How do I have this conversation?

[thinkfast]

I feel I need to find a tactful way of speaking to DH about the way he plays with DS who is 4. I should first of all explain that DH is generally an excellent partner: helpful and hands on and this is the only issue.

My view is that DH goes too far and doesn't realise the effect he can have on DS. DH thinks I'm making problems where there aren't any. Generally they get on well- DS adores play fighting with DH in particular and DH is very hands on but I feel sometimes he thinks DS is older than he is and DH lacks some emotional sensitivity when playing.

By way of example, if DS is eating a treat like ice cream or sweets, DH will pretend he's going to eat it, resulting in DS shouting no and gulping the treat quickly. I've asked DH not to do it and explained that he should nt be made to feel those treats are at risk, but he is adamant DS knows he's pretending.

Or this evening DS had a tummy ache and needed the loo. He was wearing a cowboy outfit so I took off the holster so he could go to the loo and put it down on the kitchen counter and went to help DS in the toilet. When we came back DS wanted his gun and holster straight away and I pointed to where it was for him. Before he could get it, DH grabbed it and started playing with it. DS started screaming for it back and I told DH to hand it over. DH got cross for being "told off" in front of DS. I said how would you feel if you ran into a room looking for something and before you get it someone 3 x your size grabbed it and started using it. DH said DS knew I'd hand it to him in a minute. I don't think DS did know that.

Or DH does "spooky" laughing which sometimes DS loves and laughs at but sometimes he says stop it daddy it's scary, but DH doesn't stop until I step in. Again DH says I'm playing with my son and we re having fun whereas I think he goes too far

How do I explain this to DH so that he "gets it" without him feeling like I'm having a go at him? Or is DH right and am I making mountains out of molehills?

Ps sorry for the long post. There are other examples but I've probably waffled on enough

I was going to say- we all parent differently, best let go of small things- then I read of your dhs behaviour and it's really, really annoyed me.

Why not snatch away his dinner, refuse to return his phone or keys and see how he likes it? Jeez.

Could you have the conversation with your 4 year old. I mean if daddy is pretending to steal his treat maybe you step in and say 'daddy's being silly isn't he, that's not for him' that sort of thing

Sort of reassurance towards your son rather than criticism of your husband if you don't feel he will listen?

Youaremyrain makes sense to me, too. Teasing becomes bullying when the target stops finding it funny. Your child was upset when his father took his toy holster away, and has expressed fear with "stop it daddy it's scary".

That's a great way to teach a child it doesn't matter what he says or feels.

I hope you manage to get through this time!

When it happens, how do you react? Do you get all upset and stressed on your DS behalf?
I ask because my DH is a bit of a teaser. He pretends he's going to eat the chocolate, hides things etc.. But even my 3 yr old knows that he's just playing because I make sure that she does. Both my 3 and 5 yr olds will look at me and I just grin and laugh and say isn't daddy being silly!!? And they just laugh and say don't be silly daddy and walk off. There would not be tears, Tantrums or gulping of food.
From what you've described your sons reaction sounds A little excessive to me, especially for a child of his age.
Now only you know how far the teasing is taken and if it's truly beyond what's acceptable but a previous poster is right. Teasing happens and is something your son will encounter in many scenarios especially school.
Perhaps part of dealing with it ought to include helping him recognise it for what it is better and reacting differently.

My DH is the same and it drives me mad, he doesn't seem to get that it's me who has to deal with DD's frustration when he's wound her up. I find it unpleasant to watch and would never 'play' with a child that way, I just don't see how it's fun for anyone, including DH, to see a child wound up and frustrated. That said DD adores him and he's definitely the 'fun parent' of the two of us, he was the same with DSC who are now pretty much grown up (late teens) and both idolise their dad and are confident, well balanced young people so although it doesn't sit well with me it also doesn't appear to have damaged either their self esteem or their relationship with him. I have spoken to DH in the past about it and asked him to tone it down, he does for a few days and then 'forgets himself' again and it all goes back to normal. I step in when I feel it's going too far which I don't like doing as I worry I'm undermining him as a parent but I can't let it continue when I can see DD is getting too wound up. It's not the solution I'd like, in an ideal world DH would know when to stop and I don't understand why I can see it but he can't when DD's had enough. Maybe it's just a difference in parenting styles and the way we currently deal with it is just the way it naturally balances out, I don't know and will be following this thread to see if anyone has better solutions but it does seem to be a problem quite a few of us have and I remember my SD being much the same when I was a kid so maybe it's more 'normal' than we realise?

I would hate this. My MIL does this 'oh, have you Brought that teddy bear for me?' carry on which immediately puts dd on her guard.

I'm just imagining being at work and coming back from the loo and someone has hidden my keyboard. It would make me feel insecure I think.

You need to feel safe with your own father. That he's got your back not that he's out to get one over on you.

I guess you just need to explain to him that he needs to tone it down as you can tell that DS isn't enjoying it, if he ignores that then he is an arse? This kind of 'play' winds me up too, does he also tickle him even after he has been told to stop? That is the worst example of this type of behaviour IMO. Thankfully my DH isn't like this, but we do have friends and family who can't seem to read the cues that enough is enough, it's strange.

Some suggestions. No idea if any good but:

1. Why don't you ask your DH if you can give your son (and you) a safe word or phrase?

My DCs and I often have a rough and tumble tickle on Saturday mornings - from the off we have agreed that the phrase "Please will you stop" is the signal for - well - stopping. So giggles and squeals (from them and me) are all OK. "Please will you stop" and the tickling stops immediately.

So agree (all three of you together) that you have a phrase to use when rough play, teasing, being scary, tickling - what ever it is - has stopped being fun and/or is upsetting. "Stop I don't like it" or like ours.

2. Maybe suggest to your DH that they have been doing stuff as nursery/pre-school and it is important that everyone is happy with how the play is going and that there is kindness. Try and take the "you vs him" out of it - and "blame" school if you like.

3. I am very sure you have just read an article - about bullying and how early play and understanding of boundaries is important. And how important it is for parents to show "good" play. Your DH needs to know that it is not good for DS to see that unkind play by bigger people is OK. That taking something from smaller people is not OK. Maybe depersonalising it by referring to an "article" will help.

4. Make it a "developmental" step. Now DS is x years old he needs to have his boundaries respected....yadeyade - again - read it in a book kind of thing. If you can find relevant articles etc then great 0 but if not - It can be "something you read in the Drs surgery waiting room and have been thinking about since"

Good luck. You are doing the right thing.

I can't bear it - my ex dh used to do it until a DC cried then he would laugh at them for being a baby, and say he was only joking. He also maintained he was doing nothing wrong. He also stole food from their plates which annoyed me and upset the DC. He did it to me too- always drinking my water. Because he knew it annoyed me and I couldn't stop him.

The problem is your DS will learn this and do it other DC, and get into trouble, not know how to behave etc, how to be kind, how to share. You could tell your dh it's a shame he is already making social problems for your DS.

I think it's all about power and control - teaching his child he can do pretty much what he likes and there is nothing DC can do except learn you are the one who is nice and protects him/ stands up to him.

You could try taking his phone away and saying no, later and see how he likes it. No much, probably. But of course it's different for him, I expect - one set of rules for him. One for his DS.

DH crawlng round the floor tonight with a rug over his back making tiger noises. DS (11 months] laughing hysterically until one very big roar and then burst into tears scared. DH 'What? It wasn't me who scared him?'

Yes it was. I was sitting at the other end of the room with the cats who were watching it all with disdain.

DH 'It must have been something on the telly. He was laughing at me'.

Grrr!

Right we've had a chat and DH says he's taken on board my comments and will think things through more and will remember DS is only 4 and imagine things from his viewpoint.

To some of the posters who view this as v extreme behaviour, I am sure that if you were to observe it rather than see my poor written description you'd see its milder than it sounds in black and white. For example we had today:

DS: do your spooky laugh
DH: mwah hahaha
DS; again
DH mwahaha
DS: more spooky laughing
DH: (loudly) mwahaha mwaha mwahaha
DS: stop it it's scary
DH: mwah hahaha
Me: DH stop it now you're scaring DS

I agree with the poster above who said my reaction may also be to blame. Maybe if I'd said something like "look DS daddy's being really silly and funny" DS would've kept laughing, so I am going to modify my behaviour too

Re the gun and holster incident, DH said the gun was too far back on the counter for DS to reach so he was passing it to DS, but playing with it on the way, whereas DS just wanted it handed over ASAP. I guess everything is just a matter of perspective really...

Oh and to the poster who asked about tickling - no DH doesn't do that

Loving the "safe word" suggestion. Will suggest to both of the and see if it works

Iamlovedbyg please read my updates and you will see its more subtle than that

I think there's also a cultural difference in our backgrounds eg if someone in his family got caught in a rainstorm and came home drenched, they would fall about laughing, including the one who was wet, whereas if that happened on my side, we'd be consoling the person, rallying round with hot drinks and towels etc. they just approach life from a banter/laughing side whereas my side is rather more serious...

Iamloved I think you are missing the point that DH is not cruel and is gutted to think he might be doing something wrong; the issue is that in my opinion jokes/play can be taken too far by DH without him realising DS is no longer having fun. There's lots of "stop it. Again. Stop it. Again" from DS and which is why I think the suggestion of a phrase that he means stop it is an excellent idea. I'm going to suggest DS says "stop it I'm serious" to mean he's had enough of the game

To put some balance in here
Kids do actually like to be scared sometimes as long as they can stop it. And as long as they feel safe.

As in the spooky laugh scenario. You can hardly blame dh for doing it if ds asked him to. If as a kid you get a wee fright followed by a big safe hug it can be quite harmless.

Otoh my EA ex deliberately scares the kids then laughs. He has thrown them off roundabouts and swings by turning them too fast. And he teases them by calling them names like idiot child and ridiculing them. This is part of a pattern of generally being EA. If he scares them he does not then reassure them he teases them for being weak (note he is my ex. Sadly still their dad though).

He also does things like swinging them round and throwing them in the air which they actually like. Which makes it harder to police.

Your dh doesn't sound like this.

The chat sounds good op.
Your dh needs to learn to listen to your ds and make his intention clear. I.e if you are trying to make your kid laugh the point at which they stop laughing is the point at which you stop.

Iam Re the shock horror at "Safe Word" see my post above. It was my phrasing/wording. We have a "stop it" phrase when fooling around with DCs. They like, no, love being tickled, but I wanted us all to know when to stop. I think it is positive thing, not something to get all about.

Youaremyrain is on the money tbh. I get that your DH would be devastated if he was accused of being a bully and I don't believe that he is doing it on purpose but that is exactly what he is like. He has to be told to stop upsetting a small child and brushes it off as banter. Thats like when someone says something and when another person doesn't like it the first person says 'only joking' as a cop out.

I know you've spoken to him now but it shouldn't be a 'sensitive ' conversation. More like ' what the hell do you think your playing at!

Whathaveilost you've hit the nail on the head and sorry to hear about your ex

I think the difference is I notice the subtle change in DS from the I'm having fun "don't stop it to the I mean it " stop it" which DH doesn't always pick up on.

Iamgeorge when I tell DH to stop it he always does but up til now he may well disagree with me as to whether or not DS was actually enjoying something and says that DS just copies whatever I say when I intervene. (DS does have a tendency to repeat what I say to others)

Iamloved you clearly haven't read through the thread.
People have different parenting styles and personalities. Like op has said it's not alol down to him, she's looked at it from another perspective and understood where her husbands coming from.

I think if you cannot even take a step back and see other perspectives before shouting commands to your partner in my eyes that's when you've got problems

I see what you mean :) I really hope this evening's talk has done some more good. FWIW, I think "stop it, I'm serious" is a good idea if it gives DS control over how scared he's willing to be at any time.

It's always sensible to look into your own responses, too, and I can see what you're saying about different family cultures. As long as you never feel you're laughing off something that really upsetting your child, easing up could lighten the whole situation.

Hope this all works for the four of you now.