gas lighting being harmless ?

[Pigzoom]

Hi
I was reading about gas lighting in the early hours last night. I basically thought my DP gaslights me, and I was right. Examples- he always says "you are just too sensitive" but then I'm left saying but Even if I am I'm still feeling upset so there's still an issue to deal with.
Or he says "you need help, you don't get on with anyone"
Can't think of other examples now but after arguments (too many at moment) I'm always left distraught and confused and left to just get on with life even though I'm hurt and upset.
I told him this morning about gas lighting and how he does this to me. He had tears in his eyes and was very apologetic.
So I ask if any of you have knowledge and experience - can you gaslight without realising and can you still be a good person just an arsehole when it comes to confrontations etc. Or could it be a learnt trait from his father.?
Basically should I LTB (?) or Can it be worked on. We plan to go to relate once I'm back at work next year

I'm always left distraught and confused and left to just get on with life even though I'm hurt and upset

I don't understand how this relates to your title - it's not "harmless", is it? He is manipulative and thoughtless yes.

I'm asking myself the same question sometimes. I would like to think it's not deliberate but I'm sure it is even if it's subconscious.

what's gas lighting?

Bitta pitta- yes you are right, hard to see on the inside
I suppose I was thinking after arguments. But I suppose happy couples don't make each other feel like this. I don't know what a good relationship is though

Gas lighting is a form of abuse. So the word is taken from a play where the husband dimmed the gas lights but told the wife they weren't dim it's in her imagination.
So if my DP and I argue and I said you upset me because you said blah blah he would dimiss my feelings and emotions as in my head- too sensitive, etc

Out of interest, does he always want to 'win' these discussions? Are they combative?

I think you can do it without realising. If you've got kids I'm sure you've done it to them 'don't be so silly, it's not that big a deal', 'stop overreacting' etc etc. At heart gas lighting is infantilising - i.e. 'You may think you feel like that but I know better/I understand you're overreacting/being childish' - so men tend to do it to women and we all tend to do it to children. If you genuinely think he didn't realise, give him another chance. After years, I still have to remind dp that if I say something's upset me it's because I'm upset, not because I delight in psychological mind games. If he takes your comments on board after a first try, you're on a winner.

Do not LTB. You've recognised his poor behaviour and articulated it clearly to him.......he has acknowledged it with tears
That's progress
Relationships evolve , change develop

Its never harmless at all pigzoom.

We learn about relationships from our parents, what did he learn from his mum and dad?.

Look at what you learnt about relationships and seek help to get all the crap unlearnt through counselling. You state you do not know what a good relationship is; I guess no-one ever bother to show you what one of those is like did they?. Its certainly not the relationship you are in now; he likely targeted you OP because your radar is well skewed.

The Freedom Programme for you may well be beneficial as would giving this man the boot as of now.

I would not believe his tears unlike the previous respondent; these can also be manipulative and designed to tug at your heartstrings. Look at his actions as well as his words OP; a man who tells you, "you need help, you do not get on with anyone" is someone who is projecting HIS own behaviour onto you.

Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse “in which information is twisted or spun, selectively omitted to favor the abuser, or false information is presented with the intent of making victims doubt their own memory, perception, and sanity.”

Essentially, gaslighting is a tactic used to destabilize your understanding of reality, making you constantly doubt your own experiences.

Most of the time, this tactic is used to further uneven power balances with abusive partners, making you second guess yourself when you feel as if you are being abused or attacked.

Even if a relationship seems otherwise non-abusive, gaslighting is emotional and mental violence. This process in and of itself is toxic and unhealthy.

Do not even bother going to Relate with him. Joint counselling is never advisable when there is abuse of any sort within the relationship and make no mistake, this is abuse. NO decent counsellor would ever see the two of you together anyway.

You know, I'm quite quick on here to suggest counselling.
But I look back now over about 20 relationships of varying lengths (some v short!) and I'm thinking...
19 haven't worked. 1 - who knows if it will.

In the 19, only one have I had counselling (one session, and it was my husband, and we went because HE was a cheating arsehole).

The others haven't worked - but simply cos the spark isn't always enduring - not because anyone was abusive.

I think counselling is great. I think many relationships could improve from it - but not NEED it.

These days I'm coming to the conclusion that if you need counselling, that's a bloody good reason to consider just walking away.

Choose a man who doesn't need to be counselled out of being an arse.

I'm very at the possibility of crocodile tears. He can not care about upsetting you and belittling you in an argument, yet he's Mr Sensitive Tiny Tears when it seems you might be on a lightbulb moment of realising it's HIM not YOU? Hmmmmm.

My understanding is that gaslighting is deliberately unsettling someone by changing the story. eg saying something did happen when it didn't or vice versa.

It might be that he's confused because he thinks the issue is resolved during the argument, but obviously it isn't - which is distressing for you but maybe frustrating for him as well?

Give Relate a go - hopefully they will be able to get to what the problem is.

Dear Pigzoom please listen carefully to Attila (she deserves a medal for services to (me) the victims of abuse).

Gaslighting is never accidental. Of course we can all say something hurtful or stupid at times, the difference is when we become aware that our statement has hurt someone we genuinely apologise and make a point of explaining our reasons and motivation for the comment, not rely on a blanket 'it's not me, it's you' response. Did your partner just say 'I'm sorry'? (with tears of course).

Cabrinha also got it spot on with 'I'm very hmm at the possibility of crocodile tears. He can not care about upsetting you and belittling you in an argument, yet he's Mr Sensitive Tiny Tears when it seems you might be on a lightbulb moment of realising it's HIM not YOU? Hmmmmm'.

And as for spudlike1's he has acknowledged it with tears. My ex could weep buckets at the drop of a hat whenever I had a lightbulb moment and challenged him on some fuckwittery or other - I'm still counting the (thankfully metaphorical) stab wounds in my back.

Counselling? Nah, just realise that abusive people look for all the good traits and strengths they lack in a partner and will tear you down piece by piece. You must be pretty fab Pigzoom so take all your loveliness and move on. Good luck.

I appreciate all replies. Just mulling it over.
So today, I've had a bad day, he knows this. I get the kids ready for bed much later than usual and downstairs instead of upstairs and ended up getting the eldest to bed later than usual, the baby goes down later as not established a good routine yet. I was carrying the baby and the eldests teddies to tAke her to bed and then to come back down with baby. DP is upstairs and I ask him if he could help me get her up the stairs I can't carry her and she's lying on the bottom step refusing. He says to her "come on walk up the stairs". I say "it's later than usual I doubt she'll walk up ,any chance you can just pick her up then I can get on. "
He says "no you asked me to help you I do it my way. "
I say "but she really won't get up she's stubborn, I'm tired and want to get her to bed. "
He says " no ill do it my own way."
I say "I really don't want you to be stubborn at the same time as her. I can't do this."
Is he being a prick?

I think he is being a prick but I really trust that you guys who've already replied can help me. I really appreciate anyone taking time out to teply.
He also picked her up in the end but told me she didn't move because I said she wouldn't move

Gas lighting is one of the cruelest, most horrible forms of abuse designed to make the victim think that they are going crazy and to shut down further discussion.

What did he say to that? When you clearly stated what you wanted (by saying what you didn't want)? Did he do it his way (which strikes me as a somewhat lazy way of dealing with the situation)?

Gaslighting

He took her up stairs on the end but said it was my fault she didn't walk up as I had said out loud she wouldn't.
He also told me to stop shouting at him when I put her to bed and came down and said I didn't want a power struggle with her and him at same time. I then took baby up to put her to bed.
I told him this morning in floods of tears that I couldn't be a mum anymore. So really he needed to step up.

Were you shouting? (If not, you know what that's an example of) You are coming across as a bit depressed to me tbh, which is understandable given what you're coping with. Do you have anyone to talk to in RL?

Omg that's made me cry. Yes I am probably depressed. I had a counsellor I saw before I had my DC2, stopped due to having DC2. Saw her for 18months but she just said that relationships are hardwork and I shouldn't throw it away. She annoyed me. Maybe i should see someone else.

In that last example, he is 100% correct. She would definitely have been influenced not to walk by your comments that she wouldn't. Repeated comments.

This sounds like a bad environment for the children and they will often play both parents off against each other when there is this negative and argumentative vibe.

Agree with the poster that you sound depressed. For sure your husband has behaved bad from your OP, however I would bet my mortgage that his view of what has been happening will be VERY different from yours. Some serious discussions need to be had with both of you in an open mind.

Well, counsellors aren't there to be your friend, but the one you had shouldn't have been telling you what not to do, more getting you to the point where you can acknowledge what might be your best course of action. How did you find your last counsellor? Tears such as you describe are a sign of depression and if you tell your GP how you're feeling he/she can refer you to a counsellor for a minimum of six sessions - unless that's how you got your last one!

My last counsellor I've seen on and off for ten years. My DM told me about her and she used to counsel my DM 20+ years ago. The counsellor has made me feel worse as she said just before I finished the 18 months that my family saw me as the difficult one.
I've always cried at least once a week or more. So I don't know what's normal or not.
I know it's not good for children. I want a happy home for my children. Otherwise the cycle will continue.

And sorry, but I agree with RealityCheque that your DD would have stayed there if she knew that was what you expected of her anyway. Perhaps, when you are feeling up to it, you and DP could commit to doing a parenting course together? Just so that you're singing from the same hymn sheet in parenting your DCs.

I'm Going to see a doctor and get referral, I think.