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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Original poster

lost at what to do....

64 replies

myheadsspinning · 02/10/2015 20:13

my older sister (76) is seriously ill in hospital with cancer and other problems.
I love her.
But, in the late 1950's she was married with a child.
When the marriage ended, her husband took her son back to his mother to bring up, as my sister was homeless and with no support at all.
She never spoke about him at through they decades, as it must have been so painful to lose him.
As I said, she is dangerously ill now, and a few weeks ago spoke about her son for the first time ever.
She "always thought about him every day of my life" she said, whilst so frail and poorly.
Well, I have been actually searching for him for a long time now, and finally this week I managed to locate him.
We met 3 days ago.
I wanted to make sure it really is him, not to bring her false hope.
It is her son.
He is 57 now, a grown man.
But, But, But.....I am selfishly devastated now.

Sadly, her son, my nephew has the emotional age of 10/11.
He could communicate with me as far as saying how many star wars characters and dvd's he has got, how many figures etc.
He held my hand as a child might.
He has "told me off" today for not texting him to say I had arrived home safely, and so on.
He only spoke about his possessions and "interests", not remotely interested in a two way conversation with me.

Shame on me, that finding my nephew unable to communicate as an adult, I am afraid to say, I am unsure that my sister seeing her son in this way, could send her in a spiral of depression.
I asked his carer if he could manage the travel...trains and underground, but she said she would have to take him herself.
Would I be such a heartless cow (and in my sisters interests) to delay taking him to see her.???????????????????????????????????????My sister is bed bound, unable to walk/stand, and can barely eat now.
I am afraid the emotional upheaval may affect her so much.

OP posts:
Puzzledandpissedoff · 02/10/2015 23:28

I wouldn't see it as "exercising a right" exactly; surely it's more about making a compassionate choice for everyone's sake

Given the love for your sister which shines out of every post, I don't think anyone would have the right to criticize whatever you opt to do ... and on he evidence so far I'm absolutely certain your decision will be the right one Smile

MinnieF1 · 02/10/2015 23:31

If she says she's thought about him every single day of her life, then she probably has.

I'm sorry but I don't think you have the right to decide what happens next (as you've already said). It would be different if you'd found him on Facebook or something, but you've actually gone to meet him. To hide that from her when she has opened up to you would be wrong.

Give her the facts (not the nasty step mother or anything else which is upsetting and not relevant) and let her decide.

I think if you also have to consider how you will feel when she dies. You're obviously torn about this (understandably).

It must be such a difficult situation Thanks

Tiggeryoubastard · 02/10/2015 23:31

I think he's the primary concern here. Would it be in or against his interests to meet someone about to die?

Original poster
myheadsspinning · 02/10/2015 23:43

Compassion and love.
That is just about it.
If my sweet, frail and vulnerable sister asks again of news of her son, I will tell her.
In the meantime I will speak to my nephew on the phone, and even visit him again.
If he mentions his mother I will say she is too poorly for visitors just now.
It will take him minimum of couple hours each way.
I,m sure he will reply....okay....then change the subject.
He is constantly texting me.....about nothing in particular.......so maybe it is part of his personality.
His carer was speaking to me today but had to stop as he came in at that time.
So for now, that is my plan, but when I wake up tomorrow I may think differently.

OP posts:
cozietoesie · 02/10/2015 23:55

...He is constantly texting me.....about nothing in particular.......so maybe it is part of his personality...

On the other hand, maybe he wants to have a family and be part of something ?

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/10/2015 15:44

You mentioned that you'd spoken to the carer; were they able to shed any light on the best way forward with this? And are they likely to know if the "constant texting" is an expected thing for him or if it might be more significant?

Very much thinking of you ...

Original poster
myheadsspinning · 03/10/2015 16:38

thank you all for different replies.
I did ring, but was unable to discuss my nephew with his carer, as he came in at that time.
I think once I am able to be positive in my mind about his personal situation, to see the whole picture, I will feel easier.
He text me today,.... just a simple... ru ok.....which I replied to saying I was fine.
Then another saying he was ok.

On top of this, I have just received an email from my sisters husbands daughter saying she has signed an adult at risk form,....to try to protect my sister from her abusive husband... as there may be developments in a week or so.
So much backstory through the decades that it is all coming to a head now.
So, for today, I will try to relax ,as nothing can be achieved right now.

OP posts:
TheMarxistMinx · 03/10/2015 16:39

I don't believe we have the right to "protect" people from the truth.

He is her son, she is his mother.

Everyday imperfect, ill, vulnerable, sometimes even wicked people are in relationships of all kinds, siblings, parents, children...

It matters not whether someone is dying they are who they are, and in the case of your sister...part of who she is, is a mother.

It matters not whether he is a high court judge or a person with the intellect of a six year old, he has a mother. One that he has a right to meet. Why should he be denied the opportunity to see her.

It is not for you to keep the truth from people. It seems that there was once a time when someone decided that she could not be a parent to her child, would you repeat that?

I think the fact that he seems to have Lds is irrelevant.

Yes the "shock" or the concern will worry her, but I can't see how it will worry her anymore than dying without having seen her son.

I think the most ethical thing to do is to be honest, and to respect her/his wishes, and to facilitate and help in the way asked of you.

cozietoesie · 03/10/2015 16:54

...I don't believe we have the right to "protect" people from the truth...

And that's where we differ - I think we have an obligation to protect people where the facts might cause damage and there is no hope of resolving the issues which result. The OP has already taken action to find out where her sister's child is so she's already gone beyond what you suggest - it's not as if the son suddenly turned up on the hospital doorstep seeking his mother.

That's me though - albeit based on direct experience of similar problems. This is not a situation on which I would like to advise a decision in either direction so I'll simply support the OP in whatever she chooses to do.

Twinklestein · 03/10/2015 17:20

I agree with TheMarxistMinx & MinnieF1

It's a difficult situation, but I don't think you have the right to play God.

It's not a good idea to manipulate, however good your intentions are, because you've no idea of the consequences of your actions.

Be honest with your sister, tell the truth, and if she chooses to see him, that's up to her.

You can't be sure that it would be a negative for her, or indeed for him.

pastaofplenty · 03/10/2015 17:21

Can she not know about him but without a face-to-face meeting?

Perhaps some photos, a letter (penned by carer), a "white lie" - he lives abroad maybe or is unable to travel.

Would this be a happy compromise?

TheMarxistMinx · 03/10/2015 17:27

In the same way that Op has a right to make the decision she chooses, her sister should also have that right. But again, the sister may decide she wants to meet her son, and that does impact upon her health. It could then be said that the sister made a wrong decision and OP supported a wrong decision! its a very difficult thing isn't it. But I do believe we have a duty to tell the truth. What people do with it is very much up to them. And I guess if my 85 year old father said he wanted to go bungee jumping, knowing it would probably kill him. I would respect him in this, only after I had ascertained that he had the full facts at his disposal and was sane enough to decide. I am not certain that my desire to protect him trumps his right to do as he likes! What I might not do is "support" him in this.

Hard to support a wrong decision, but then again the sister will need help, and support, and one doesn't know beforehand the outcome of any decision. Otherwise life would be simple and very happy. It is only in retrospect we know whether the choices we made were good ones. The sister has little time for reflection, and I guess it seems to me the most loving thing to do, is to respect her wishes.

And so it comes back full circle. We support OP to make a decision, and OP wants to know if she should allow and then support her sister's decision.

Original poster
myheadsspinning · 03/10/2015 17:29

( three weeks ago )my dear sister spoke about the loss of her son over 50 years earlier, and the pain she suffered every day of her life since then.

Since that day , in great pain, and frail, she hasn't had the mental strength to talk about it again.
Perhaps it is a battle to survive now for her, that all her energy is focused in that direction?
But, when I visit next, I will say I have found her child, and simply listen to her thoughts.
If she wants to see him one last time, I will take him to her.
On the other hand, perhaps I also have a moral responsibility to take my nephew to her.
But yes, I agree, the ultimate decision is not for me, but mother and son.

OP posts:
cozietoesie · 03/10/2015 18:04

Good luck with whatever happens, myhead - you can always come here to talk if you need to.

By the way, yhe position and actions of your sister's husand's daughter seem most peculiar to me - always have - so I'd maybe be a little careful there.

Hope you get out on the beach tomorrow.

TheMarxistMinx · 03/10/2015 18:05

You sound like a very fabulous sister Flowers

cozietoesie · 03/10/2015 18:07

*the

Puzzledandpissedoff · 03/10/2015 19:02

I think the most ethical thing to do is to be honest, and to respect her/his wishes, and to facilitate and help in the way asked of you

But surely that's just the point - OP hasn't been asked to do anything. Her sister sounds sadly too ill to mention her son at the moment, and the son may or may not be capable of deciding what he'd prefer

It honestly doesn't sound to me as if OP's trying to claim "rights" or "play god"or anything else - it just seems she's trying to do the best thing for everyone in very difficult circumstances

And now there's more possible unpleasantness coming from the abusive husband's direction Sad I really am so sorry, OP ... just go right on doing what you consider wise for those you love, knowing that no matter what you decide you've done it with the very best of intentions

LadyLonely1 · 03/10/2015 19:33

I'm sorry I don't have anything useful to add, just to say your sister is very lucky to have you in her life Flowers

RomiiRoo · 03/10/2015 20:12

I think you can only make the decision that seems right at the time, and not second guess all the ifs and buts.
In some ways, knowing the mental age of her DS might give her some solace that he did not ever come looking for her? She must worry that he resents her for not bringing him up and doesn't want to know or hasn't been told about her.
But he's a man with severe learning difficulties who texts to ask if you are okay; if he could text his mum, he would do the same. Even just to see him and hold his hand - don't you think that would be better than not knowing? Nobody can undo the past but it is part of what makes us who we are. So your nephew is part of her history and could be a little bit of her present and in your future.

I haven't followed your threads, it sounds like a lot to deal with, so be gentle with yourself.

Original poster
myheadsspinning · 03/10/2015 20:41

Lady lonely........yes, I am in my sisters life......and love her.....but since the late 70,s her husband isolated her from her family, but despite his cruel intentions, it is her who is loved......but he is despised,even by his own blood....but now he can,t prevent me being there for her.

Yes,he could be a short part of her present and part of my future.
I have read each and every reply carefully......initially I was so shocked when I realised my nephew had difficulties, it was not anything I had prepared myself for but now I have a different perspective on it all.
Actually, my nephew was told his mother had abandoned him.

OP posts:
amarmai · 03/10/2015 20:56

It's been on your sister's mind every day. She has kept silent in pain and spoken now because she is dying. Her son has thought of his mother too and has asked when he can see her. He asked that question for many years of his life as a child. Let your sister decide and tell her the truth.

CainInThePunting · 03/10/2015 21:15

You have a hell of a decision on your hands OP and you seem to be handling it pretty well.
I agree you have got to play this by ear, your gut will tell you how to move.

Readers can say 'oh well I would see it this way...' But readers are just that, readers. You are living it so trust your own instincts. I think you will get it right.

Flowers
shebefierce · 04/10/2015 10:20

Is there a middle ground (prepares to be flamed!). Could you show her photos of him, tell her he is well and happy but unable to travel due to family commitments / plausible reason? Tell her he has a good, productive life with people he cares about. It's not entirely a lie, and might give her comfort without worry. Or is that a terrible idea?

CesareBorgiasUnicornMask · 04/10/2015 13:16

Just coming at it from a slightly different perspective OP - I'm currently sitting cuddling my toddler DS, and I obviously don't know what's going to happen to him in life - he may turn out to have learning difficulties, he may get ill, or have an accident... The worst thing I can imagine though is just losing him- saying goodbye one day and then not knowing how he is or what's happened to him. I think if I were in your sister's position (and obviously I'm not, and we are all different) I would just want to see him. To see for myself properly that he was alive, and hopefully relatively happy, and I think.his learning difficulties would be incidental to that, provided I was reassured he would.continue to be cared for. So if you think he's up to it, I think k if possible you should facilitate a meeting.

Also, having worked as a carer for adults with learning disabilities, many of whom has-been virtually abandoned by their family, I know how much a chance to see their parents even once, or be in touch with an aunt on and off, and know they were loved would have meant to some of them.

Itisbetternow · 04/10/2015 13:25

Your sister might feel reassured that he is now in your life too and when she isn't here in the future you are there for him and to help make any decisions with him.