What is a normal functioning relationship like in the early stages?

[giroux]

My marriage ended three years ago (badly of course) and during this period I have slowly started dating and have met (through various means) 4 men in the three years.

Two were lovely, but of course they are not the ones i went for...the two men i got involved with were both depressed, super smart, intelligent, artistic, alcohol abusers.

Both were totally fucked up, emotionally unavailable and came out waving tons of red flags but i chose to ignore these because the 'rush' i got from being with them was so good. The intensity that this kind of unhealthy man gives me is addictive and in both cases they were often phoning/texting/emailing up to 50 times a day for the first month or so (clearly not normal right?).

Sexually things were addictive but I'm not even sure why as both had ED problems linked to their depression/ alcohol abuse and smoking .

Both were middle class and extremely successful in their chosen fields, which i found attractive (probably due to my low self esteem...) Actually, they are both titans in what they do, but absolute losers in every other facet of their lives.

This is the pattern of romance for my entire life. Why do i do this?

Why can't i manage to enjoy the normal stages of a normal relationship. Right now i am talking to two lovely blokes online, the fact that they don't contact me constantly is disconcerting for me. Once or twice a day makes me feel unwanted but i think that this is more normal (is it?).

The fact that they are not obsessed with meeting me TODAY and spending every second with me feels like they don't give a shit. So, i guess what i'm asking is, is this what the start of normal relationships are like?

I want to have healthy relationships, i don't want to be alone and i don't want the dark moods that result from these unhealthy relationships to tip over into my children's lives.

I am happy and successful and have good relationships in all other areas of my life and i function very well as a single person, i just can't seem to resist dark, twisty men.

Help! All advice on rehabbing myself so that i can have a normal relationship one day would be appreciated!

Sorry a few typos there but hopefully it makes sense. I do believe in general intensity is unhealthy. It doesn't mean you don't like each other if you're not intense at the start, it's just respectful to the other person to hang back a little bit to make sure things are going to work.

Giroux, you sound very self aware and thoughtful. I agree, there have been some really insightful comments on this thread and I hope you don't mind me nicking some of the advice you've been given!

Pathetic fallacy, that is a lovely story. Your relationship sounds really good. It's made me realise that I probably have warped expectations on timings. For example, Before reading this thread I'm not sure I would have held out 6 months for someone to tell me he loved me. I'd have assumed it wasn't going to happen if he hadn't said so before then.

The thing is, it's not just self esteem and a sense of security that that is needed with these 'slow burners', it is patience and I don't possess much of that!

I do get what you mean now I have thought abour it. I believe people get the intensity with different kinds of men. I get it for the loving, good dad and good person types. Whereas I have a friend who gets it with awful men. It is strange what we are naturally attracted to personality wise, as that is what people seem to gravitate towards.

Hi OP

I have the exact same problem. I am not sure about you, but something happenned to me that took my self esteem and then I became just like this. If a guy isn't messaging 50 times a day and being prolific with his comliements and declations of intention and how wonderful I am I feel like we've got no connection or chemistry, or I presume he's seeing someone else or not that into me.

Also for some reason, when someone evidently ISN'T that into me, I find all these reasons to keep belieing maybe he might be.

It's a very strange dance and for me a cause of a lot of angst over the past year.

I think sometimes someone can extra 50 times a day and be really into you. Sometimes they can text once a week and be really into you. It all depends on who they are and how busy they are and a million other things. I read into everything and over analyse everything. Many times I have pushed people away or even dumped them due to perceived slights.

I agree it's got nothing to do with the man, it's from inside of you. Normal women / people should be able to date casually for a few months without NEEDING somene to communicate in a certain way and them asking to see you or speak to you should be evidence enough that they like you. Them wanting to see you every moment or talk to you every seconds might well mean they like you a huge amount, or might also mean they re a player OR just bored and a loser. Neither one is an indicator of long term success.

For long term success I think you need to be able to navigate the first few months of a relationship without feeling like you need proof of anythign and just get to know them slowly, not investing too much and not sleeping with them too soon.

It was hard for me to adjust to a man who took six months to say 'I love you' but he was saying it with his actions. He was thoughtful, kind, didn't pressure me. Because he's a good, decent man, he didn't want to say anything he didn't absolutely mean. That's why I do think that it is often a good sign. He's still here, where the intense men are long gone.

The other sign was the way he never ever speaks about his ex wife with disrespect and he's a thoughtful, loving father to his son. Our dc haven't met yet and again, that's because he doesn't rush things, he waits until he's sure and I respect that. I can't think of many people I could phone in tears after my car and the pavement had an untimely meeting and who would be at my side in ten minutes and just...sort it. He drove me to work, fixed my car and even put petrol in it. The intense men? They just texted a lot and said how amazing I was.

Actions and consistency are worth so so much more.

I am glad you have found a normal man now fallacy. It is quite sad you were impressed by a man coming to get you when your car had broken down. I would expect that from most acqaintances so would definitely expect it from my partner.

It wasn't just that he came to get me. He called in late to work, then roped his boss into helping him to fix my car, bought a new wheel for me, fitted it and filled it up with petrol, before meeting me at work with my car all sorted. I can't think of any acquaintances who'd do that and not take a penny from me. So yes I was impressed!

"We also text each other whilst we were seperated at work."

Interesting choice of phrase. Going to work is just a normal part of a day, so why view it as a separation? Do you really want to be with each other 24/7? I just keep thinking of that old saying "absence makes the heart grow fonder".

I think you can be very much in love, and yet not feel a need to be with someone all the time. And certainly in the early stages I think you're just getting to know each other - and that does take a lot of time. Yes, you can have a great feeling about someone early on and it can work out brilliantly. Or you can have a great feeling early on and it can all go belly up!

I think as well that actually, you don't need grand gestures. The car thing meant a lot to me, because he was there when I needed him. True, it wasn't a big deal. But it was to me. It's hard to explain but he's just reliable. I trust him. It was hard at the beginning when he was moving house and we went two weeks without seeing each other and he was texting every other day. But I'm glad I stuck it out.

I am always breaking down (old car) and just write it on facebook and I suppose I do expect someone to help me fix it or tow it because somebody always will. That has actually given me food for thought as never really thought it was that rare.

I don't have many friends (introvert) and my family aren't brilliant so I probably don't.

There's a self help book - I think it might be The Road Less Travelled - that I read in my twenties which was a total eye opener to me about unhealthy relationships. It said there is a massive distinction between being 'in love' - that obsessive thing you describe OP, and 'loving' someone, which is a sustainable, strong, happy, relaxed feeling necessary for the long term. The author said most people in dysfunctional relationships run a mile when the 'in love' period fades and the 'love' begins. I used to be so guilty of that. I remember feeling furious that the man I was seeing had suggested a night in watching a film while he cooked. I thought at the time we needed to be building bonfires on beaches and staying up all night forever if we loved each other.

So, yes, early on there's lots of sex and talking all night and texts. But the key thing is the desire for that to fade so that a proper intimacy can grow. In this, it is possible to do mundane things, be ill, feel down as well as up, want to spend time with your mum or at a dance class more than you want to spend time with your lover at a given moment, without any of this being a threat. You can discuss laundry and cat sick without feeling stifled or like life is passing you by, because it's coupled with lots of very good stuff.

Today DS was on the phone to his dad while I was out of the room, telling him about some good news he'd had. When I came in I asked what his dad had said about the news and what he told me made me laugh so hard I got this surge of love for DH that he is still so funny after 20 years. That to me is love. I still adore things about him. he can still surprise and delight me, but the core, sustainable stuff of day to day boring duties and activities doesn't threaten the passion. And for that to be true, you need to allow the passion to drop to manageable levels, away from obsessive behaviour. That doesn't mean its weaker. It means its more balanced and holds its place in life among other things.

I would describe the second explanation as intensity to me. The being there no matter what is the intensity. Always there for you from the off, films and nights sitting in. That is the intensity I am on about. Real, true relationships with no drama. I have never had that without the intensity.

I totally agree with that. We spend a lot of time doing nothing and it's lovely. We joke about how boring we are! Trips to IKEA are enough when we're together, it doesn't have to be all romantic dates. But that's a bit further on, I probably wouldn't have been impressed with that as a first date!!

I think it's very dependent on the relationship. Dh and I feel for each other almost instantly, it felt right - not too much. He proposed after 2 weeks and we got married after 6 months....15 years later we are still very happy. With other men before dh if I saw them twice a week it was too much.

Exactly higge. I was always trying to ditch my exs on nights out for my friends!

I think if you don't look forward to seeing them then that's never a good sign