So worn out being ignored and 'wifeworked' by DH & dd

[HeadandBrickWall]

Don't really know where to start so sorry if this is rambling but so tired and upset feeling like the house skivvy and not feeling like a real person anymore.

DH is, genuinely, a lovely person (I know lots of people say that though!) but has suffered with depression since he was a boy and is very slowly getting on top of it but it's going to take years not weeks. It means how ever much he cares about me he doesn't seem that able to do what he really should to show it because he doesn't even value himself that highly. It's like he's selfish but on the depression' behalf, not on his own.

For instance we were both ill a few weeks ago and dinner needed doing and he wasn't up to so I ended up doing it even though I was feeling worse - but it wasn't him being a twat, if it was up to him and he was on his own he'd have gone without so it's not as though he only cares about himself, the problem is that he doesn't even care about himself so no-one else gets a look in.

If I feel ill/tired/bad about something he'll be genuinely interested/empathise but will have forgotten about it 5 minutes later and will just feel worse if I bring it up again. If the washing up needs doing he'll wait for me to do it or beat himself up about not having done it rather than grit his teeth and summon up the energy to do it. If someone (MIL) forces him to consider their feelings (ie, throws a strop) he'll put the effort in through fear but when I calmly say something and expect him to provide the effort he'll take the easy way out and not bother.

I do understand that's what depression does to you, I suffer from anxiety too but I can't live like this - I don't want everything to go to pieces because neither of us are looking after things but I don't want to be the housekeeper fading into the background either but those feel like the only choices I have.

DD(11) seems to have taken it on board as well and although we get on really well, acts like I'm one of her teachers - orders given will be followed but no further thought given to me as a person beyond that. Ie, if I say I've got a raging headache she'll just rabbit on and ask for things as normal as if my feelings don't exist but if I tell her off she'll finally listen and it's making me shouty almost every day.

I just want both of them to see and appreciate me as a person, not as the teacher/housekeeper/manager. If for instance I didn't wash or brush my teeth for a month DH wouldn't ask what was wrong and why I wasn't washing, he'd just accept that was how I'd decided things would be and he was to put up with it which is slowly driving me mad, it's like I don't exist.

We can't afford counselling but I'm determined to change things, I just don't know where to start? Should I just become ultra bossy and dictate what everyone does, including dictating acceptable responses to my feelings, virtually forcing DH to do what I want like he's a child? I feel like that's what DH would prefer (he's used to it from his mum) but it's really not me.

I'm in a similar position OP, and I think we are both being conned.

For depression read selfish.

If you're like me then you don't ask much of them because it's not worth the bother. You hope that one day they will actually value you, rather than saying they do but never showing it with their actions.

Hard to be bossy and demanding, when naturally you aren't, but his DM has the measure of him. Good on her.

My DH, also a really lovely man, ask anyone, has done a really selfish thing this week, and now feels really bad about it, he still did it though because selfish is his default position. When challenged he pulls the depression card and retreats to bed.

I'm sitting here now totally pissed off with him. You have my sympathy, but no solutions I'm afraid.

I have long term depression. I never behave like this.

I had one of those husbands. Still would have except he was so utterly selfish he also had an affair. So I threw him out.

The lack of applying brain power to anything beyond the end of his nose or forward planning or even taking an interest.....

It's torturous. I'm now having counselling as his non committal attitude has actually has serious impact on me after 18 years. I have been blamed and called controlling. Unbelievably I thought he was right but it's just another part of his inability to work through anything vaguely emotive.

I now believe it is a form of emotional abuse, stonewalling is a good word.

Quite so, Orange, because you're a decent person with depression, not an arse with depression.

My ex husband had severe depression and wasn't like this, either. It sounds incredibly selfish and you're right, it's as though you don't exist.

So if you didn't wash for a month he wouldn't ask how you were?

If you didn't cook... Oh but that wouldn't work because you always WILL cook, won't you? He managed to eat that dinner, did he?

Is he on medication? If so, it's not working. Either way, he needs to be back at the GP.

As for your daughter, she's learning an awful lesson from him, isn't she? At least she will do as she's told so I suppose that's something. If you talk to her about emotions and relationships, does she respond? Is she able to have a conversation about this?

Btw who says it'll take years to recover from this? If he's had it since he was a boy, why will it take years from now to recover?

Yes, why will it? Mines maintained by anti depressants. It didn't take me years to recover from it.

No, am not recognising this picture of depression. Do you know any woman with depression who behaves like this? I'm betting the answer is no.

And furthermore, how exactly does your DH expect to get better? Answer: he has to put a lot of work in. To change habits of living, and thinking and world view, which is hard to do and requires real commitment and thought.

As for what you do, I would say talk to him about how you are feeling and ask him to take responsibility for his illness (if there is one) and how to manage it. Practically that means medication, GP visits, waiting list for NHS therapy, reading up on it, keeping to good habits of diet, sleep and lifestyle, plus exercise.

If he agrees and tries to change, then good. If not, I think I really would not give him any consideration he would not give me. Keep it strictly mutual and drop anything he will not share/offer, including doing his meals and laundry.

Then I would just concentrate on the relationship with your DD, including spelling out to her that kindness and consideration are things you give to each other without having to be bollocked first.

Tiptoeing around poor behaviour by depressives does neither them nor you any favours at all.

You're being admirably sympathetic about his depression and the way it makes him behave. Unfortunately, I've found that once you start making allowances for shitty behaviour being "because they're depressed", you can never separate out what is plain shitty behaviour - and they know it too.

If the washing up needs doing he'll wait for me to do it or beat himself up about not having done it rather than grit his teeth and summon up the energy to do it

See, this I would find difficult. So he'd genuinely sit there thinking "Poor me, I should have washed the dishes but I haven't and now I feel down about myself" and you have to pick up the slack because it's easier than having a conversation about it?

Very few people are too depressed to wash up. I take it he manages to function reasonably well in everyday life, hold down a job etc?

As for you feeling as if he wouldn't notice or care if you were feeling ill or stopped taking care of yourself, that's really sad.

If he's holding down a job, he can wash the dishes.

But he was being a twat about making dinner. Even if he doesn't want any, he could still do the rest of the family something to eat.

He just sounds lazy and selfish, rather than depressed to me

Does he go to work?

He's responsible for his actions, regardless of how depressed he is. I've been severely depressed in the past - I do understand it's a serious state to be in, but he's treating you terribly.

Not washing up then wallowing in self pity afterwards? That's just being a twat, I'm afraid.

Sympathise with the depression but crack down on the behaviour. Please try to separate the two if you can. It's too easy for him just now and you're not helping him by working yourself into the ground. That will just make him able to be helpless and wear you out.
He gets proper treatment, he actively engages in drugs/therapy as needed and he pulls his weight around the house. That's the minimum you need. You cannot live like this long term. Fair enough if one partner is sick/injured etc but he's settled into a pattern of you doing everything for him. This will just make you resentful and him useless.

Have you asked your GP to refer you both for counselling? You don't necessarily have to pay for it.

He's an arse. He uses 'depression' as a get out of life free card.

What treatment is he having for his depression OP? Is he taking medication? Having counselling?

I had PND and actually it did sometimes mean that summoning the energy to do something like wash up was a struggle. (Mind you, I was taking care of a 2yo and a newborn all day, and the newborn didn't sleep much at night so I was pretty exhausted) A good tip I was given was to just try doing something for 5mins and see how it went.

It didn't stop me caring about other people though.

I think the thing that really helped dh deal with it all was that he could see I was trying to get better. Asking the GP for help, taking my meds, attempting some self care. I appreciate I was lucky that I didn't feel so depressed I couldn't do any of that though.

I'm much like your DP, but I'm the only adult here so I have to get on with it. I haven't felt up to doing anything today, but a lot needed to be done, so I had to do it!

Sit down and have a word. Point out that if you eventually have enough and have to leave to preserve your own sanity, he'll have a hell of a lot on his plate all of a sudden. OR he can be a member of the family, get off his backside and do what needs to be done, and collapse into bed at 10pm like the rest of us.

I have long term depression and this is not how I would treat my DP, at all. It does sound like he is using his illness as an excuse. There are some days where I don't care about myself in the slightest but I still care more than anything about my DP and will work up the strength to help him around the house and give him the support he needs.

Is he on medication? I was referred for CBT through my GP and although it took a few weeks I didn't have to pay. Basically, is he trying to help himself?

Put down that tea towel OP, come back.

I have never heard of someone getting over depression as an adult that started in childhood. Is he on anti-depressants? Is he working? Is he going to counselling once a week?

I don't relate to this picture of depression at all (as someone with diagnosed depression starting in late childhood myself). Where is this diagnosis from? Have you heard about it from others than him?

His mum tells him off because she expects better of him, and presumably she knows he's depressed too. But she isn't letting him get away with using it as an excuse to do nothing. You are.

What does he do? I'm assuming he doesn't sit in a chair all day gazing into the distance feeling sorry for himself.

Does he have a job?
Does he have a hobby?
Does he do anything at all?

And doesn't cBT focuse on actually getting up and doing something? So...he should actually shift his bum and do the dishes or cooking.

I remember as a Lp with severe depression I found doing anything at all a struggle. But I always made sure my little ds was fed well and looked after, because I loved him.

Quite surprised by the replies if I'm honest, thought I'd get at least a little slating for DH not being able to help how he feels/acts because of the depression, but it's really good to hear from people who suffer with it too and don't behave like this. Should probably have mentioned before but it didn't even cross my mind, I had massive PND after dd was born and some days only got up to clean a bottle because she was actually waking for her next feed, but I still got up and did it, maybe because there was no-one else ready to pick up the slack though so it was that or a screaming hungry neglected child.

Didn't like admitting it to myself but agree, it does feel like being conned, but like you can't even blame the person conning you for doing it either because it's so subtle and you don't think they even realise they're doing it, it's not like someone blatently trying to pull a fast one.

DH doesn't work, he did for a couple of years when was 20 but left because he couldn't handle it and hasn't worked since, apart from freelance from home work he does which is probably the equivalent of 5-10 hours solid work a week (and equivalent pay) but takes him about 25-30 hours a week. He has genuinely been diagnosed with depression, has been through the full works of psychiatrist, CPN, too many various medications to count and it took years until he was 'settled' on the anti-depressants he's on now – he was on the maximum dose for them for about 4 years but cut it down by a third about 6 months ago, which made him less sleepy but not much change besides that. Going back a few years he wouldn't even leave the house, at all – not even to put bins out, and most days wouldn't even get dressed, so this is technically a lot better, just doesn't feel it. He's on DLA and has been for years.

He doesn't have hobbies besides tv and Xbox games (not on xbox all the time though, 2 hours a week would be more than average, and only watches tv in evenings). Social situations panic him so anything out of the house doesn't appeal. He basically spends most of his time working up to doing things, that sounds weird but 20 minutes here getting ready for a phone call and 30 minutes there getting his head round an email to someone all adds up!

No-one's said it'll take years to recover but I was just assuming if he's taken over a decade just to get to this stage that it would be a while before he'd be much more 'capable' but maybe that's just me making excuses for him? I'm not even asking a lot, just to be able to do a bit more round the house without being nagged, pay a bit more interest in me, and go and get a minimum wage job would make me very happy, but I felt before like that was similar to demanding someone in a wheelchair go out for a run with you – maybe I'm not asking too much though?

He's had counselling, sees GP fairly regularly but there's no more counselling available apparently, and GP sees him as 'functioning' so basically just tells him to keep taking the pills and do mindfulness stuff.

About his mum though, she doesn't have a go at him to make him do more, she just has a go at him because she's massively selfish, emotionally toxic and without trying to be cruel, I think she's had a huge hand in him becoming this way. I know you can't make someone depressed but she's a vicious person and certainly doesn't help, so it's not that she's got the measure of him, she just makes things worse. I'm talking about things like he had a tantrum in a shopping centre when he was 7 and she just left him, not the 'going round the aisle corner and watching' type leaving, she walked out of the shopping centre and went to a friend's and it ended up that the police had to take him home to his dad, whereupon she refused to come home from the friend's for the whole weekend. Now she'll do things like have a 10 minute rant at him because her birthday card wasn't quite right and he'll be even more depressed for a couple of weeks. I've stood up to a lot of it, which is making her behave ever so slightly better but it's difficult when all the rest of her family enable it, and DH can't bear to consider going NC.

We've had the kinds of 'if I can't take it and I leave it'll be worse' conversations before but he almost accepts it like if I left it would just be his fault and he'd have to live with it, rather than use it as a reason to motivate himself. I feel like I could actually start kicking him (not that I'm planning to!) for not doing things and he'd just sit and take it rather than get himself going.

Sorry for the long ramble, not sure if any of that is of any use! I really like the idea of separating out the depression and the behaviour, didn't see it that way before, just thought I had to excuse the behaviour because of the depression. Might sound a bit useless myself now but any tips on how to actually put that into practice? How do I insist he can do something when he feels he can't? Ie, when I've got a bad cold or similar I really can't wash up/etc and would hate someone telling me I have to give it a go, but that's only once in a blue moon and then I get better and get on with it. How do I know when to tell him to get on with it or not? Especially when most things are a problem for some reason so there's so little he 'can do' – ie phobic about germs so cleaning bathroom, floor etc is down to me automatically.

This man has spent his whole life this way. He isn't going to change. You can separate the behaviour from the depression and demand more, but you won't actually make any impression on him, because this is who he is. What is most likely to happen is that you get more and more angry and frustrated and he goes on exactly as before. He won't like you separating his behaviour from the depression and will most likely turn the emotional backmail on full if you do.

I think what you need to do is decide what is the bottom line for you, and what will happen when that point is reached, and then inform him. And when he does nothing (which will be his most likely response), then you split and move on with your life. Because otherwise this will be your life for all the years to come, and surely that is not what you want in life?

You can't police him all the time. It will exhaust you and be corrosive to the relationship. I think you and he have to try and agree things that he will do, as part of a discussion about making the effort to do more and so increase his capacity for activity.

So, for example, he could decide to start getting up at a set time every day and going out for a walk (exercise is helpful). Or he could agree to put away clean washing so many times a week. And keep his mother at more of a distance.

Your DH has to buy into it and he has to be the person to make himself do it.