Have re-registered to talk about my family. This will be long, sorry.

[sadsister4]

Perhaps I should be on the stately homes thread, but I don't know whether my story is worthy of it.

I guess I just need some perspective. Maybe writing it all down will help.

My family make me very sad. I'll try to put down why as briefly as possible. I just want to know if it's me or them. Part of me wants to be NC, but on the other hand I don't know if it's the right thing to do.

I'm the youngest by ten years.
My mum went out to work in the evenings when I was 3 months old, leaving me in the care of my siblings.
My eldest sister (by 15 years) was like my mum. She got married when I was five and moved away. I think this traumatised me.
My second sister took over the babysitting and resented it. I was bullied by her and was terrified of her. Never physical - just ranted and raved and made my life miserable.
My brother (14 years older) physically bullied me, in a 'play fighting' way, e.g. tickled me until I cried, etc.
My parents were fairly neglectful. I was riddled with threadworm for years, they went out every Saturday night leaving me home alone, etc.

So, all my life I've tried to please my family. Babysitting without taking payment, when a penniless student using my grant to buy gifts for siblings, nieces and nephews, etc, even though I never received a phone call from them while at uni. I think I was pretty much out of sight, out of mind.

My brother and sister in law have said some pretty foul things to me over the years, my eldest sister has constantly made fun of me (thinks I'm slapdash in the home, etc). I have been very close to the younger of my two sisters, but currently she is very distant and hasn't actually rung me since July. I used to ring her all the time, but it started to feel one sided, so I eased off. Result is that I barely hear from any of them.

Nobody rings me, ever. If I don't phone them, I don't speak to them.

I get the occasional text from my sisters.

I think what has brought this to a head is the text I got off my sister the other day saying that she, my sister and my SIL had been discussing Christmas and decided that siblings wouldn't buy for each other any more, just buy for the little ones (great nieces and nephews) and any nieces and nephews that don't have children yet.

I don't know why but this has made me very sad.

Sorry for the ramble.

Woh, very similar story to you, even down to Christmas presents (though with a different twist) - i wasnt asked if it was OK, more like an edict from on high.

I am nc with my revolting family - no more abuse, no more neglect, no more betrayal. Yes you are the scapegoat, as am I (I'd like to say 'was' but there is no way they will ever let it go and, in my absence, it pumps along as strong as ever). I see my ancient mum but even that is fraught (largely bcs my thug of a father is still alive and she is dependent on him) but I can't cut her off. For all her faults she does love me - unlike the others.

It's not you, it's them.

Sorry, took me ages to type that bcs got called away.

Ime it took a long time to fully disengage - like you I held out for love and acceptance (they must love me, surely? Underneath all that horribleness..?) I also grovelled around, I suppose 'making it up to them'. But making up for what? For being a vile person (according to them: endless, endless bullying and public humiliations; events eg weddings, parties were where they indulged all that - and if I said anything I was rounded on for 'spilling the day')? But I am not a child person, so how does that fit? I'm also not useless, selfish, lazy. I have also worked all my life and they haven't - doesn't stop them pontificating about how people should 'Get a job!'. They can't as the irony.

I've had a lot of therapy bcs I was dead by a thousand cuts - bullying and victimisation from primary family does immense damage. So I'd recommend therapy to reset your life compass. On my travels I have not found much about being the scapegoat - support groups, books etc. I don't know why that is.

Now they are out of my life for good I can't tell you the joy of never being subjected to them ever again. It's like being born again. But it took me a while to get there.

Spoiling the day; I am not a vile person

Thanks for your post, springydaffs and well done on how far you've come.

Believe it or not I had years and years of therapy - but it's taken until now for me to see how things really are.

You're right about the damage that's been done. I'm really pretty fucked up by it all. No boundaries, allow myself to be taken advantage of, crashingly low self esteem, trust issues, etc etc.

If I could have one wish, I'd have been born to a completely different family. People underestimate the value of that. It must be an absolute blessing to feel loved, accepted and important by your family.

I know! I hear and see things - a dad in a park with his lo, fully engaged.. that is so foreign to me, I can't even imagine it (I've tried). Or stuff about sisters, words in and on cards - completely alien, unimaginable.

Back to therapy then, armed with this new revelation. It takes an age to see it and you have. Bravo my dear.

I have a friend who casually mentioned recently she was meeting her dad for supper in a restaurant - just her and him. Booked and planned. I looked at her like she was a priceless gem in a museum, trying to hide my alarm. The entire premise is UTTERLY FOREIGN to me.

Yeah, what would life have been like if I'd been born into a different family..

I've tried really hard to be a good, supportive sister and aunt. I mean, over and above.

You did; they didn't. Betcha they're not torn up inside about how shit they've been as siblings to you. They've treated you like crap your whole life and you're trying to compensate them for the fact of your actual existence. Your parents have a great deal to answer for.

Although you can't have your wish to be born into a different family, you have created a different one for yourself - you are loved by, accepted by and important to your children. I know that's not the same thing in that they will be going off into the world and doing their own thing in a few years' time. But you have created another, better family. Beyond that look to your friends and to your accomplishments - you have built a better life than the one that was handed to you.

I think in your shoes I would go NC like springy has. These people add no value to your life.

Tribpot thank you. You are absolutely right - I was just thinking that earlier. There is no way that things can ever get better between me and my siblings, because we simply don't have the foundations to build on.

I feel that if I go NC, it'll just confirm the low opinion they already seem to have of me, so I have nothing to lose by it, really.

It makes me very sad, though.

I do have great DCs, and a wonderful new partner who accepts me and loves me for who I am - it's the first time I've experienced such a thing and it takes a lot of getting used to. What it has done, though, is throw my relationship with my family into sharp relief.

I feel like I'm grieving today. It's weird.

And thank you, springy for your kind words.

It's so odd that strangers on the internet have shown me far more support and friendship over the years than my own family.

I think grieving is right, and actually that is probably showing that you are moving forward.

You need to get through the denial and the bargaining and the sadness and the anger. It hurts, but its happening which means that something is changing.

You won't necessarily end up with no contact, but you'll be investing your energy elsewhere and you'll have strategies for dealing with it when it hurts.

I've had a rough time with my family recently and one thing I learned was that when I had a really sad day (just allowed myself to feel the emotion) I often felt a lot better afterwards.

I also appreciate what you are saying about having made so much effort and I can relate to that, but you know you did your best and that counts for a lot.

BTW - regarding the care of your parents, if there are any more hints about that pick up on it and ask them to spell out what they are saying.

The thing is, regarding my parents, there is only so much I can do. I work full time. I will go and see them at weekends, but not every weekend because my DC are half the time with their dad, so I want to give them some time at home.

So I feel guilty about that.

I feel I've been taken for granted. Like I've had to earn their love and attention. I just can't do it any more.

This resonated with me. I too was brought up and treated as an 'outsider' in my own blood family, bullied, assaulted, meant to be 'seen' not heard. I was told by my older toxic, narcissistic sister that everyone was praying for a boy when i was born - so it made me feel like i was a constant focus of disappointment for my parents. Somewhere along the line i subconsciously accepted this and hence allowed them to treat me badly - all the while thinking it was MY fault and maybe if i did more for them or made more of a fuss over them they would see me for the real me and love and accept me. This dynamic carried on for years after i'd moved out and was completely independent. I was made to feel guilty for not spending enough time with them/visting, yet each time i did go over i would end up sitting on the sofa with everyone ignoring me.

I finally twigged that they didn't really like me or accept me, they were constantly projecting their issues on to me and the only reason they were staying in 'contact' with me was so they could pull off the facade of 'family'. All my other siblings were given support - esp financially - but not me. They wouldn't visit my home even though it was only a 5 minute drive away - they ignored every aspect of my life and were only interested in talking to me when they wanted me for something - like turning up at family events and helping them play 'happy families' in front of everyone.

They will not change. Only you can change how they affect you. I finally stopped it. Stopped making all the effort, stopped going around unless it was what i wanted to do, stopped the weekly phone call i was expected to make - always a few minutes of contrived 'how are you/how's the weather'. I never actually confronted them over their behavior but i just started doing my own thing, and each time they tried to accuse me of something i just reminded them i only lived 5 minutes away and if they couldn't be arsed to treat me like THEY wanted to be treated then they had no right to make demands.

Nowadays - a decade later - i am closer and have a better relationship with the siblings who made the effort to visit me and get to know me, my older sis i am nc with as she is just too toxic to have in my life. They all put up with her toxicity, won't confront her and always side with her if it comes down to it. So i make sure that all my interactions with them are on my terms only, now they can no longer walk all over me or abuse me.

Life is so much better and happier since i strengthened my boundaries and accepted that they don't view me the way they view each other. I don't need their love or acceptance.

It's hard and painful but well worth it all to finally strengthen my boundaries, love myself enough to walk away from negativity and concentrate on creating and living a happy life.

Don't feel guilty about your parents. Are they asking to see you more? Or is it your siblings dropping hints? It sounds like you are doing a bit more than really feels right for you, so unless they are being neglected and never see anyone you shouldn't feel guilty about seeing them a bit less. Lots of people don't see their parents for months at a time. Maybe when you get some leave you can arrange to do something special, say once every three months, something you will enjoy.

Don'tMindMe yet each time i did go over i would end up sitting on the sofa with everyone ignoring me - oh yes - that happened to me as well. I used to wonder why they had asked me. Then I made alternative arrangements for things like Christmas and all hell broke loose. I realised that it was very important for them to be seen to be looking after me, but were not interested in whether it was what I wanted or needed at the time.

Doesn't sound like you get much from the relationships, I don't know how you redefine what to expect. Your children have a good relationship with their grandees, sounds like you don't want to lose that. Please stop seeking their approval, sounds like you need to be more selfish.

FWIW, my dad has some of the same things in his family.. but they mean different things (?)

Dad has close loving relationships with his 5 siblings & they stop buying Xmas gifts for each other... decades ago. By the time my dad was 30 & youngest sibling was 9. They have a family draw system (just buy one gift for one other adult). One of my aunts does most 90% of care for my elderly grandmother, I can't imagine resentment attached to this.

They can bicker, omg, some rageing rows, too.

Everyone knows who was "an accident" in the many generations of my dad's side of the family (like me & my brothers) & Nobody gives a toss. Being 'an accident' means nothing.

I could have wrote your post. But it was my granny who looked after me.

I've gone no contact with my siblings. I speak to my mum daily but my dad can see no wrong in his other children and regularly has a go at me for stupid things! My mum is their step mum, but brought them up. It's peaceful being an only child. I keep contact with 3 of my nieces who have been there for me and not slagged me off!

DH has agreed with my decisions. He pointed out my wedding was about my dad's daughter coming home and not us!

I was told by my older toxic, narcissistic sister that everyone was praying for a boy when i was born

Was that true, though? I'm slowly beginning to realise that a lot of what was told me by toxic siblings simply wasnt true - but all the better to grind me down and make me ashamed for existing.

The last family do I had at my house I ran around like a slave - not one person offered any help and, when I finally sat down to eat, noone spoke to me. Not one. Not one word was spoken to me the entire event. It was as if I wasnt there - oh apart from being the skivvy.

As I surveyed them, they looked like the most dazzling, sparkling family - really attractive. I used to long to be in with them, cut to the quick if I heard of an event I hadn't been invited to. But no more. When i catch wind of their events i am flooded with relief I no longer have to endure those agonising events. Joy joy joy to the world!

The praying for a boy was true,in the asian culture i was born into they prize boys over girls always.

However, i do believe she only told me that to " to grind me down and make me ashamed for existing" - that sums her up perfectly. It never occurred to me to throw that back in her face - considering she was the first born , but now i know she was only projecting her own insecurities and issues on to me.

I'm not sure being 'an accident' means nothing in every case, lijkk.

I was made to feel like an afterthought my whole life. To this day the only photograph my parents have in their bedroom is one of the whole family - before I was born.

There have been quite a few incidences like this - it's not as if I was a happy accident, I don't think.

I was a fucking shock

I also come from a bullying, mocking family and have tried over and over for too long to be accepted and liked by them all. I was also born unwanted - long story. I was the family scapegoat and they would never let up....until I walked away, far, far too late. But at least I got there in the end.

I was always trying to do the right thing, appease everyone, and yet me and my DC's were always left out at family get togethers. We would watch them laughing and/or be left in another room often. Always me visiting them, they didn't visit me or show any interest.

It escalated when my Gran, who was a lovely woman and looked after me as a child [I owe my sanity to her], died. She controlled everyone to a certain extent before then

It escalated big time when my mother died [I never gave up on her as I knew deep down she felt awful about everything]...Aunt, cousins, second cousins, half siblings [taking my neice and nephew with them], all shunned me more than ever and were always trying to talk down to me when they did see me.

I snapped, and walked away years ago now. I'm free. I refuse to see them, they are not happy. I care less, am just amused. They will have to find someone else to take their bitterness and jealousy out on. They have dished out such a lot of cruelty. It doesn't help I know, but know others know how you feel and have endured so much too....but there is peace and dignity in walking away from the abuse. I wish you well if you do, it's very hard but worth it.

I think they probably found it difficult being "dumped" with a baby sister to look after as teenagers. Not your fault of course, but not theirs either.

Now you're all adults (old enough to have adult children yourself is that right?) I guess there are unwritten points of view and feelings that have become so ingrained in people's minds it's hard to challenge them. Maybe worth asking to see them and asking if they want to improve your relationships? Sadly is possible they don't - you have spent a life time looking up to them and seeking approval in a oarent-tyoe relationship. It's possible they're more important to you that you are to them

I find reading all of these posts so incredibly sad, my heartfelt sympathy to all of you.

You all sound so strong, indepedent and essentially good, the kind of people I would gravitate towards and want to be friends with. You have made a success of your lives without their help and in spite of the many hinderances they have placed on you, you are worth far more than the whole lot of them put together.

Well done, regrets - you are clearly very strong.

nephrofox - I think you might have hit the nail on the head with your last sentence.

We follow a family script when we all get together. I try to please everyone, make everyone laugh, put myself down etc.
My brother picks on someone until they cry. Sometimes me.
My sister takes the piss.
My other sister rises to the bait and a fight ensues.

That's the thing - all the relationships are a mess. It's like a big spiderweb.
But it's a new thing that I'm getting ignored. Well, not new - it's like the past happening again.

Thing is, they all got on with their adult lives and left me at home - I was twelve when my last sibling left home. Now, I think, they've all reached the stage of having adult kids and grandchildren, so they're off doing their own thing again. Which I guess is understandable, and fine.

Except...for years, I was the one holding expensive family parties, paying for concert tickets and limo rides, sending flowers to nieces and nephews when they passed exams, talking to my nephew for hours at a time when he was going through problems. I bent over backwards to try and please them and got nothing in return. They could be very nasty.

This thread is helping me see that I shouldn't have done that. It was pointless. I was trying to make them approve of me. What I should have been doing was working on my self esteem so that I didn't feel I needed their approval.

It's getting clearer...thank you all.

I wouldn't put myself down for the nice things you did. You decided to do them because that is who you are. Don't let your behaviour be determined by the stuff they do. Be true to yourself. I am at the top of a very big family. My youngest dsis is 15 years younger than me. We are great friends today. Your parents are responsible for creating that dynamic in your family and your sisters are victims of it too. I think s time comes in our lives where we have to squarely look head on at what kind of parenting we got and accept it painful and all as that is. Otherwise we are wasting valuable years wishing for something that will never happen. Let go the dream of this ever changing. Face the reality of very bad parenting. That does call for grieving and then moving on. That thing about Christmas presents is not a bad thing. We did that years ago but we are very close so it was no issue. It has triggered something in you because of the pain already there. I wouldn't bother going no contact as that is nearly giving it more power than it deserves. Whether it was the times then maybe poverty whatever your parents created this. Your siblings haven't tried to break free but good for you for becoming your own person and continue to do that. Love your nieces and nephews whether they do or not.Don't let them dictate. Break the cycle. They are horrible. You be yourself. But let go the fantasy. I'm sorry it's not going to happen.

Thank you june. I think I've realised that.

My plan is to not bother phoning or pursuing contact in any way with my siblings.
To do as much as I can for my parents but not to the detriment of my own family.
To be polite to my siblings when I come across them at my parents' house.

I'm still not sure what to do about family get togethers. I would like to say I'll never attend one again, but I'm not sure I'm strong enough.

And I don't know what to do about sibling birthday presents either.

I wish I could just disappear from their lives, to be honest. I will when my parents die.

Re family get-togethers - if there is anyone you want to see (neices, nephews), then go, and when you've talked to everyone you want to talk to just leave.