Can women be emotional abusers?

[Wiltedplants]

Just that really or does any 'acting out' stem from past trauma?

Tbh I can't comment on your situation (this is close relative of mine that I am speaking about) because it depends on what lies, what you mean be self preservation and how longs it's been.

If it's been 8 years and you still bring it up I can understand them minimising it, iyswim. After 8 years enough is enough.

If it's lying about eating the last hobnob and the controlling behaviour stems from there then it's not on.

It's just so hard with vague detail.

Saying women are only abusive because of someone else's behaviour is an attempt to shift blame (which is what your partner has also done?).

It occur because of some past trauma, but it's still their responsibility to sort out.

Most abusers have something I their past that effects them. Make and female.

Some people have awful pasta (I certainly do) but are not abusers. Why that is, I don't know.

I don't agree that abusive people always target weaker people or that women are only abusive because of trauma.

Anyone can be abusive.

Abuse is a pattern of behaviour which is designed to or has the result of benefitting the perpetrator through giving them power and control.

There is a difference therefore between poor behaviour and abusive behaviour.

Most people have learned abusive behaviour as a result of childhood trauma/experiences. This is largely irrelevant to the victim of the abuse as it is the abuser's issue.

Abusers have a sense of entitlement and treat others poorly because they believe they are entitled to. They often realise that others think this is wrong but they believe they are entitled to behave the way they do.

If someone is in a relationship with someone who is abusive they may start to behave abusively in return. It then becomes a toxic relationship however if the relationship breaks up the original abuser usually remains abusive whereas the other partner can usually recover. Male or female.

Abusers never truly intend to be abusive because they believe they are entitled to behave the way they do. They will be shocked and disgusted at being accused of abuse because of this and usually genuinely believe they are not doing anything they are not justified in doing or entitled to do. They may make fake attempts at remorse if other people are angry at them but they fundamentally believe they have done nothing wrong and this is usually a manipulation designed to get the control back.

This is all very helpful especially differentiating between poor and abusive behaviour. How would you define poor behaviour? I've never realised there is a difference so this as I said is very helpful.

The insight about how toxic relationships develop is helpful too.

I'm only at the beginning of this journey of relationship recovery (I still don't know if that's possible as there is a LOT of residual anger and resentment from both sides) I might add hence all the questions.

Poor behaviour is something everyone does from time to time. Basically just when you don't behave as you would wish to. When poor behaviour becomes a pattern with the result or desire of gaining control for personal benefit that's when it becomes abuse.

Losing your temper unreasonably once in a blue moon is poor behaviour, losing your temper unreasonably and frequently so that your partner begins walking on eggshells is abusive.

So to clarify something, if my decline in trust caused the poor behaviour out of frustration then it could be the catalyst to the newly developed pattern of bad behaviour ie possible abuse in response to the beating with the same stick type behaviour. Ok the true catalyst to all of this is the lying and general poor choices quite some time ago.
Hope you're still with me!
I suppose I'm seeking reassurance that there is no inherent abuse happening (I have triggers and can be sensitive to certain situations) and that there can be recovery based on the assumption that there's no third party or anything like that happening it's purely a dynamic between the parties in the relationship.

I have actually known more emotionally abusive women than men as us women cannot wicked with our tongues.

My MIL, whom I love, never forgave my FIL for his philandering youth and took every opportunity to make him suffer for it, even fifty years later. She also taught her children to disrespect him.

A neighbour of mine had five children and lived with a man who acted as father to those children, even though none of them were his. She made him do everything she wanted because otherwise he would never see the children again.

And I could go on.

In reality no-one is going to be able to tell you definitively what has been going on from this thread alone.

What I can say is this doesn't sound like a healthy relationship and you don't need things to have become abusive for you to end it.

I know. I'm looking for reasons to stay...

Does he still lie to you?

So what you are saying is:
-your partner lied to you repeatedly about small, everyday things
-you worked out what was going on and now don't trust your partner
-you keep asking them if they are still lying
-they are denying it and telling you you are abusive to keep asking
-and if they are caught out are saying that you pushed them to it because you think they lie so why shouldn't they.

I would say that you have lost trust in your partner and have valid reasons to keep asking them if they are lying to you. I would not say you are being emotionally abusive because you are trying to work out if they are lying or not based on past behaviour. I would be wary of someone telling you that you are being abusive/controlling because it can be a tactic used by people to get you to stop questioning their own abusive behaviour.

It sounds like you are in a cycle that you need to get out of, one way or another. Do you think they are still lying to you? If so, are you willing to live with it to your detriment, because they are not likely to change.

By omission. Pretty much always by omission. Same thing I know. Minimises too. I return the favour by projecting the worst case scenario and then accusing of it and wait for the reassurance that's not the case.
The end result is extreme anxiety. It's become a dance of sorts.

i have to confess im an abuser i refused to put my ex's name on my tenancy realistically i know it stems from my fear of homelessness and i need to control the roof over my head(especially since i nearly lost my home due to a prev ex not paying the rent) but now we have split up and i know he is an abusive wanker im hoping the reason i didn't put his name on it is because some part of me knew what he was and was protecting me from myself realistically i know he had options as far as housing goes his family would never see him homeless my family would see me on the street but would take my children so my roof is important to me im on benefits at the moment im still ahead on my rent as soon as i get a job i prioritise my rent and pay more than i need to i know this is my issue and mine to deal with its still unhealthy really and classed as abuse strange thing is i would put my kids on there just not my husband i suppose its because i trust them not to evict me? i don't trust him one bit

In a good relationship would you really need to look for reasons to stay?

Waiting - that's not abuse because it's not poor behaviour. Just sounds sensible to me!!

It's like bullying. Both boys and girls can be bullies but often it's different. Boys usually bully quite directly and are more likely to be able to psysically intimidate. Girls can be more indirect using silent treatment, exclusion or favouritism to bully. There is less use of physical intimidation and force.

Abusers often accuse their victims of being abusive though. So if someone who has abused you has accused you of being abusive because you fear or mistrust them then you are being manipulated.

I've been in a relationship where I've waited for reasons to leave so this is quite different. I care. I am also quite controlling in I need to know what is going on all the time and don't cope very well if things change without me having a say, even if it's what needs to happen and the reason I have to have a say is unreasonable for example I'm anxious X will happen because Y has changed.

Waiting I would say you were protecting your dcs not being abusive. Turned out you were right!

Wilted - in THIS relationship things are not right are they? Whatever way you try and look at it, whoever is being abusive, even if no-one is, this is not making you happy is it?

That's correct however, I've never had a relationship make me particularly happy. This is the closet I've come.

Referring to the original post - my mother was an emotional abuser, and I'm sorry to say that entirely without intending it, I have been, too. I can't un-be myself, and I can't go back and change the past.

It isn't a reason to settle for unhappiness. The more time you spend with someone who makes you unhappy, even if they make you less unhappy than others you have been with, the less chance you have of either being happy alone or meeting someone who will make you happy.

I'd like to turn it around but I'm unsure how to