If your controlling ex got worse after you left did it ever stop?

[AllOfTheCoffee]

I left the father of my 2 daughters around 2 and a half years ago because of his controlling nature.

For the first year things were very much the same. The constant arguments still carried on, the name calling back and forth, his assumption that he could still control what I did, where I went and how I organised my household and my allowing it. It was exhausting and neither of us came out it smelling of roses.

In the end I realised that one of us needed to just stop. Unfortunately this made him worse.

He'd do things such as try to find out my LL's details so he could make complaints about things he thought were issues in my house. He'd phone the school regularly to check that their lunch money had been paid on time, they'd been handing in homework and they were punctual.

I ignored all of this and any texts or messages that were not directly related to the children's welfare or contact. The messages became more frequent and more abusive, so I changed my number. He can only contact me quickly and directly via Facebook messenger and I set it so that he can only do so when he has the children with him. All other contact is via email or a third party.

He's now started to involve the children, who are 7 and 13 years old.

Two weeks ago he asked if we could meet so he could discuss dd1. When we met he went on an hour long tirade, telling me that dd1 had confided in him that she is being bullied at school because of my house, my dress sense and my job. He suggested that I move, look for a new job, get my hair done, lose weight and buy new clothes. I don't believe dd1 said any of this and did not raise the issue with her.

This weekend dd2 was invited to her cousin's party at his brothers house. She was to be picked up from his house and would be spending the night at his brothers.

3 times she was sent back to me because she was wearing or had packed something he didn't like. The third time she was in tears and it takes a lot to upset dd2. I told her not to go back and contacted ex-BIL to ask him to collect dd2 from my house.

The children have also told me that he's imposed a dress code on contact now. They must arrive freshly showered, with neatly styled hair. Clothes must be freshly washed, ironed and must be matching, with co-ordinating shoes or trainers. School shoes must not worn unless they are on their way to school. Hand me downs are not permitted to be worn at his house. Clothes must appear new and tights are not to be worn with anything other than skirts or dresses. Pjs must be matching, with slippers.

If they break these rules they'll be sent home, although this is all from the mouth of babes so they could have misunderstood. He's never told me of any such rules.

I don't know where to go from here. I'm tempted to just continue to ignore it and hope that he gets bored.

Geez can't imagine either of your dds will want to see much of him soon enough.

TBH now he's said in writing their is no dress code I'd stop engaging with him entirely.

Allof thecoffee he sounds awful. I Truly awful. I second a pp's recommendation to get that Lundy book. It should give you great insight into the way his brain works.

Documenting everything and taking a quick snap of your DC is brilliant advice too.
If they ever came home distressed, would you call a halt to visitation? Or insist on supervised contact? Your BIL sounds cool, could he help?
Control freaks, in my experience, will never be happy. They are always looking to increase their opportunity to cause hurt and anxiety. Job done if they can see that you are anxious, depressed and unsure of yourself.
I hope he backs off from all this and gives your DC the chance to enjoy their childhood and the gentle love of both parents.

No it didn't get better, it got worse - esp when he met his (high-flying city banker) new wife who did a good approximation of a geisha silly cow

Springalong, we have more than one thing in common, I also used to think it would only stop when one of us died. As it was he did die, unexpectedly, but before that glorious day the control and abuse did not abate for one minute: not a week went by without some stunt or other. It was utterly relentless for years and years.

TO THAT END, op, approach this knowing it is not going to change or get better and do everything you can to staple it down to the best of your ability. I had good lawyers at the outset who understood domestic abuse and moved swiftly to cut off as many avenues of abuse as possible. Eg he was issued with a restraining order re excessive comms; also he was barred from coming within my garden gate.

I do think you need to take seriously the effect of his excessive abuse on the children (not that you're not iyswim - but perhaps we mothers on the end of this relentless campaign can get SERIOUS about stopping these terrible men) and collect as much evidence as possible of his absurd diktats - and run with it to protect them. The new law that recognises non-physically-violent DA denotes a sea-change and perhaps it will take time for the courts (judges) to recognise the full impact of that on our kids - perhaps it's for us to push it through. There is no doubt our abusers use our children to continue to abuse and control us, which is disastrous for our children.

So, sadly, it isn't going to go away, it is going to relentlessly power on like a train, never fluctuating, gradually getting worse. I think it is the natural hope that things are bound to improve that keeps us largely 'passive'. Well, they are not going to improve so how do we protect our kids? By getting serious right now.

Read all the blurb - everything Lundy! - get on the Freedom Programme. Get yourself genned up about what you are facing.

You can do it Stanley

We need to do it for our kids

I will order the Lundy book tomorrow, first thing. I have Prime so it should come on Wednesday.

It does seem to be getting worse, in fact the further I distance myself from him the worse it gets

I'd considered approaching BIL and letting him know what's been going and asking him to maybe have a chat with him, but it feels a bit childish running to his big brother and telling of him, plus I'm not sure what he could do that hasn't already been tried by myself.

I had hoped that he would just get bored when he stopped reactions but it seems like your collective experience shows it will only continue to get worse, so I need to find another way to deal with it. If that means stopping his contact with the children, then so be it.

Sorry your having such a shit time op. I second the Lundy book. He had also written a book When dad hurts mom which is a step on front identifying the personality and explains how to deal with abusers once you have left the relationship and ways you can protect the children from the ongoing abuse. Would be really useful in your situation.

Would it be worth laughing at him? Encourage DDs to percieve him as a silly, inadequate man who is trying to be the big boss because he's actually rather pathetic? If he sends them home, keep them at home and treat all his demands as ridiculous. Because they are ridiculous and so is he.
With a bit of luck this will mean he sends some particularly furious emails which can be kept as evidence of how ludicrously unreasonable he is - and you can cut contact and block and stonewall until either he gets bored or the DDs are old enough to refuse contact with him.
There is no benefit in children having a relationship with an abusive, controlling, misogynistic father and you will do them much more good by demonstrating that men like this do not have to be obeyed and placated.

Although your DDs could have embellished his "dress rules", it sounds as though there's more than a grain of truth in what they said he had said.

The "rule" about being freshly showered and having matching pj's is very Stepford, if not downright creepy.

Can you approach the pastoral people in your DDs' schools? You can use his tirade about DD1 supposedly being bullied as an intro into suggesting that someone (i.e. a third party) have a chat with her. The schools could well have formed their own opinion from his contacts with them.

I know that best practice is frequent contact, and no slagging off the other parent. But sometimes, when I've read threads like this, I do wonder whether children are taking their cues from the reasonable parent, so don't feel able to say that the other parent is a controlling asshole. (But I don't recommend saying that in your DDs' hearing, as that could be alleged by a controlling asshole as parental alienation.)

Your DD1 is 13 years old. Cafcass and the Family Court would take her views seriously. A good Cafcass person would be able to distinguish between indifference and resignation. And a good Cafcass person knows the difference between a 7-year-old's adoration versus compliance.

If you can start small, and slowly, via the schools or another third party, that could work well. But if (when) it gets to the point that your DDs reveal that contact is stressful, then pull the plug, let him take you to court. Controlling bullies often are outraged that anybody else's voice is heard other than theirs, but most Family Court judges are used to that.

No, it's dangerous to laugh at this type - simply bcs there is no low they wouldn't go in the payback.

I also don't think it's a good idea to encourage kids to laugh at their own parent in a derisory way. It fucks up the kids, not the parent.

You have no obligation to provide any clothes for his house at all. Any formal agreement should stipulate this. I suggest at the very least a new formal legal agreement. One way or another get legal advice for you and DC.

Controlling bullies often are outraged that anybody else's voice is heard other than theirs That's pretty much what my mum has said about it.

She thinks he is so outraged that I left him that I must be punished at all costs, even to the detriment of his children.

I didn't laugh at him but I did tell dd2 that she wasn't to pay any attention to it and that he wasn't trying to upset her, he was trying to upset me but it wasn't working so she shouldn't worry about it. In hindsight it was probably wasn't the right thing to say, but she was so upset and had been really looking forward to her cousin's sleepover, I needed her to know that it wasn't about her and she shouldn't be upset by it.

I'm now being bombarded with emails asking if I think it's okay to send them out in dirty clothes and school shoes with tights, which I'm ignoring

I think you should reply with one sentence saying that you have never sent them to him with dirty clothes. Otherwise if you don't deny it, he might make it look as though you have been doing this.

school shoes with tights

What's wrong with school shoes with tights? Is it me?

I've created an email folder to save all correspondence and have searched through and moved all old emails to this folder.

I think this is a really good idea! Perhaps print some of them out too.

Sorry to tell you that I still being made to pay for ending it, 11 years on. It gets worse and no matter what approach you take, it won't work if he's anything like my ex

It's awful and I feel for you and your dc, you just have to try to manage the madness

I don't think you said the wrong thing to dd2

But I think you should stop exposing her to it in the first place, I really do

It's not your fault. But you are a grown adult and he still fucked you up. What does his approach to managing others do to a growing child ?

miao, only commoners wear school shoes outside of school. It's wrong and it makes her appear neglected and scruffy. They are 2 week old Hush Puppies, that she is wearing because they are new. She'll get bored of them soon enough.

She wore the tights with jeans, this allegedly indicates that we have no money or clean socks and again makes her look neglected and scruffy. She is 7, they are Minion tights, 'nuff said, really She has minion socks, but they're not as minion-y as the tights she tells me. I'm not sure how anyone would know they are tights, unless he's allowing her to remove her jeans in public.

AF, this is the first time, to my knowledge that he has directly involved the children in his nasty little games. If she comes back in tears again contact will stop, in the meantime I'm going to read the books suggested on here and start to compile evidence. I have no doubt that if/when it does go to court he will paint me to be the worst mother in the world.

Then get your ducks in a row: preemptive strike.

Get every authority onside - HV, GP, school. Talk to the first two openly about the dynamics (get it on record); the school more circumspectly. Do you have a good relationship with these people? Is there any skeleton he may use? If so: damage limitation. Do whatever it takes, get these people thinking you are wonderful, sensible, good mommy. Join the PTA, do community stuff (pillar of), get on committees, be a trustee. Get visible so you are known (good egg) and ppl can vouch for you should it come to it.

I'm tired, sorry, didn't word that very well - not 'get these people thinking you are a good mommy' etc but let it be seen you're a good mommy! Get visible in other words.

Sorry, people do not want to be involved. I did all of the "good" community stuff - it has not worked at all. School just told court we were both difficult to deal with. No body is interested in character references, especially not the courts. Cafcass officer has just left - abusive ex to get equal holiday time and I am likely to lose my maintenance. So it doesn't matter the sacrifices that I have made.

Ah well...If it's obvious to him that you have no money for socks etc then he can resolve this by paying more maintenance can't he? Same goes for the shoes. If he doesn't like the ones she's wearing, he can always buy her more. Good luck with getting her to wear them though

I'm sorry to hear it didn't go well springalong.

Unfortunately due to work commitments I wouldn't be able to join any committees or PTAs however I do attend parents evenings, sports days etc. I am the visible parent at the school. I'm not sure they've ever met ex-p in person.

As far as skeletons go I've known this man since my late teens, so he knows about the time I lost my sister's child in the supermarket and the time I got drunk and was sick outside the bus shelter etc, but nothing major or recent that I can think of.

Sounds like you are handling this well, OP. Good idea, when his ridiculous 'rules' are passed on to you by the dcs, to email him asking him to clarify, confirm or deny, setting up a paper trail. Don't be drawn in to giving answers to his damn fool questions.

He sounds repulsive, bet you're glad not to be with him anymore!

Glad to hear that one more incident like this, upsetting the DCs, sending them home for non compliance with his headfuckery will result in you keeping them safely with you. I'd be quietly building a case against him.

I've been reading MN for a while now, but had to join today so I could give you another side ( hopefully it'll help).

My ex sounds exactly the same as yours, we split 5 years ago, same behaviour, dictated exactly the same way, and still try's to this day. The difference now is it goes over my head and I ignore him completely.

We went to court and Cafcass were involved, they interviewed myself, and the children all seperately ( incidentally, I had never stopped contact, but he wanted contact his way!). Cafcass and the court pulled all overnight contact and only allowed him daytime access with another adult present as they felt his behaviour was detrimental to the children. I didn't have to do anything, he did it to himself, his behaviour was evident in the end. Don't get me wrong, it was a long and stressful journey ( I represented myself in court too!) but, it was worth it for the children.

Where we are now is DS1 refuses to have any contact with his dad, DS2 is now just at a similar stage and DS3 ( who has always been his dad's favourite) wants to see his dad but I'm not so happy about alone contact, so it looks like it'll be back to court.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel, you're doing a great job, and he knows it, which is why he's behaving in this way, he can't match your parenting, so he's jealous, it's that simple.

I'm so sorry springalong

I separated from my EA ex over seven years ago and the controlling behaviour is still carrying on. I found if I gave in to everything and tried to be passive in the hope he would give up, he would get worse until he got a reaction. I now just pick my battles and try not to get walked over too much.

I will add a 'better' ending too:
Similar crap and controlling behaviour. DD now 16 has chosen not to see her father as a result...repeated messaging means she has blocked him (her instigation) and despite threatening court action, there is absolutely nothing he can do. Her mental health is far better now she has taken control of her situation.