What is a normal functioning relationship like in the early stages?

[giroux]

My marriage ended three years ago (badly of course) and during this period I have slowly started dating and have met (through various means) 4 men in the three years.

Two were lovely, but of course they are not the ones i went for...the two men i got involved with were both depressed, super smart, intelligent, artistic, alcohol abusers.

Both were totally fucked up, emotionally unavailable and came out waving tons of red flags but i chose to ignore these because the 'rush' i got from being with them was so good. The intensity that this kind of unhealthy man gives me is addictive and in both cases they were often phoning/texting/emailing up to 50 times a day for the first month or so (clearly not normal right?).

Sexually things were addictive but I'm not even sure why as both had ED problems linked to their depression/ alcohol abuse and smoking .

Both were middle class and extremely successful in their chosen fields, which i found attractive (probably due to my low self esteem...) Actually, they are both titans in what they do, but absolute losers in every other facet of their lives.

This is the pattern of romance for my entire life. Why do i do this?

Why can't i manage to enjoy the normal stages of a normal relationship. Right now i am talking to two lovely blokes online, the fact that they don't contact me constantly is disconcerting for me. Once or twice a day makes me feel unwanted but i think that this is more normal (is it?).

The fact that they are not obsessed with meeting me TODAY and spending every second with me feels like they don't give a shit. So, i guess what i'm asking is, is this what the start of normal relationships are like?

I want to have healthy relationships, i don't want to be alone and i don't want the dark moods that result from these unhealthy relationships to tip over into my children's lives.

I am happy and successful and have good relationships in all other areas of my life and i function very well as a single person, i just can't seem to resist dark, twisty men.

Help! All advice on rehabbing myself so that i can have a normal relationship one day would be appreciated!

Giroux, I've posted on a couple of recent threads on a similar theme recently as I'm having similar worries about a man I'm seeing.

First time I've dated in 4 years since being widowed. My late husband was exactly the type you describe - smart, intellectual, good looking, depressive, alcoholic. The latter killed him in the end.

While much of our long marriage was very difficult, like you, I have come to realise that I have a natural attraction to slightly 'risky' types. no idea why as I am not that way myself at all (and don't seek it in friends) and I had a very happy and secure childhood.

Anyway, I've had similar anxieties about levels of contact (even though I certainly don't want 50 texts a day) and also what is said. I actually almost cried with frustration last night when I got a text describing the ins and outs of his working day without so much as any comment about him missing me etc. On reflection, maybe this is normal and I need to calm down.

I'm going to seek some counselling to stop me reverting back into old patterns and ending up with the wrong type again.

Intensity in relationships is usually a sign that the people involved are insecure, and looking outside themselves for emotional fulfilment and validation.

In short, intense relationships are about people's poor relationship with themselves, rather than how much they like the other person.

They barely even see the other person, to be honest. And won't until they've fixed their own broken self-esteem.

I'm in recovery myself so can't really point the way to healthy relationships, but I can now spot an unhealthy one a mile off, before I even embark on it, so that's a start! Sounds like you have identified the pattern that you can now know to avoid, too. That's half the battle, surely?

This makes for tough reading, but i need to do it.

Yes, identifying the problem is half the battle, but i have known it since my marriage ended and have still not changed.

i don't need a man in my life - indeed i go through long periods (years) without wanting one, but on the few occasions i have tried (since my marriage ended) either through OD or through the one guy that i met organically, I just revert to my old patterns. So, i've just been avoiding them rather than dealing with the problem.

But you are all right, my self esteem is obviously shot to pieces, my parents were totally absent, particularly during my teenage years, literally out of the country regularly for weeks on end whilst i was cared for by people they paid. I had too much money and too much freedom for my age and living in London, you can imagine what my life was like and how unsuitable so much of it was.

Wow, i can't believe that all of my relationships have been like this. Lots of soul searching for me to do.

I also need to look at how i respond to these men, because i am only used to crazy, i'm sure i behave crazily too. I am very distant, i don't do the love bombing, every man I've ever been involved with says that they can never tell where they stand with me. However, i must be repelling 'normal' healthy men left, right and centre with my own unbalanced approach!

i could have written the op apart from the Titans bit. None of the men I have dated have ever been Titans. But I am a sucker for a red flag. The most recent one was a pathological liar. No lie too small should have been his motto. Along with all the other liars he hurt me badly.
Now it can't be coincidence that every single man I have been with has been a liar as well as most of them waving so many red flags it was like looking at bunting.
I get so hurt by them but lately that hurt has been more like self loathing as in 'I saw the red bunting, what did I expect' so then I go into a self flagellatory season, hating myself for what I allowed these men to do to me.
It is also no surprise that I had a spectacularly bad upbringing m two very damaged parents, both of whose were very twisted and of course very adept liars. And super victims.
So I see all this, and I know all this so why do is till keep falling for these losers? See I told you they are not Titans...
I have decided after the most recent episode with The Liar #124 that I need a man break. I dearly hope I can give myself the break, a friend said I just can't be single although I have been single for a few long periods in my life and have had lots of counselling, done pattern changing, freedom programme etc etc and stil seem to be choosing the same old wanders even if on the surface they seem very different form each other, underneath they are all very weak ill end, feeble minded, emotionally crippled narcissists.

You like what you do.

It's a knowing what that will bring and whether you want to do it still that's key to this.

Enjoy it for what it is or get out.

There are no secret answers.

I'd say stop it with the victim mentality.

I don't have a victim mentality pinot, i am a very strong, independent,capable person who is sharing her innermost feelings here so that i can grow and evolve to have a better, happier life.

But you are right, I DO like what i do. I enjoy the initial rush. But like all humans, i am complex and i don't like the aftermath. Nothing is as simple as you make out, it would be like saying to an alcoholic, a drug addict, a smoker or a binge eater 'you like what you do'. Of course we like the initial physical rush, but not enjoying the aftermath and trying to change the behaviors is what i believe an important part of being human. Otherwise we'd be just like lab rats who continue to do the thing that brings pleasure to the point that it kills them.

Sweetsweetjane, sorry to hear about your most recent experience.

Ricecrispie, the bit you wrote about how insecure people (and I'd include myself in that) "barely even see the other person, to be honest" has really hit home.

This is so helpful people, thank you. I realise that this is a first world problem and all that, but i still want to get better at life so i am finding this very helpful.

To go round and round saying that you do the same and expect a different outcome is having a victim mentality OP.

To say I have been burnt but im not going back there is a non victim mentality.

Something one once, fool you.
Something repeated twice fool me.

done once.

I don't think you have a victim mentality giroux, I think you are trying to make changes and do better in your relationships. Your thread has been immensely valuable.

I am travelling on the same road. It's definitely a detox of sorts...

Immense value comes from learning.. Not repeating. You can go and have many a relationship counselling session, whether you learn something from it is up to you. People that victim blame never learn.

People that blame others never learn.
People that look at themselves do.

I'm glad that this thread has been valuable HappyHopeful.

I hope (no pun intended) that this thread will help others. Maybe in a few years someone will do a search and find some of this as helpful to them as I'm finding it.

Pinotblush your comments aren't very helpful

Pinotblush is doing a passable impression of a wasp at a picnic all over MN today. MNHQ will be along shortly with the rolled-up newspaper, I dare say.

If s/he came back with the name ScattergunFortuneCookie we'd all be forewarned.

We saw each other every day from the day we met. We also text each other whilst we were seperated at work.

We moved in together after a month, a few weeks later we got engaged and a year later we married.

We don't see the point in drama or game playing. If you like each other then nothing wrong with this. If you don't feel like you want to see each a lot then you probably haven't met the right person.

If you don't feel like you want to see each a lot then you probably haven't met the right person

Or, you already have a pretty decent life and you're busy and don't want to compromise the things you already do?

I know for the first year or so it was just the intensity of how much we were attracted to each other. It is like a drug I suppose.

Of course you still have your own life.

We did run up a £600 phone bill between us in first few months as We were seperated for work for one month. We also used to post a letter or card to each other a few days a week.

We did used to write each other cards, letters or post it notes on our breaks even when we worked on the same site. It is harmless even if a bit cheesyA

Also - this thread is about unhealthy relationship dynamics and patterns. Popping on to talk about how you were all intense and it worked out lovely isn't hugely relevant or helpful to the op and others who are discussing their own unhealthy patterns.

In answer to the ops original question. I would say of course intensity at the start is normal for long term marriages or relationships. Why else would you marry that person?

If neither of you are that bothered then you are probably just not that into each other.

Yeah even more helpful
Did you read the thread?

princesscelestia1 - i did feel that intensity and i did marry him.

And it ended in fucking disaster because he really likes that intensity at the start of relationships, so much so that marriage was pretty boring for him. The first time he cheated on me was during my first pregnancy, and then i finally got bored of him chasing that intensity when he went away with his latest 'intensity' whilst i was miscarrying our 4th baby...yup.

So, what i have learned is that the intensity is an indicator of a damaged individual (for the most part of course).

What i am raising this thread for is to ask for help in avoiding this and changing my patterns of behavior, because, despite the immense trauma of my failed marriage, i recently noticed that i am STILL going for the same kind of man. They haven't all cheated on me, in fact my xh was the only one who did, but they have all been slightly mad and damaged. This is not a good thing!

This is amazingly helpful - i know i keep saying but, just...wow.

I have had two relationships which were very intense early on. One in particular love bombed me, told me he'd never felt like this before, declared love very early on and sent 100s of texts a day. I was floored when he left. He became very cold. Later I found out he was a profilic escort user and not the romantic and sensitive man he'd pretended to be. The other relationship failed too.

By contrast, I'm six months into a relationship with a lovely caring man. He texted every other day at the stage. There was no intensity but I knew he liked me because he was reliable. His words matched his actions at every stage. I knew that if we made a date he'd be there. He texts daily now and has just started telling me he loves me. I believe him because it took him six months to say it. He is reliable and consistent and does real practical things like come and get me when I burst my tyre (even though it made him late for work). He fixes things for me. He is calm and loyal. We've never argued. There is absolutely no drama. That to me is a normal and healthy relationship.