Finally having it out with FIL

[SparklyTinselTits]

I've had a moan on here before about FIL, but know it appears to be finally coming to a head. Sorry for long post, but don't want to drip feed.

I've been with DH 5 years, married for 18 months, and have almost 8mo DD.
DH has never had a real relationship with FIL. FIL left MIL when DH was 3, and never made an ounce of effort to have a proper relationship with DH. He swanned off and got remarried (wife number 3, was married before he married MIL), had another son. As you can probably guess, that marriage also went down the shitter.
FIL and DH reconnected just before I met him, and have more of a "mates down the pub" relationship, than a real father-son relationship. In recent years, FIL met a woman who had recently become wife number 4. They live in the middle of nowhere, a few hours away from us, and have a little miniature farm.
DH's new DSM is, to put it bluntly, the most self-centred person I have ever met. She's the least maternal person on this planet. She literally recoiled away from DD in the few times she's seen her. All she ever talks about is herself, or that fucking farm. It takes every ounce of my effort to not scream out loud "no one cares about your barstarding pigs other than you!"
Safe to say, our idea of a real family, is very different from FIL+WifeNo4's.
My parents live quite a distance away from us as well, but regardless, value the time they spend with DD, and make the effort to come over to ours or we go over there a few times a month, and both my mum and dad ring a few times a week just for a chat and to see how DD is doing.
FIL however, does not call, has only been to our house twice in 5 years, and has seen DD 4 times in her life - 3 of those times has meant us driving the 2 hours there, for me to stand in knee deep mud out in the cold/wind/sun at the fucking farm while holding newborn DD. The other occasion, was DD's Christening. We were expecting FIL, WifeNo4 and DH's step brother to be coming. The day before, FIL calls and says he will be coming alone. Ok, whatever. I'm always ok with avoiding conversation with WifeNo4. He came to the church service, along with all of my extended family. DD fell asleep just as the service ended, so I was just about to pop her in her pram to walk down to the community centre where we were having a buffet and the like. DH comes over, and says "Can Grandad have a cuddle?", so I said, can he not wait until we get to the community centre and have a cuddle when she wakes up. Apparently not. As FIL was leaving there and then. Is it just me, or is that just fucking unbelievable? That he couldn't stay for an extra hour or so in order to spend some time with his granddaughter on her christening day?!
Since the christening, we have heard hide nor hair from FIL. Not even a phonecall. And when DH has tried to ring, he's got the anserphone every time. DH got a text the other day, asking what DD would want for Christmas. A minute for her grandad to actually seem to want to see her maybe?!
After that DH decided it was time to ring FIL, and confront him about his behaviour. He made it quite clear that it seems FIL does not seem remotely bothered about spending time with his granddaughter, and that I am beyond furious about it. FIL seems oblivious that he has done anything out of the ordinary
He's now decided that he will make a visit even though he needed to be prompted by DH to do so, and I have requested that he come alone, without the heartless cow WifeNo4. Which is all ok with her apparently (yay! ).
Now my question is, after all this crap, how do we handle this visit? DD is a very clingy baby. She freaks out if I hand her to anyone other than DH or my mum, and cries if I leave the room. I'm worried how she will react to FIL, as she has only seen him a handful of times, and most of those she was a newborn.
Also, I'm pretty sure FIL will be very stand-offish with me, as clearly this is all my fault, as he has done nothing wrong in his opinion.

I'm dreading it.

I'm astonished at the response the OP has had on this thread. Have I accidentally stumbled into AIBU?

OP is disappointed that her child's grandparents are disinterested. There's nothing weird, or entitled, or ridiculous about that. DH confronted his father and said his behaviour was poor in their eyes. His father could have shrugged and said, "Oh well." but he's a least coming for a visit, which OP is now rethinking as it may be awkward. The judgemental comments on here are rude.

OP, I think you should approach this visit in good faith, but if it doesn't work out, or turns out to be a one off, don't push it any further. I'm a big fan of "if they don't want anything to do with me, stuff them". No point trying to force a difficult relationship.

I think YABU.

If someone had posted on here to say that their DIL had expected them to drop a busy farm life to do a 4 hour round trip drive for a Christening and had told them that for some spurious reason their DSpouse wasn't welcome to attend, we all would have told them to forget it and not to even think of going.

Yet, your FIL made that big effort which no doubt caused a bit of marital friction with his DW to boot. Even after you had been pretty sneery and unpleasant about his home and wife. Then you didn't even want him to have a quick cuddle with the baby.

Obviously nobody is perfect, and he was not a good dad to your DH, but he sounds like he's trying as much as he can, and you sound determined to throw every little effort back in his face.

So you've basically forced a highly disinterested grandparent to drive 2 hours to see a small baby who is likely to scream her head off.

You've insisted that he travel down without his spouse and made it clear that you dislike both of them, their lifestyle and the things they hold dear.

And you think you've done nothing wrong?

OMFG.

The worst thing about all this is that by trying to force a relationship that doesn't exist and shows no inclination to do so, your husband has been set up to be rejected all over again. Except this time his child too.

I have a closer and more pleasant relationship with my dentist.

To answer lots of questions:
-We do get on with DH's mother, she sees DD regularly, as do the rest of DH's paternal family (great grandma, aunts, uncles etc)
-FIL & Wife pay people to help at the farm, so the animals were definitely not the burning reason why he left the christening.
-also re: christening, MIL did not attend as she had a holiday booked before we booked the date for the christening, so no awkward ex-wife encounters for FIL. And the rest of DH's maternal family live abroad, so none of them were there either.

• I dislike the wife for many reasons, not just because she doesn't like babies. She's snarky, and selfish, and never had a nice word to say about anyone or anything. Finds fault with everything other than the pigs .She doesn't like me either btw. Massive clash of personalities.

My big problem appears to be that I'm struggling to accept that people don't want to be involved with their grandchild....I guess FIL always has and always will be a "sow your wild oats and leave" kind of guy, and I need to get my head around that.
It's upsetting to see my DH still clinging on to the shred of hope that his dad can change he said repeatedly while I was pregnant, that he was scared of being a crap dad because he never had anyone to show him how to be a good one which IMO is really really sad.
I will go out during the visit and leave DH, DD and FIL to it. Then in future, let FIL make the first move or lack of, as the case appears to be

Goodnight, I think everyone understands the OP is disappointed, but she's really not being reasonable if she expects a man who has been an absent and uninterested father to his own child to suddenly have a personality transplant now that there's a grandchild on the scene, especially when she admits herself she dislikes him and his wife intensely (to the extent to banning his wife from visiting) and there are other circumstances (geographical distance, a farm, an unapologetic dislike of his wife) that mean the FIL is unlikely to be the type who pops around to see the DGD at the drop of a hat.

I want to know what the OP's DH thinks about the whole situation, as he's the one in danger of being most hurt by it...?

X-posted with you, OP. I think you need to step back and be glad that your baby has three interested, involved grandparents, and let your DH and his 'D'F work things out between them. Essentially, you can't control your FIL's behaviour, only how you respond to it. I still think it's unreasonable to ban his wife from visiting, though - if you really want him to be more involved, this is hardly going to help.

Ok, now I am starting to think that you may be enjoying the drama of this, and maybe even ratcheting it up a bit.

Surely if family, GPs etc was as important to you as you say then you would not have booked your DDs Christening for a day when you knew your DH's mum was going to be away on holiday?

This isn't in AIBU!

"It's upsetting to see my DH still clinging on to the shred of hope that his dad can change"

Yes of course.

You're upset for your daughter & your husband.

Just be there for your husband if he is let down.

She's snarky, and selfish, and never had a nice word to say about anyone or anything. Finds fault with everything other than the pigs .She doesn't like me either btw. Massive clash of personalities.

Er.

My big problem appears to be that I'm struggling to accept that people don't want to be involved with their grandchild.

Absolutely, and being confused and disappointed are very natural and normal responses. However, your current solutions are neither healthy nor proportionate solutions to the problem.

"My big problem appears to be that I'm struggling to accept that people don't want to be involved with their grandchild"

Yes but you are also thinking that because your own family of origin is nice and kind. Your reasoning in this instance is flawed but people can and do behave like this. Its not your fault or your DH's that his dad is the way he is (you did not make him that way).

You simply cannot apply your above sort of thinking to your DH's dad; his family are dysfunctional and thus the "normal" rules get thrown out and disregarded.

Anyway if he does visit I would not readily go out. The three of you come as a part of the same package, you are as much a part of your family unit now as your DH and child are.

NotWeaving Yes I actively dislike fil's wife, and FIL isn't my favourite person, but there is no way I am enjoying any of this.
My DH is being let down again, and my DD isn't getting to know one of her grandfathers

But you don't like them!
They do not being you joy or happiness!
So why do you want your child to get to know them? It's not compulsorY
Have the people you love in your life, who gives a hoot if she doesn't know one of her grandfathers, you do not like him and he was a crap dad.

Let it go!

I think you're conflating two different issues here.

One is the baggage that your DH has as a result of his abandonment as a little boy by FIL, which is a very real and important issue that may or may not be amenable to improvement. It's understandable that you feel for your DH, and perhaps also that you judge FIL for his behaviour towards him, but improving his relationship with his father is for the most part a job for him, not you, will only happen if they both want it, will take time, and is unlikely to happen in response to a list of demands from you.

Because your DH's poor relationship with his father has become a newly painful issue in the context of becoming a father himself, I think it has become unreasonably connected in your mind with your hopes and wishes for your DD. You speak disparagingly of the fact that FIL has been a 'sow your wild oats kind of guy', but the fact is that the level and quality of contact and interest you are trying to broker between your FIL and your DD is something that might present itself as unwelcome to any grandparent. You don't have to be a serial love-'em-and-leave-'em type to be uninterested in babies, while conversely you seem to have a vastly overinflated idea of just how interested everyone ought to be in your baby.

DH and FIL clearly have some work to do if they're to improve their relationship and frankly I think you're getting in the way of that process rather than aiding it, by pontificating somewhat unreasonably about all the respects in which FIL falls short of your idea of the model grandparent, on top of his undoubted shortcomings as a parent. FIL travelled quite a distance to come to a christening that he may or may not have been interested in because it was important to you and DH, but all you can focus on is that he didn't stay for the do afterwards and had the audacity to want to see his grandchild before he left (presumably because he is interested in her actually). He is now making that long journey again to see her for the fifth time in 8 months and you've 'requested he come alone'? I think this is pretty horrible, and hardly likely to broker the improvement in family relations you say you want.

I think you need to try and separate your sympathy for DH from your preciousness about DD, and take a long hard look at the behaviour your confused motivations are leading you to indulge in. At the moment I think you are just taking advantage of DH's anger about the past to fuel resentments of your own in the present.

DH has never had a real relationship with FIL.

This is what you put. Think about it.
FIL left MIL and family decades' ago. He and DH cobbled some kind of awkward mateyness but truth be told that's all FIL could manage.

DD is at an age where she's probably screaming at the sight of anyone other than her parents in close proximity, not just Daddy's father. If a visit does happen try not to let FIL think he alone generates that response.

The people who are in your DD's life already and the ones you meet later who genuinely mean something are the ones who matter, not the estranged ones. It's a pity that life isn't as ideal as we'd likeit and you don't have two sets of doting grandparents. Wave that dream goodbye.

Thank you all for your responses.
I realise now that I am being quite precious and a bit PFB in thinking he should be interested in his only grandchild.
I will leave DH and FIL to their own devices when it comes to their relationship...if FIL will reciprocate DH's feelings about wanting to fix it, then great. If not, then I will be there for DH.
With regards to my wanting DD to have two sets of loving grandparents, I guess it is a bit of a stab in the dark

2 or more sets of loving, engaged grandparents is a wonderful thing but pretty rare and (luckily) unnecessary for a happy childhood. I grew up with 2 grandparents I saw rarely (both lived in other countries, the other 2 were dead). I loved my remaining grandparents very much and they loved me but distance and language meant they weren't a big part of my life.

If your daughter has 3 grandparents nearby who are involved with her, she'll have more than I had - but it's no big deal and I don't feel deprived or that I missed out in any way.

Well done for seeing what everyone else on the thread saw from the beginning. Step back from issuing demands and let things develop naturally, whether he steps up or not, it's not for you to dictate, and as pp have said, I think your input is hindering instead of helping

sparkly I would like to congratulate on taking advice and taking a more measured view. You show maturity in that.

Blossom I guess me being bitter towards the whole situation would set an appalling example to DD as she gets older and understands. Yes I don't like FIL, but I would never verbally bash him in front of her. Time to take a step back and let it pan out on its own

I think it's important that you can be aware of your own processes and control your own actions, but not those of others.

My DH is being let down again, and my DD isn't getting to know one of her grandfathers

Your DH is only being let down if his expectation is that hid father sees your daughter frequently. Lots of Grandparents live miles away and still have a good relationship with their DGC even though they only see them a few times a year.

As for your daughter, well she's 8 months old, and he has seen her 4 times. That's actually not bad going plus at this age she isn't going to remember him anyway. If he isn't a baby person perhaps he'll be a bit more interested when she's older and has a bit more personality?

I have had this experience and it's upsetting until you get your head around it.
My PIL have only seen my DD once and she is 13. They have only seen the eldest two once in 13 years too although they are 22 and 19 and are used to it. They live 15 minutes away.

The thing is, and I mean this kindly, you need to get over it. Your children won't suffer unless you layer sadness and misery on to them. They won't know any difference. Two sets of grandparents isn't a given, lots of perfectly happy children don't have that for loads of reasons.

If you want your DH to be happy help him build his own happy family. That's what we did. DH was sad for a long time then he realised that his parents attitude had made him value being a good father and was a weirdly good example. He understands how simply having a parent who cares is the most amazing thing.

My advice would be to stop focusing on this one issue. You are not helping your child or your husband. You are actually placing your feeling, your lack of comprehension at the situation and your imagined sense of loss for your child, above everyone else's feelings.
Going out and leaving them to it is churlish. I would be at home and happily be the loving family we are, not letting anyone else dent that.

You can't make his FIL different. You can't make them care more. All you can do is persist with your anger and make matters worse.
Be a host. Greet your visitor and drop the emotion down a notch.
I can meet my in laws in a perfectly friendly welcoming way if I bump into them in town. Their disinterest impacts me not a jot.
Interestingly they tried very hard to create a relationship with my 22 year old when he hit about 16. He's not interested - he is very polite but gently rebuffs their suggestions to meet.

Children don't miss what they have never had. All your upset is (honestly) about you. If you can get over that and leave them to it then everyone - most particularly your DH - will be better off.

and for sparkly - you must be feeling a bit raw with all of this, and we've all piled in a bit (myself included).

I bet you're doing a great job with your dd, you and your dh are both showing her a great example of a loving family, a loving extended family with the other dgp, and ultimately you will also show her how to deal with dysfunctional family members with compassion but without losing your own boundaries.

Appalling example to DD - really it won't be though.

He sees her often enough. Lots of people only see GPs that often if they live far away. She'll prob love the farm.

He behaves himself when he does see her. He doesn't shout, swear, scream and seems to want a cuddle and appropriate times.

Yes he won't win Granddad of the year award but neither is he abusive. She has another set of grandparents who will presumably dote on her.

From her perspective it will just look perfectly normal.

FWIW both of my granddads were utter shits. One of them had died before I was born and the other I remember as a lovely charming man. Only found out after he'd died that he was completely useless. Your relationship with them is not your kids' relationship. If it's not abusive, just let it be.

Why do you think that your FIL will suddenly decide to be an amazing grandfather when he has shown you and your DH that he was a shit father? Shit parents make shit grandparents. You are being ridiculous in trying to force this - why would you want to expose your DD to someone who doesn't deserve her attention? Just because he happens to be a blood relation, doesn't mean he gets an automatic right to see her or should even want to see her. It's your job as a parent to protect your DD from toxic people.

Also, regarding the visit - you are being completely unreasonable by heading off out when your FIL comes to visit. You've already said she's clingy, and she doesn't know him that well. She'll probably be more distressed if you leave her. Around that age, babies make strange with people. Stay for the visit and hold your DD - you don't need to hand her over. I don't like passing a baby around like a parcel for people to hold - it's upsetting for babies to be passed around to people that they do not know.