with such men

unfortunately, by the time we realise this, the sunk costs are immense, so we have to justify it somehow

that is what you, and so many women every day, are doing

OP, I was commenting on Elendon's story

Applauds anyfucker yes, the sunk costs fallacy has a lot to answer for. I shall start teaching my kids about these and other cognitive biases.

He perhaps has a right to an opinion about the feeding, but he doesn't have a right to a say. If you're not able to feed the way you want to because there'll be an argument OP, that's not ok. Or normal. Not all of them are like that you know.

Btw this would be equally true if he were trying to pressure you into stopping breastfeeding when you wanted to keep doing it.

I actually don't think he has a right to an opinion when it comes to your exhaustion and telling you if you can go out or not based on his preferred way for your dc to be fed. And if he's got one then he should keep it to himself!

I'm gonna get shot down for this but I don't think formula is the silver bullet here. What you need is some sleep, and formula is not necessarily a guarantee of that. Unfortunately your DH cannot bf, but he can handle lots (read most) of the other crap while you deal with the baby. Also I agree with a poster further up, kicking your DH out of your bed so it's just you and baby will probably help you get more sleep. Sounds counter intuitive - DH not on hand at all, but the extra space will be great. Plus after a couple of solid nights on sofa (spare bed?) he can and should have the energy to take all 3 kids out so you have an hour or two to yourself during the day to sleep or do whatever you like with.

Btw, not saying you shouldn't have your girls night out or return to work, just reacting to the posts that formula would give you a rest . . .

Giving the odd bottle of formula has saved both breastfeeding and my sanity.
It means dh can do a feed, and I get a chance to just lock the bathroom door and be alone. Luckily dh is a useful specimen.

I have just the one 11 week old and having him has made me realise that anyone who has more than one child is bloody superwoman.

Carve out an hour at least a day for yourself. Give your lo a bottle for just that one feed and go lock yourself in the bathroom with a book. Let your dh deal with it.

Your dh has zero right to insist you express - you are the boss of your boobs

You need a break. children, whilst wonderful, can be soul crushingly exhausting and it sounds like you're doing way more than your fair share.

You are doing an outstanding job. Practical thoughts:

1. Start to introduce a formula feed for last thing at night each night. DH can administer so you get an early night ready for night feed. It will also make it easier when you do decide to introduce formula further down the line.
2. Xmas dinner this year I went to Cook. The frozen food people. Google them. You can buy the whole dinner and can all be cooked from frozen in three hours. They even give you a timing card. Stress free.
3. Personally I wasnt up for nights out. Don't feel you have to go. You are putting extra pressure on yourself.

A good nights sleep will really help. Any chance you could afford a night many for one weekend?

AnyFucker, Elvedon, Hermione. After a bath and a ponder I started to write a long post explaining that I understand why, reading my own earlier posts, it looks bad, and that your responses and the bath have helped me unpick it a bit and blah blah blah....but I know I don't need to be defensive. I just want to reassure you by which I mean clear my name for any future posts I might be judged on that I'm not a door mat and he's not an utter twunt. Nor am I minimizing, making excuses or backtracking. But there are many complex layers to this for me.

I did make a cri de couer earlier - but that, along with your responses and those of other posters, reminded me that I have control and responsibility. I have picked myself up, metaphorically dusted my self-pitying carcass up, and am ready to crack on again, now I've remembered who 'I' am. And who 'DP' is.

That includes carving out time for me to be nurtured, remembering how I sorted out sleep/bottle/boob with previous two, getting a sodding grip about food at Christmas and being a bit more kind to us all

OP, "remember" that your DP is not a higher being than you

Acknowledge that and you will not go far wrong

Not sure why so many people are being so goady OP. I hated my DH at times when we were in the new born sleep deprived stage. Everything felt unfair cos I had boobs and he had work. But it was because I was tired and emotional. He didn't do everything I expected because he isn't a mind reader and was also tired and emotional. You're in the thick of it now, you needed a rant to get some clarity and it seems you got it. Be kind to yourself you're doing great and you and DH will barely remember this bit in no time.

I think I would always remember very clearly being so badly let down by my supposed life partner at such a vulnerable time.

Only a complete shitbag plays competitive tiredness with a mother breastfeeding a small baby through the night.

A husband with "opinions" about whether you're allowed to work, socialise, or stop breastfeeding isn't treating you as a human.

The unequality is not inherent here, it's something he is imposing on you.

Your life would be less "like this" if he was working alongside you.

Going out to work doesn't stop a father of 3 small children getting totally stuck in to family life.

If he's still "out in the world" in the same way he was before he had these multiple children, then he's not doing fatherhood right.

Your defence of him doesn't make him sound like any less of a twat than your OP where you described his veto over you leaving your own home.

There actually is no stress-free solution, though, is there? Unless you can afford round-the clock staff.

Her: I'm so tired I hurt all over and can't think, and what about the millionty things that need doing??? - True. She is not exaggerating.
Him: I'M FUCKING TIRED AS WELL! I work, commute, worry, don't get a decent sleep and you're like an unexploded bomb! - Also true.

See, this line of (very natural) argument can only be pursued as competitive tiredness. The new mother's going to win it 99.5% of the time, but this fact doesn't make the competition any more fruitful.

What you need is clear explication of the issues and clear problem-solving. Which it seems you and DP are now doing, BC :)

Ideally, of course, all the problems would be pre-visioned, pre-empted and solved by mutual agreement on the spot. But life isn't much like that.

I do agree there are some elephant-sized feminist issues here, however.

Her: I'm so tired I hurt all over and can't think, and what about the millionty things that need doing??? - True. She is not exaggerating.
Him: I know, what the fuck have we done?! But it's OK, I can cover the millionty things, you have enough to do with the baby.

It's not actually that hard to be nice to someone you love who is struggling.

My DH is not famed for his empathy, and he managed it.

If someone who is barely getting any sleep tells you they are tired, why make it all about you?

Unless you think you are more important than them?

You are right, Bath.

I know I become unreasonable when very tired. Props to everyone who can manage exhausted and reasonable, including you & DH! And OP, for wisely seeking reason on MN :)

Oh OP . We had exactly the same age gap and I was SHATTERED.

On a practical note, I screwed up the on-line Christmas shop too and we were going to have to do it in person, but today I signed up for Morrison's and they had loads of slots.

Why are you entertaining family? Can you go on strike, just this once?

This hell of sleep deprivation is worth it when they are bigger and you have nice close age gaps. Take care