Meeting the OW

[Chucklecheeks]

I need to meet the OW. DH moved out to live with her last week after what's looking like a six month affair. We have two children so they will be meeting her at some point. I need to see and speak to her. Am I mad?

I won't even consider the kids meeting her till I have.

You can't be selective about what you trust him with, iyswim

This. I can't imagine that your Aspergers is making this easy at all, but your DC have a father and he will make decisions about who his children see. You need to be appealing to him as their parent to slow things down, rather than putting down rules which he will rebel against.

Are you sure he is expecting them to meet her? It does seem very early even if he is all up in the air with his emotions, he must have a bit more common sense than that?

In my opinion

He sees no wrong in them going to their house.

I'm so sorry, I completely understand how you're feeling, I found out about my husbands affair last Xmas. I felt that need to know the OW, to speak to her, to find out how a person could knowingly do this to another human being. Also my self esteem was in tatters I needed to know how she was better than me, why he had chosen her over our family.
I didn't meet with her, we exchanged text messages. She just lied to me, made excuses & told me sob stories about her own marriage.
This woman does not care about you, you will get no peace from seeing her, there is no answers she can give you that will make what she's done ok. Look at what she's done, that tells you everything you need to know about what kind of person she is.
I understand that feeling of losing control & in a sense it's true. You can't control what he does when he is with them. If your ex decides to introduce her, she will be in their lives whether you meet her or not, & whether you like her or not. I'm so sorry I know how hard that is.

"He won't ask his parents. They have made their disgust of him clear and he doesn't want to put them out. "

Initially though everyone needs to think of the children.

If it might be easier for them to travel to/meet/stay over at his parents when seeing him.

I don't think that OP has a right to meet the OW.

I understand why she would like to know that the relationship is stable before her children are introduced into it, but don't think that longterm she can refuse overnights just because she hasn't met the OW.

I think it might be worth thinking through what the best outcome for you would be if you were to meet her. A big shouting match won't help at all, an apology will be really hollow I imagine and she's obviously going to tell you she'll be good with the kids, but that's your ex's job anyway. If she did agree to meet you (not that likely IMO), how is it that you would want it to go?

It will adversely affect HIS relationship with the DC if he brings them to her house so soon.

You need to stress this, he should imagine how the DC will feel going to her house. It is more than likely to make them feel as though they are not important to him and make them hate her for breaking up their family and hurting you.

He is an idiot if he doesn't see that.

He needs to realise that now he has become a NRP he needs to work extra hard to ensure his DC know that he loves and cares for them.

How far away is he living?

Could you suggest that for now, he just travels down and sees the DC and then travels back again? It may not be convenient for him but that is tough isn't it?

I agree with PP I don't think you will gain anything from meeting OW. You say you will know what sort of person she is from meeting her, but that simply isn't true is it? She has every right to refuse to see you, and you have every right to avoid overnights until things have settled down a bit.

However, eventually, it will be unavoidable and you may NEVER meet her. You will have to accept that your DC may have a relationship with her and talk about her, and hopefully that they like her.

I know this is all awful but you need to take a step back and think about ways to manage your anxiety at this really difficult time.

How old are your dc and how have they reacted to their df's departure and absence from the family home? Are they aware that he has gone to live with the ow and does she have dc?

If your dc are over 11yo they are of an age where their wishes should be taken into account with regard to how often they have contact with their df and whether they want to meet the ow/see him at her home and stay there overnight.

If the dc are younger and more particularly if the ow has dc of her own who are living with her and their df, great sensitivity will be required to help them adjust to what may be a change in your/their circumstances that could cause them to become (more) conflicted if it is not handled wisely.

Taking into account the age(s) of your dc, and presupposing that your h has demanded asked that they stay overnight with him and the ow next weekend, I would suggest you inform him that you intend to petition for divorce and that your respective solicitors can negotiate childcare arrangements that are best suited to the welfare and wellbeing of the dc.

In short, stall - and continue to stall until such time as you are satisfied that the dc are sufficiently settled emotionally to meet the ow.

As for you meeting her, I would suggest you put that plan on the back burner until you have consulted a solicitor who specialises in divorce and family law with a with view to divorcing your h for adultery.

Offred,

The only reason the father needs to 'work' extra hard to ensure his children know that he loves and cares for them is due to his leaving the matrimonial home for another relationship.

It has nothing to do with him being a 'NRP', which he cannot be as the term, for good reason, no longer exists.

I have been in this situation, and did not want my kids to meet the OW. However, the DCs dad is as much a parent as I am, whether he lives with the DCs or not. I did not have total control and I had to accept that. This is the first, and one of the biggest issues that you just deal with. My DCs dad did loads of stuff I didn't like or disapproved of - I just had to suck it up. He was still their dad.

It's not fair to make it difficult for the DCs to have a relationship with their dad. It's not their fault you and he have split up.

I really don't know what you think you will achieve by meeting her. I think you have to find another way to alleviate your concerns.

It's nothing to do with his relationship with OW or him being the father.

It is the fact that he does not live with his DC anymore which makes him a non-resident parent in the ordinary meaning of English words.

Not sure what your agenda is in making such a fuss tbh.

I know I don't have a legal leg to stand on

You have no shortage of legal and moral legs to stand on and should avoid knee-jerk reactions to issues that need to be addressed in a cool and calm manner in order to ensure that any upset to the dc is as minimal as it is possible to achieve in such circumstances.

Don't rush - or be rushed - into agreeing anything relating to contact at this particular time as you may inadvertently set precedents which are damaging for the dc whose needs should be paramount.

Just because he's enamoured of the ow doesn't mean his dc will be, and more particularly if he's playing df to her dc. The bottom line is that if he can't see the harm that may be caused to your dc by rushing them into overnight stays with him and the ow, then he's not fit to be entrusted with their welfare at the present time.

No agenda, just that the term 'non resident parent' no longer exists.

The arrangements for the children will mean that they will be 'resident' with both of their parents in the future with the amount of time being agreed by both equal parents.

Please be careful OP about using your "needs" as a reason for not allowing the DCs to have overnight contact with their Dad.

If he chooses to go to court, his legal team may well use that as evidence that your own "needs" are incompatable with the needs of the DC's and you may find yourself fighting to prove that you are a "good enough" parent.

Its far too soon for him to be introducing her to the children anyway. I'd be insisting on around six months before I'd be wanting that to happen.

I think it is relatively common for someone who has had an affair and moved straight in with a new partner to feel drawn to using the DC contact as a means of validating their new relationship.

Especially if everyone disapproves of what they've done.

It's not something which is ever in the best interests of the DC. It would adversely affect HIS relationship with them though most likely. It is not something that would make them feel loved and valued.

I am actually someone who really values and appreciates the input that step parents can have on DC lives too, even if they began as OW/OM. I just think it stores up lots of trouble for the future of you don't make the DC the priority in introducing the new relationship.

I'd be insisting on around six months before I'd be wanting that to happen.

You may insist, but what if he ignores you? In that situation, the DCs get caught in the middle, either being asked to keep secrets from you, or, if you do know where they have been, feeling guilty that they have had a good time somewhere you don't want them to be.

The term NRP does still exist. It describes parents whose children do not live with them.

The shared parenting provisions do not override the welfare principle and still in the majority of family breakdowns there is one RP and one NRP because in the majority of families childcare is still done by the female partner before the split.

If men want more equal split of care on divorce/split they need to make sure during the relationship they provide a more equal amount of care for the DC.

Yes, you can't insist.

You can make your feelings, and the reasons for them, clear but you have to respect the fact that he is an adult and their other parent and he can make the decisions he wants to in the end.

Offred,

With child arrangement orders there is no longer any use of 'Resident or non resident' parent.

Only equal Parental responsibility and shared care, which can be of many different ratios. Unless you mean one parent does have the children living with them overnight at all? Even then I have seen a father with 'shared residence' that was only having 2 hours contact in a contact centre a fortnight.

You do realise many fathers become in the past became 'NRP's' through no fault of their own.

Many mothers became RP through no fault of their own.

Yes the child arrangement orders changed the language for court cases but the language still applies in the benefits system, in general use outside court cases and is still good English.

The shared parenting provisions were brought about by lobbying from families need fathers and are based on the system in Australia which has categorically failed to improve that actual sharing of care or things for families.

In fact your whole contribution to this thread is an example of how the whole idea of shared parenting transfers the focus from the rights/interests of children into the rights/interests of parents (usually fathers).

Of course a parent (male or female) who doesn't live with their children is accurately described as a NRP in plain English. Being territorial about kids doesn't do any good - whether it is seeking status as a RP when you see the kids for 2 hours on a Sunday or whether it is refusing to let the DC meet the OW until you have scrutinised her...

All the pissing all over them doesn't help them move forward.

My four have two dads btw. One who has in ten years just managed to work up to one overnight every two weeks and is therefore a NRP and one who I share care with, he even has shared care with his two step children. It's an insult to him as much as me to call XP a RP or claim he shares care. He has not bothered with parents evenings, plays or school pick ups/drop offs and only seen DC when he has his mum/wife/GF to help for the whole of their lives. XH has however been to every parents eve/play and does an equal amount of care - he is correctly described as a parent who shares care.

Your statement about shared parenting is completely false and demonstrates your lack of knowledge in these matters.

The terminology used in the benefits system is of no relevance. It is outdated and divisive but it would cost too much money to create a system which would share child benefit accordingly to each parent. The term 'Primary carer' is often used, especially on mumsnet, to exert some kind of power over the other parent. The reality is that with shared care fast becoming the norm, one parent does not have power over the other when it comes to child arrangements.

I took exception to you stating that 'NRP's' have to worker harder to ensure their children know they love them.

I completely agree with other posters that say it is completely unreasonable of the father to be thinking of introducing this new girlfriend to the children at this stage, never mind having them sleeping over with her there.

But legally, there is little you can do unless there is a immediate risk to the children.