Stuck In The Middle - Advice needed (Long)

[PandoNoPants]

I’m a regular but have NC for this as I want to keep my own posts separate.

Ok, this is long but I really need advice and don't want to drip feed, what a mess.

A week or so ago, I got a FB friend request from my friend’s wife. I have been friends with him for about 30 years since nursery. Never ever romantically involved with him – he’s like a brother. His wife felt a bit threatened by this (long term female friend) I think and I was deleted from FB ages ago – so the recent invite made me think something was up. I messaged my friend as I had not really spoken with him since Easter and said jokingly “noticed your mid-life crisis car purchase and got a friend request from your Mrs..everything ok?” He told me he had left her.

Small back story. Over the last 15 years, he has occasionally mentioned marital issues. Feeling like he is being watched like a hawk, controlling (anxious) behaviour from his DW. DW is a bit older than him and wanted children, he didn’t. It then came to the crunch and she apparently said to him it’s have children or a divorce because her clock is ticking so he agreed to make it work. FYI she has supported him through a near fatal road accident and another serious (I mean serious) life event – she really has been there for him and I think this anxiety comes from these events. Also, I say apparently because I just don’t know what to think any more – based on what you are about to read.

So at this point, I hadn’t decided whether to accept the request but he (very casually in a pig headed way) dropped in that he was seeing a wonderful girl from work, was going to drop their young son as he will soon forget about him anyway and his wife “now has” cervical cancer. At this point I decided to friend her on FB because she has no one – he is her only family and she has distanced herself from friends over the years and dedicated herself to their son. I couldn’t quite believe that my ‘friend’ would behave in this way – I’ve always had him pegged as a good guy.

His wife told me everything. He had an affair a few years ago and he came back to her with conditions. If it wasn’t for her controlling behaviour, he’d never have had this affair (I know, right..it gets better..) so unless she had counselling to change her ways, there was no hope. She jumped through hoops for this to work and then some. He has since told her that she needs to ‘man up’ about her cancer as if it’s just flu and that he won’t look after their son if she dies because he has his own life now. However, he still goes to see her often and is quite happy to jump into bed with her. Her words “we have been intimate more in the last 6 months than a long time”

So now I’m firmly stuck in the middle. He sent me a long email about how he had been emailing this girl at work since Summer (EA) and then decided he would leave 2 months ago to pursue it. His wife doesn’t know this. He spent last weekend with this girl and I now know that he borrowed the money from his wife to pay for this hotel.

His wife thinks I can wave a magic wand and fix this and make him see what he is doing/going to lose. He came back once, he will come back again. I’ve been gently trying to make her see what an utter dick my friend is – even if I could fix it, there is no way on earth he deserves her after the way he acted with the first affair and now this. The way he casually told me “This new girl keeps asking about my past and I’m worried she would run a mile with my baggage” “I will pay for whatever DS needs but will see him every now and again, he will get over me” I pretty much ripped him a new arsehole at work. I’m not sure if he thought I’d congratulate him on any of this? I actually had to point out that his DS is in pieces and has been trying to find a solution to fix his broken family. I had to point this out..wtf.

My friend totally fits the mid-life crisis script on MN by the way – he could have written it. Their DS also has autism and keeps asking if he didn’t have it, would his father love him again. It breaks my heart.

I have tried to speak to my friend but he seems to have firmly checked out of their marriage again.

Why am I posting here? I have the following dilemmas:

Friend is sleeping with DW and GF and god knows who else. DW has cervical cancer and is undergoing combined therapy. With a weakened immune system, what if he is carelessly exposing her to STI’s?

DW doesn’t know about the above.

GF doesn’t know friend is still married (left for her but she doesn’t know this) or has a son..or is still sleeping with DW or that DW has cancer.

DW doesn’t have a support network outside of him, what’s left of her family – all overseas.

Friend is using DS as a weapon. If DW doesn’t do this or that regarding a divorce, he will never see DS again or he will declare himself bankrupt to spite them.

To summarise in my eyes, my friend is being a complete an utter, selfish prick. I have been told things by both sides and am in turmoil about if I should say something to DW (I have it in writing, he emailed me from work so can’t lie). Is this going to make things worse for her and DS in the long run? If I tell her there is an OW will she go nuclear and give her DH a reason to make her life more difficult or will it give her another reason to try and rebuild her life?

I honestly wish I had never trusted my instincts to follow up on that FB friend request because I feel that I could ruin things here. I don’t want to step away because of how ill she is and how my “friend” is mistreating two different women both who are emotionally invested in him and he is lying to both. Her cancer has already progressed from stage 1 to 2 she told me on Friday.

Any advice? I keep telling her to not make herself available to him because it’s massaging his ego and making him feel wanted. I keep asking her to consider posting here for advice because of the support I’ve seen people get.

She dearly loves my friend and they have been married over 15 years – I can’t believe he is being like this. He even took DW out for her birthday last month and made her cry at the meal by telling her she was ugly inside. I’m just speechless..

I know it’s long but thanks for reading.

Well, they are embarking on a rocky treacherous road and if his past selfish behaviour is anything to go by, be will be revealing his knives at the divorce. He'll want to settle as little as possible and he is all likely going to turn aggressive and bullish. Just warning you here. Divorce can turn people into monsters. Support your friend through her treatment but don't get involved once you've disclosed. Its going to be absolutely draining so prepare yourself for battle.

Wow, Panda you are such a good friend. Your old ex friend's soon to be Ex wife needs someone - it's probably you.

I'd be dumping the old friend (the stbxh) and advising his DW to do so as well.

You sound like a really considerate caring & empathetic person - and ethical as well, so I'm sure you'll be able to judge, moment by moment, what his DW can bear at any particular moment.

But she needs to know - gently, but she needs to know. Maybe she could be persuaded to feel anger rather than desperate attachment? It might help her rally to deal with her cancer treatment.

Unfortunately in such situations, your feelings come last (I speak from experience of supporting a quite "difficult" friend trough a nasty divorce - she has turned on me a couple of times. I've had to just shut up & deal with it, because I know she's in pain & I'm ultimately OK). That's also what's tough about it. The appalling behaviour of your old friend must have emotional consequences for you. So I hope you have some RL support & can vent away from the people involved in this awful situation.

And to you, too, Springydaffs I read your caring & wise posts in here, and learn a lot from you. I'm sorry you're going through this shite disease as well.

Springy daffs hope you OK at the moment. Life is shit sometimes but there is sunshine behind the clouds.

Pando
Do you like the DW, as a woman aside from all of this? Can you see yourself being her friend and supporting her for her own sake, not just because of her situations?

Once you work out where you see yourself in her life maybe that will help you decide just how much to tell her and when.

For Springy

It's not often a post on here leaves me open-mouthed in shock, but this has done so.

What an absolute first class prick. And not just to do all this shit, but to casually email you about it as if it's completely fucking normal - the mind boggles.

If it was me, I would tell both the wife and the girlfriend. But the wife needs to hear it first, and given the info above from other posters re chemo, this needs to be carefully timed. Only after that can you tell the GF. Neither of them are going to want to hear it so you may need to print off the email(s) - or forward the email in the GF's case.

What an absolute scumbag. To call him a cunt is an insult to cunts.

for this poor woman, and to you too Springy - wishing you much strength.

Thanks for your replies. I took a bit of time away from here to make sure I was keeping a cool head.

I will update properly later but just so you know I told DW everything 30 mins ago. "Friend" was meant to spend time with DS last and help with homework. He spent 90 mins with him. 30 of those in the loo (?!) refused to help with homework or stay to tuck him in. So this morning I thought fuck it. He has also asked to borrow another PS300 from DW and said he will be unavailable on his birthday weekend next week as he's working. He's not. He will be in the Cotswolds. So, yeah..fuck him. DW needed to know. Also he Skyped her for a sexy phone call on Fri night?!! (sorry can't think of the terminology right now).

I'm going to anonymously call the GF and once done I'm going to stay out of the divorce stuff but still support DW. We've not had the closest of friendships but god knows what "friend" said about me. Probably didn't make her feel better and reassure her I'm just a friend, no threat at all. Who knows?!!

Jesus.

What a dreadful situation.

Does your 'friend' even listen to what you have to about his callous and utterly selfish behaviour? How did he react when you spoke to him about it? Hopefully now DW knows everything she won't be sleeping with this scumbag again. But you could tell him that while she's having chemo and radiation it is inadvisable to have sex with her and his cock might fall off .

This friendship is over now really isn't it? I'd be a friend to his dw and dump him.

to you, and to the DW. You've done the right thing.

Shit he really is a piece of work.
Just when you thought someone couldn't get any worse. He's really not the kind of person you thought he was at all is he?

Pando the DW is fortunate to have befriended you and just at the time when she really needs someone watching her back.
I wish you both well and all the strength and luck possible.

Ok, DC's in bed now and I can update properly - wow what an afternoon. When I first posted I was bit all over the place because whilst I know I have done the right thing, I still feel bad (stupidly) because we have known each other for 3 decades. If that makes sense! However, I can't stand by someone who has done everything I have written about.

So I told DW everything I knew. She found the receipt from the hotel and called him at work today on that basis - "I know everything, I know about the hotel and I know who she is" - I hope you are ready for this. He hung up on her and called back a short while after with the most PATHETIC sob story I have ever heard in my life. According to him, his head is all over the place and he had this meaningless fling to try and find out where he is etc. He knows he has a loving family waiting in the wings and he doesn't know what to do with his life. He then told her he hasn't actually filed for divorce yet and let's put it on the back burner until "we both know where we are" (fucking cheek of it). He then said he needs to gently think of a way to end this fling.

DW had asked me to hold off calling OW for a little bit so she could get her head around it. So I haven't called yet.

Here's the sad part. DW has told her H that she is willing to forgive everything - this is the pick me dance bit. I'm just sat here in disbelief. I know that's easy for me to write because I'm not the one actually going through it. I know she wants things back to as they were. DW is a person who has gone through an awful lot. I am talking a lot of trauma - she still sees her counsellor for this. I understand she was raped as a youngster and then you add in the issues/stress her H has caused. He nearly died in a road accident, made a very very stupid mistake at work (white collar crime related, was made an example of and did 3 months), an affair, her having cancer and now this episode. They both have top end, highly pressurised jobs and DS has mild autism and ADHD and it took a fair bit to get the diagnosis and a good school for him etc. They have been through an awful lot together - her always supporting him. What he has done is take her anxiety and make it into this devastating issue that boo 'hoo - made him want to leave. So he casually ignores doing time etc and what she has done is far worse????!! I'm not sure how she hasn't had a complete breakdown.

DW seems to now have misplaced anger - telling me not to contact the 'homewrecker'. I've had to point out that OW is not a homewrecker because she doesn't know about any home in the first place. H is playing them both like a fiddle and she really needs to open her eyes to this. He wants her to keep quiet. He wants to pretend to be nice because he doesn't want OW to know and has no bloody intention of telling her. I'm 99.9% sure he doesn't want his little weekend in the Cotswolds ruined!!

I've told her I am going to tell OW at some point because this is another person caught up in the middle of his bull.

Apparently last night he refused to help DS with his homework because it's "not his job" and he didn't want kids anyway. DW informs him she knows he is seeing OW and he changes his tune.

FYI in 2006 we had lunch and he told me DW had issued an ultimatum (!) that as she is older, wanted to have kids. He didn't at that stage and if he still didn't within a few years then they would have to go their separate ways. I pointed out to him that actually, she was being honest with him and giving him a choice. I told him not to bring a child into the world if he wasn't ready. He chose to have a child, he chose to stay. I told him today he can cut that crap out too. It's almost as if he is deluded.

Anyway - long update. Thanks for reading again. Not sure how it's going to go but I'm going to send her stuff on the pick me dance. I really hope I can open her eyes.

Also, if I hadn't moved halfway up the country, I'd be going to his flat right now and kicking him into the next dimension.

Apologies. I have self reported my update as I realised I included a few triggers. Wasn't thinking straight when wording it as mentally exhausted tonight.

I have asked MN for advice if they can edit.

Sorry :(

if i were her i wd be extremely scared about what will happen with ds if the worst happens to her. Is it possible she is taking him back in the hope that he will stand by his son in the end? What is resonating with me too is how little we really know someone, op. Stand strong you are doing the right thing - but doubt you'll get any thanks for a while.

I've always believed in a person's right to make their own choices, even if I felt it was the most god-awful choice in the world. But I've also believed that I don't have to be there to see it all inevitably implode. I walked away from a good friend who was involved with an abusive drug dealer. I respected her freedom of choice but told her I wasn't going to sit around and watch her train wreck, but that she always knew where to find me. And eventually she did.

DW had made her decision, imo a tragically wrong one. But it's up to you if you want to sit to the side and watch her bastard of an H destroy her. I honestly don't know what I'd do. She has so much more on her plate, more need for support for other things, than my friend did.

And FWIW, I'd tell the OW, too, regardless of what DW thinks. She's probably just afraid that her H will leave her if OW gives him an ultimatum. IMO, that would probably be the only 'nice' thing he'd ever do for her.

I think you have done what you can.

Back off and leave them to their sorry mess now.

You cannot come out of this as friends.

Pando you are amazing. As Magoria suggests, maybe back off (for your own peace of mind as much as anything). BUt I hope you can tell the DW that you're there for her as a shoulder if she needs it. Poor woman. But she will need someone standing in the shadows behind her, quietly supporting her. It's an important thing we can do for friends when they're going through hell.

And I'm sorry that you've lost a good friend, and that must be tough after 30 years, but he is behaving like a pathetic well I don't know what word covers it "dick" is an insult to all the good penises out there.

DW's reaction is not unexpected:

• Because of her past, she is strongly attached to abusers as that is her "normal": her DH fills a dysfunctional emotional need she has. Her hanging on to him desperately is an expression of her deep-seated issues, and will be very hard to break.

• Because of her present illness, isolation, and care of DC, she also strongly needs support. And her DH fills that role (not really in practice, since he's useless, but it's been his place in her life up till now).

It's very sad, but only she can face up to her dysfunctional attachment.
But on the support side of things, there is hope: can you point her to professional help services, and if you so choose, just be there for her as a friend (or suggest she reaches out to other friends who might give her moral support)?

Having more support in her life might help her to need her DH less and eventually break off from him.

Likelihood is that this will backfire on you at some point because a) he is an utter arsehole and will work out it was you/dw will tell him it was you who told her b)she will want to stay with him because she is emotionally drained and can't think straight and will ask you to step away.

However, what you did was the right thing and sometimes you have to take a bullet when you're doing the right thing. If you are feeling very brave, you could tell the OW anon despite what the dw has said. In the long run, you'd be doing her a favour.

Remember, he involved you by telling you all this shite in the first place. He obv enjoys it all, all the commotion, all the drama, all the cheating, the being cruel to his son and wife and OW. I would also say that both women are at risk of infection from him, not just dw.

Well done, OP. You've done the right thing.

Am I the only one morbidly interested in whether he's going to the Cotswalds anyway?

I thought I'd come back and provide an update. I haven't read my last post, hoping I have covered everything. It all blew up today and I need to vent. It's a long one - sorry in advance!

When "Friend" said he was going to dump the OW/GF - it was a complete lie. He admitted to me that he said that to keep DW quiet. He then completely ramped up being an asshole. He told DW it wasn't her place to know his business etc - really turned on the emotional blackmail eg: if you do or don't do this, I won't see our son. He attended a Santa's Grotto thingy and sneered at other people's children. Told DW he hated her, how his family were disappointed he married her and that he was meeting OW/GF's parents later that evening - in the queue for Santa.

I spent my free time one morning, on the phone to a charity "Family Lives Matter" asking for help from "Families Need Father's" - to try and convince my "Friend" about how he matters to his DS. The person on the phone was appalled. Narcissist got thrown around a couple of times. I told my "friend" I had done this and got an email from him paying me lip service. I started to get cross again...

He told me he was going to the Cotswolds for "one last nice break away with GF/OW" puke and was going to write her a letter explaining everything. He went away last week and I have ignored him for a while. During that break of his, I've had to help DW not think about suicide. She was made redundant from work - it all became too much. With my help she is now on different anti depressants and is trying to work through this with her counsellor. It was the thought of him waking up next to another woman that weekend, that tipped it over the edge.

He messaged her whilst away (guilt? - she has just been told her cancer has progressed to stage 3 and will need surgery) ..these messages telling her to push through the cancer like he would work through a hard set at the gym (wtaf..)...I started to get mad..

Two nights ago he sent me a picture of him playing Lego with his son. As in "look at me being a good Dad" - I saw red. He told me today that he sent a "10 page letter - chapter and verse of his life" to his GF and she was now not talking to him. I saw this as an opportunity to email her at work because I knew there would be a pack of lies somewhere. I was trying to stay out of his affairs for DW's sake - but waking up to her messages is hard. Talking someone down from depressive and suicidal thoughts is - I have no words. I just got so angry at feeling so helpless, I snapped.

I told GF/OW everything. I said I was sorry for contacting her but this was the only option left that I had. I said I couldn't live with what I knew and that he was playing both her and DW. I told GF/OW about the lot - DW's cancer, DS's existence and autism and self blaming. How I honestly believe he quit on them because DW got sick. How he uses DS as an emotional weapon. I sent her a friend request on Facebook so she could see how long I have been friends with him and his family and to show her his hidden profile. To show her I wasn't meddling or trying to cause trouble.

Surprise, surprise - GF emailed me straight back. He didn't tell her any of that. He told her he moved out a year ago and was halfway through a divorce. All lies. She seems like a really nice person and is devastated. She told me she cannot forgive a liar.

He's already angry at me about emailing the GF. He wants a copy of my email so he has "a level playing field?!!" to which I obviously declined! I completely let him have it. Called him many things - you can imagine. The more I find out, the more disgusted I am. I really can't believe someone would behave like this.

So that's my update. It's not a particularly positive one. I hope I have spared the OW/GF further heartbreak and DW any further emotional blackmail.

No doubt I will wake up to WW3 tomorrow morning, I guess I also needed to vent. What a complete pig!

I've only just seen your thread. My heart is pounding reading this.

I believe you have done the right thing in the most horrific circumstances.

Panda, I think you are a You are decent and I hope that someone somewhere rewards you. X

I thought I had read some awful things on here, but this has left me utterly speechless. I feel so sad for both DW and her son. What an arse.

Pando, you sound like a wonderful person to have as a friend, especially in this case as you weren't really even friends before.

Oh God. Well done you!!! Remember he is a worthless lying piece of shit and you have nothing to be afraid of.

Panda, well done you

The pattern of lying & justification from your friend rings so many bells with me re my STBXH. He basically assumed me & his GF were both there to hang around until he 'decided which one he preferred'. Thankfully I wasn't fighting cancer st the time.

I do wish I'd had a friend like you around at the time though, it would've kept me strong through the hard times & stopped me doubting some of my choices.

You're doing a great job

Everyone needs a Pando in their lives. You are incredible, and for you. Your male friend doesn't know how lucky he is and he certainly hasn't deserved you all these years but what a good job for his partners and son that you stayed in his life. All the best to you, you total legend.