How do I have this conversation?

[thinkfast]

I feel I need to find a tactful way of speaking to DH about the way he plays with DS who is 4. I should first of all explain that DH is generally an excellent partner: helpful and hands on and this is the only issue.

My view is that DH goes too far and doesn't realise the effect he can have on DS. DH thinks I'm making problems where there aren't any. Generally they get on well- DS adores play fighting with DH in particular and DH is very hands on but I feel sometimes he thinks DS is older than he is and DH lacks some emotional sensitivity when playing.

By way of example, if DS is eating a treat like ice cream or sweets, DH will pretend he's going to eat it, resulting in DS shouting no and gulping the treat quickly. I've asked DH not to do it and explained that he should nt be made to feel those treats are at risk, but he is adamant DS knows he's pretending.

Or this evening DS had a tummy ache and needed the loo. He was wearing a cowboy outfit so I took off the holster so he could go to the loo and put it down on the kitchen counter and went to help DS in the toilet. When we came back DS wanted his gun and holster straight away and I pointed to where it was for him. Before he could get it, DH grabbed it and started playing with it. DS started screaming for it back and I told DH to hand it over. DH got cross for being "told off" in front of DS. I said how would you feel if you ran into a room looking for something and before you get it someone 3 x your size grabbed it and started using it. DH said DS knew I'd hand it to him in a minute. I don't think DS did know that.

Or DH does "spooky" laughing which sometimes DS loves and laughs at but sometimes he says stop it daddy it's scary, but DH doesn't stop until I step in. Again DH says I'm playing with my son and we re having fun whereas I think he goes too far

How do I explain this to DH so that he "gets it" without him feeling like I'm having a go at him? Or is DH right and am I making mountains out of molehills?

Ps sorry for the long post. There are other examples but I've probably waffled on enough

That's it exactly OP, they don't pick up the nuances in DC's response the way we do so don't realise it's gone too far until it's already too late. I know in my DH's case it comes from a good place, he wants to make DD laugh and have fun with her, in our case I think I'm over sensitive to her feelings and he's not quite sensitive enough and we need to meet somewhere in the middle.

I hate this sort of "play". It's not fun for children to be scared and made insecure.

It's like adults in shops saying "Ooh is that for me!?" to toddlers with icecreams...I want to say "No, piss off" because small kids don't GET IT!

I think it's more complicated than his DF not being able to read social cues. I bet he doesn't misread his friend's responses to jokes or steal his boss' stuff until they get angry/upset. So he is capable of reading the cues, he just think it's ok to ignore them when it's his DC either because he thinks he's teaching his DC how to be teased or because he is being a bully.

It's also worth remembering that just because your DH's family has a culture of teasing, it doesn't mean they were all happy with that. Our family had that 'culture' most of us kids hated it. It was the adults who allowed it to develop.

As long as your DS knows you will intervene then you will find out soon enough whether he enjoys it because he will tell you. You need to be ready to hear what he says.

I don't like teasing, tickling and other aggressive forms of play but just throwing this out here: Is it really OK to micromanage the DH's relationship with his son?

He's an adult, presumably a decent one as the mother chose him to sire her children. If he sees fit to do more scary play than the mother does, who's to say she is correct in her criticism and the DH is the one in the wrong?

I see so many cases of women complaining that men won't do their "fair share" of childrearing - but then when they do it's only OK if they do it exactly as the mother sees fit, whether it's meals, sleeping, play, etc.

No wonder so many men disengage when their every move is second-guesed and when the mothers feel free to get between them and their spontaneous interaction with their kids. The mother has no more right than the father does to determine what is "too scary."

worth remembering that just because your DH's family has a culture of teasing, it doesn't mean they were all happy with that.

Yes, very good point. One outcome of my therapy was that I stopped laughing merrily at my siblings' insults and borderline bullying - I also stopped dishing it out. It surprised me that I really had to be quite sharp, several times, to get the message home that I no longer find it hilarious when people are nasty.

It's sad to think that we were trained from babyhood to be cheerful about being hurt. However, my family was grossly dysfunctional; no-one would want to emulate it! There are fairly clear lines between gentle teasing and the bullying kind. I assume people from 'normal' families instinctively know where these lines are.

I do think four's too young to understand teasing. It is basically dishonest behaviour, and we can't expect 4-year-olds to second-guess that we're lying or be able to tell whether we've really lost control.

That's unfair criticism, Lea. What thinkfast wants is for their child to determine what's too scary, and have the power to stop it.

Garlick your point about having to speak sharply to your siblings struck a chord with me. As an adult, I had to have a similar conversation with DSIS and DM. DSIS was apologetic and admitted she hated that culture too. It took a bit longer to get through to DM

LeaLander I don't think the issue is rough play per se. The issue is play that the DC finds upsetting. There are various books that advocate rough play but the DC has to feel safe. It's about them finding their strength and feeling secure. I've never read anything positive about play that genuinely upsets them (whether rough or scary) so I guess I'm trusting that the DM can see and judge the difference. And I think it's important to teach DCs that difference too eg you might feel scared about trying something new or you might feel scared at the top of a rollercoaster but that's a different type of scared to feeling threatened or in a situation that is outwith your control and that you don't know when it will stop iyswim meh I may be waffling, it's 2am and I can't sleep for coughing

But she admitted that her intervention might be skewing the child's perception.

A Place on the Couch, my point is, why not trust that the father, not just the mother, can see and judge the difference? Why is the opinion of the mother assumed to take precedence over that of the father?

I'm trusting the child LeaLeander. Even in the example given by the OP, the DC said, 'stop' before the OP intervened.

And fwiw I don't think it is gendered. I think there are mums who misjudge it too. It just so happens that in the OP's case it's her DH who isn't listening to the DC.

Honestly I don't see much wrong with it as long as it's not prolonged and mean spirited.

As a child's some of my earliest and favourite memories are of some of my relatives "teasing" me by pretending they were gonna have something of mine, tickling me, or blowing raspberries on my belly. I would shout stop when it happened but i loved it. Even my relatives joked around and they were some of the best people I've ever met,from a young age I could tell if something was mean spirited or not from them.

I think the distinction is how things are handled from those around and if the child knows it's well intentioned, and just because they say it's scary or to stop doesn't necessarily warrant a bad thing, for example Halloween a lot of children get scared at Halloween, the movies, costumes etc but they still love it and look forward to it even though they've said they were scared