My Mum drove my children whilst drunk

[Mull]

Very infrequent poster here as, usually, nothing dramatic happens in my life. The last week has been horrendous.

HUGE back story to my mum, her history and our relationship. She has depression issues and I don't believe she has ever been happy. Two failed marriages (first where she left husband and her 18mo DD for my Dad after they had affair then my Dad had affair and left after 20yrs). She has been by herself for last 18 years. Drink was a problem 10-20 years ago as a coping mechanism for depression. There were a couple of suicide attempts and I went NC for a while as being around wasn't 'saving' her and just hurting me more.

She got sober just over 10 years ago and, whilst still a very tricky personality with a lot of issues, I thought she was doing really well. I respect her for turning her life around. DH and I have DS (5) and DD (3) and she has been a big help with childcare. I never had any concerns leaving them with her as she was 6yrs sober by then and I genuinely didn't think it would cross her mind.

She has recently moved home to the same town as us and had plans to volunteer at the school, reading etc. Last Thurs I got home from work (she looked after DD on a Thurs when DS at school. I pick him up and then come home) and knew straight away she wasn't right. She said she wasnt well and had to go home. Then I twigged she was drunk. Shock doesn't cover it. I asked if she had driven like 'this', she said "Yes". I said have you driven DD like this she said "Yes". Both DC's around so I had to think fast and not go loopy. I said I would drive her home but she left before I had DC shoes etc on.

When they were in bed I went to have it out with her which probably wasn't a good idea as she was talking shit most of the time. I now believe she started drinking last Tues and would have been drunk when she picked up DS from school and drove him last Weds. I have tried to understand why this has happened and, apparently, it's my fault and DD's fault. She doesn't like how much I shout at the children and she is embarrassed of DD's behaviour (very wilful 3yr old who I struggle to cope with but nothing out of the ordinary). She is fed up of being 'brave' by herself all the time. She refused to say sorry for driving them. Just said she felt 'sad' about it. She doesn't believe she has done anything wrong to them as they are too little to understand.

Anyway, I'm so angry right now that I don't give a shit the why's and where for's SHE DROVE MY CHILDREN WHEN DRUNK. I will never forgive her and she will never be left alone with them again. She will not be getting near them for a long time and certainly not if she continues to be drunk. This has brought back huge issues for me as she drove me drunk on a few occasions (school pickup) and I can still remember heading straight for a wall, don't know how we missed it. She will NEVER put my children through similar.

She also tried to give me parenting advice for DD and now I think FUCK YOU at least I keep my children safe and, oh, I didn't walk out on an 18month old and never see them again. I have never said that to her but REALLY want to at the moment. I know that won't help but a large part of me wants to hurt her for what she has done.

Haven't seen / spoken to her since Thurs night and don't really know where to go from here (if anywhere). Obviously I am safe guarding my children and have sorted nursery etc so I can do all drop offs / pick ups but what else can / should I do? There's still a part of me that wants to help her (not that I can stop her drinking. I know that and have spoken to Al-Anon in the past). The other, angrier part of me just wants to say FUCK OFF.

Any words of wisdom as I'm really struggling to process all of this.

Also she doesn't have to go to AA for you to go to AlAnon.

Hi all thanks for the responses. Been busy at work today then went and had a good old vent with my best friend tonight (and some snuggles from her newborn ).

I think you are right Atenco that making allowances does enable and I can see I have done that in the past. I have also bought into her minimising of her behaviour and still don't think certain things that happened in the past were 'that bad'. Well balls to that now. There is no minimising of this. That will not happen. I have heard nothing from her and that's fine by me.

But my heart breaks for DS . He asked when he could see her today and I said she's not very well and needs to look after herself. He said we should buy her some fruit if she is ill . He is the most gorgeous, caring little boy. How dare she do this to him.

You can't report a retrospective incident like this. There's absolutely nothing the police can do about it. What you can do.is phone and say she regularly drinks and drives. Give her car registration number and her address. Phone as often as you need to so as many officers are aware of her. If you so much as suspect she's out in the car having had a drink phone immediately hopefully there'll be someone waiting when she arrives home.

My mother was an alcoholic who never admitted she had a problem and never tried to change. She broke my heart when I was a teenager as I was always trying to stop her from drinking, which of course was impossible. Drunks always minimise and blame someone else; that's why they are still drunks.

She was also a wonderful, fascinating, vibrant person.

My children were close to her and spent a lot of time with her, though she didn't take care of them alone except for a few minutes here and there. They would never have felt the pain that I did even if they were around her when drunk, (which they wouldn't have noticed when they were little as she wasn't a blatantly obvious drunk) because she wasn't their mum.

It sounds like you don't want to see your mother and don't want her problems in your life, which is perfectly understandable. I am just pointing out that it is very possible for a 5 year old to have a good relationship with an alcoholic grandmother. The issue isn't loaded for him the way it is for you, and telling him she is sick won't help him understand at this age.

If you are genuinely heart broken for DS, and are willing and able to deal with your own rage for his sake, just let them see each other at a time when she is usually sober (maybe mornings?) and you are not far away.

Punishing your mum or reasoning with her is unlikely to help.
At least she knows she has a problem, as she has kept sober for a long period. Maybe she would consider specialised counseling: AA is not for everyone (some studies show it is a relatively ineffective way of fighting alcoholism- you can read up on it if you are interested).

it is very possible for a 5 year old to have a good relationship with an alcoholic grandmother

depends on the grandmother, surely, and how she shows her alcoholism? If in the long term she is likely to be untrustworthy with the OP's son and inflict more harm, specially if she gets nasty when drunk, better to stay without contact.

If she's like your children's grandmother, then it's a much better situation.

Only the OP knows which one she is. But some space and time is a good idea to let the dust settle.

Mull, when your mum drove your children after drinking, she didn't love them, she didn't love the little boy who wants to take her fruit because she's poorly, she didn't love you, his mum, who would have been destroyed if anything had happened to them.
Even though she knew the risks of what she was doing intellectually she didn't care enough to avoid doing it, and if anything had happened, she would just have crawled further into the bottle, using it, as she does now, to absolve herself of responsibility.
Not all alcoholics have to hit the bottom before they take steps, but some do and you cannot enable that. I'm not sure exactly what I'm trying to say here, but the gist is that potentially destroying you and your family is clearly not her low point, so you absolutely have to step out of her way.
She might (?) Stop if she did real harm, but she might not, and allowing that risk is asking you to gamble your family, against her ability to be responsible, which she has already proven to be lacking.
It's really hard, but by not minimising her behaviour, by withdrawing from her, and taking your children out of physical and psychological risk you are doing more for her than if you "were there for her".

You could posdibly let her know you'll all be there for her when she's been sober for x amount of time if it fits with your thinking , not as a punishment, but as a hope for her and giving her the knowledge you are there, without her having to deal with anybody's problems but hers for a while, clear headspace but with a firm boundry.?

Meer my mother's situation was not good at all; it was tragic, devastating, and did me a lot of long term damage. My point is that the OP was happy to let her mum care for the kids as long as her mum was sober, so contact with her when sober is presumably still precious, at least to the boy.

I just don't think that cutting all contact as a consequence of grandma's behaviour is necessarily a positive thing for everyone. Plenty of people disagree with me; I was just stating another viewpoint.

666Neighbour alcoholics are sick, and in the thrall of a terrible addiction; they are not necessarily incapable of love, even though their actions may make it seem that way.

I disagree that "tough love" is always going to do more for an ageing alcoholic than being "there for her". In some cases, going NC may be the healthiest state of affairs for the adult child of the alcoholic.

I didnt say I think alcoholics are incapable of love, but they often act selfishly and outside of that love, sometimes for protracted periods of time.

So sorry to read this, Mull.

I agree with what you're doing, not allowing her to look after your DC again; and I agree that it would be a bad thing to allow your DC to see her drunk.

Do you want to go NC? If not, would you be able to have her to your house, to see your DC under your supervision? She might not like it, but it's preferable to not seeing them at all, I would have thought?

I don't know what, if anything, the police can do if she's not actively drunk and driving when you call. BUT there is something you can do to prevent her driving under the influence - get an interlock for her car and get it fitted.

Interlocks are alcohol breath detectors that are linked to the ignition system in the car - if the alcohol on the breath is over the legal limit, the car will not start. alcolock.co.uk/programs/

All of this assumes that you actually want to continue to have anything to do with her - and I could fully understand why you wouldn't - but even with the interlock, I still wouldn't let her drive my DC again under the circs.

I also think though, that if you do go NC, you go and tell her exactly why. She will of course bluster, deny, minimise - but you still tell her. At some point she might remember and actually take it in.

I see your point clara

OnceAMeerNotAlwaysAMeer You beat me to it. I have a friend who is a grandmother with a bit of a problem with alcohol, but she doesn't drink during the day and never when looking after her dgc. I have a neighbour who is a binge drinker who ends up sleeping on the streets at those times and another friend is in AA because she used to get totally sloshed at every hour of the day and night.

Would it help if you told your mother that you will always be happy to see as long as she comes to your house sober.

I'm sure it would be hard for you to trust her to look after your kids again, but at least she knows that the door is open.

Your DM has done this because she's an alcoholic. It is an illness. Of course you don't want her in charge of your children. But do you actually need to stop contact altogether?

I am not at all against people doing this if they need to, and have indeed been NC with my narcissistic mother for many many years.

But, I also had a father who was an alcoholic. He was a delightful person in so many ways but sadly had this horrible addiction to booze. And because they are addicted, they put alcohol ahead of everything, including family relationships. Very sad. Horrible for the family. I would not have left my father in charge of my dcs, nor let him drive them. But I would not have cut my father out of my life.

Hello all, so many more responses, thank you for taking the time.

Regarding what 'sort' of alcoholic she is, well she has a very addictive personality (obviously) so it is extremes with her. I think that is part of how she stayed sober for so long, it's all or nothing. So I definitely wouldn't have her in the house or near the DC unless she was completely sober as there is no hiding it. I would also feel that I was enabling her drinking if she was allowed a relationship with her grandchildren as well as drinking. And yes I know that sounds like I'm punishing her and I'm sure that's part of my thought process.

I have realised that I would definitely go NC with her if the DC weren't involved. I just can do it anymore and, genuinely, don't think she's a very nice person, even sober. I think I would feel like a weight had been lifted, as a pp said. So I will remain NC for the foreseeable and see what happens. If that makes her take stock and realise what she has done (and, horrifically, what could have happened) then we'll go from there. Maybe short, completely supervised visits. Maybe not.

I have felt so, so low this week and it seems to be getting worse. I will look into counselling some more as think it would be of benefit. Had to hide in the loo for a cry twice at work today

Fair enough Mull None of this is easy.