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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

6 year old refusing to go with dad, where do I stand.

42 replies

Icandoanything · 04/10/2015 12:29

Ex and I had an acrimonious split last June and contact with the father was only formalised through mediation in Sept this year due to him inability to actually respond to my emails for regular contact.

My son sees his dad Mon 5.30 - 7.00, Weds 3.06 - 6.00 and Sun 11.30 - 6. He picks him up from childminder and school on Mon and Weds and from my house on Sun. My son was reluctant to go at the start and got very distressed on the first visit, so I said I wasn't going to physically force him. Since then he's generally been fine, but today he did refuse to go and got very distressed again, I took him out of the house by hand and tried to get him to go, but he ran back in. I tried talking to him, asking him why he didn't want to go etc (apparently because he makes him play sports for too long and he gets tired), saying he always had a good time with dad but he was crying and saying he didn't want to go. And again, short of me picking him up and physically making him go with ex, there literally wasn't anything else I could do.

Ex doesn't believe in compromise and in his words, he's a child, he doesn't get to decide. He refused to come and speak to him in the house, told him he had to come, basically didn't speak to him but told him. When I said, I wasn't going to physically make him, he walked off.

Son has said he will go with him on Mon and Weds, but I'm wondering what the legal implications of this situation could be. I did my best to try, but know my ex will claim that I should have physically (sorry, that word again!) forced him. My ex is a pretty nasty piece of work and I can see him cataloguing things like this, and the fact that he had to wait 10 mins (we were late as had been to my mums burying a family pet) as evidence against me and trying to prove I'm restricting his rights, as he has claimed in the past.

Can he claim I am restricting access by not making my son go with him when he is crying and clearly saying he doesn't want to go? I always make sure son is available the times and days we have arranged, but what happens when son really doesn't want to go? I would love to be able to talk to my ex about this and try and solve the situation by compromise but unfortunately, there is no compromise in his world.

Any advice welcome

OP posts:

Aqualady · 04/10/2015 12:33

Goodness that sounds awful.

Personally I think you did the right thing but I don't know if it will be the right thing in the courts eyes?

I'm sure someone with more knowledge will be sling soon

MissMarpleCat · 04/10/2015 12:38

If you had just buried a pet then it's not surprising he didn't want to go, he's probably upset and wants his mum. I feel so sorry for kids in this position. I have a friend who has to force her dc's to see their dad as per court decision

Elendon · 04/10/2015 13:03

Thankfully my ex does not force his children to go with him if they don't want to. I just think how awful it has come to this.

Original poster

Icandoanything · 04/10/2015 14:12

It is awful, I agree. I can't believe my life has turned out like this, that there is so much animosity towards me from him, that he's logging when I'm ten mins late for personal reasons, everything he seems to do has nothing to do with the good of our child.

OP posts:

sykadelic · 04/10/2015 19:49

Well I suppose that it all depends on how you'd feel if the situation were reversed.

How would you feel if when the changeover time came, your son didn't want to leave and ran into your exes house refusing to come with you. Would you expect him to bring him out and hand him to you? I would suspect parental alienation, I would be hurt and I would think you were deliberately making it harder.

Unfortunately, the courts agree with your ex. Your son is 6 y/o and therefore is a child. You don't let him choose to put on his coat in winter. You don't let him "order" his dinner every night. You don't let him not go to school. You make it clear that there are some things he doesn't have a choice about, just like going to school, spending time with his father is for his benefit. His father isn't hurting him, and unless he is, he needs to go, and if he is, then you go back to court/file charges. You don't allow the theatrics, he doesn't get a choice. You said short of "physically forcing him" you didn't have any other choice but you did, you just didn't want to be "the bad guy" because you don't think that seeing his father is something you should force him to do. If we were talking about school or anything else you would have acted differently.

ChunkyPickle · 04/10/2015 19:58

syk - but if his father was there, why is it her responsibility to be the bad guy? Why not him? I don't think that I would physically carry my child into school if all other methods of persuasion didn't work - or at least I would go with him.

That's not possible here, so it would need to be the father doing the forcing as he is the one that the child will be staying with

I have no knowledge or answers here, just sympathy.

ChunkyPickle · 04/10/2015 20:01

In fact I don't think any of those comparisons stand up Syk - I wouldn't force feed my child unless his health was at risk, and I wouldn't force him to wear a coat (although I would bring one for when he got cold) - for the simple reason, that at 6, whilst they may be a child, they're old enough to know their own mind about a lot of things, and old enough to learn about consequences (hunger, cold).

TheWrathofNaan · 04/10/2015 20:02

I was told by carcass I had to physically make my children go to their dads. I was told to throw them over my shoulder and make them go.

goawayalready · 04/10/2015 20:08

umm according to social services you never force a child even if there is a court order there is a reason for refusal and that must be adhered to children have voices and should be listened to if he doesn't want to go and do sports at his dad's why is he making him? what kind of cock puts looking like a good parent in front of actually being one? (i mean men as well as women that's why i didn't put "dad")

he refused to come into the house and speak to him he could have diffused the situation he chose not to this is not your fault!

keep a record of everything get witnesses to handover if necessary offer to go to mediation if he wants to go the court route they will want you to go to mediation first anyway ffs its a child not a possession!

DreamingOfAFullNightsSleep · 04/10/2015 20:14

I fully agree with those who are supporting the child. I wouldn't force mine to eat anything they don't like. One of my then 2 yo days didn't wear a coat the entirety of last winter at his own choice. His dad should have come in and spoken to him.

Throw them over your shoulder and physically force them to go makes me feel sick . These poor children. They have a right and a voice too.

goawayalready · 04/10/2015 20:15

i dont understand cafcass stating that you have to force a child? they just make court recommendations for the judge nothing to do with the actual contact order

IguanaTail · 04/10/2015 20:18

This is interesting. I wonder what the legal position is.

goawayalready · 04/10/2015 20:24

i can find nothing about the actual legal position online im no expert all i know is i "forced" my son to see his dad once and social services said not to do it again because he has the right to say no

IguanaTail · 04/10/2015 20:25

I think I would log everything yourself OP. Write down the steps you are taking to try to get your son to co-operate. Don't leave the logging to your ex if you know he's going to put a horrible slant on it.

TheWrathofNaan · 04/10/2015 20:29

Go away

Make children were clearly stating that they did not want to see their father to the carcass officer and threatening to refuse and run away etc. this was the officers response.

As I have said before their is a huge misconception that women have the upper hand in court. My experience is that they are determined that the children will see the father.

TheWrathofNaan · 04/10/2015 20:30

My not make

goawayalready · 04/10/2015 20:30

i would have hoped the children's opinions were uppermost in court

riverboat1 · 04/10/2015 20:35

It is up to both parents to co operate and make the transition as easy as possible because IME though the moment of transition might be very difficult for the child, they are likely to recover very quickly afterwards.

If a young child refuses to go with NRP every time and is permitted to make that decision, they will end up with no relationship with one of their parents without understanding the long term consequences of that.

If it is a genuine one off or if the NRP is genuinely not treating the child right, that is one thing. But otherwise the parents should work together to make the transition happen IMO.

TheWrathofNaan · 04/10/2015 20:35

Go away- have you had any experience of court?

IguanaTail · 04/10/2015 20:38

Is it not cafcass? Tell me they haven't changed their name to carcass?

TheWrathofNaan · 04/10/2015 20:38

Sorry carcass

TheWrathofNaan · 04/10/2015 20:39

It auto corrects

IguanaTail · 04/10/2015 20:39

If only cafcass did auto-correct at times!

TheWrathofNaan · 04/10/2015 20:42

There is a thread on mumsnet today where a mum has had a nmo, a broken nose etc, child been assaulted etc and contact is still ordered. Where a solicitor has hidden evidence etc.

Going to avoid this thread now as people with no experience of family court seem to live in a parallel universe to me.

Original poster

Icandoanything · 04/10/2015 20:48

Thank you to everyone for their responses, it's interesting to hear other people's experiences as there seems to be a lot of mixed information, legally surrounding this. Some websites seem to say it's the child's right to see the father, not the other way round, therefore his interests will be listened to, other information seems to say at 6, they won't be listened to by the court and legal system.

I too agree that at 6 children have an opinion and a voice. It seems ridiculous to me that if a child reacted like this at school (I'm a teacher), it would be logged and taken seriously, but when it comes down to a parent, it seems it's on me to force him to go. Makes no sense. I find it so sad that in this day in age, children are told to be more independent, but in circumstances like this, are told their opinion does not count. Yes, my son is 6, and would I let him make up his mind on whether he goes to school, doctors, dentist? No. But has my son ever refused to go to any of these? No. Has my son ever acted like this with anyone but my ex? No.

This occurrence is a rarity, and I know that when he does see his dad, he enjoys spending time with him. That's not to say he may not want to go sometimes, especially on days where his normal routine has been interrupted eg today with the family pet. And the sad circumstance is, that if I had suggested to my ex, that he pick him up later, so my son didn't have to go straight out with him after returning from my mums, my ex would have said I was trying to restrict his access. So if I had said, can you pick him up an hour later, but drop him back an hour later, so you get the same amount of time with him but my son has time between returning and going straight out again, he'd have said no, to be difficult. Not thinking what may be best for our son, but to be awkward, that's the kind of person he is. When it was all going on, and ex was telling son, he had to come as he was the parent, you are the child, you do what I said, I interjected to be a little sensitive about his pet dying, and he said it was no excuse. Who says that to a 6 year old?! I'm 34 and was upset about the pet dying, let alone a child!

So thank you for your support and advice, I intend to seek legal advice during half term week or sooner so I know where I stand on this and will certainly be logging events like this and asking the childminder and school for any updates when ex picks him up.

OP posts:

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