Help! Again,again!

[RitaOra2]

I have been living in an unhappy relationship for a while now, and was going to give it a year, but I am finding this increasingly difficult. I have just tried to speak to my H, he said he had no time to talk, but I told him anyway, that I was unhappy and did not want to be with him. He said that he thought we were trying to work things out and get back together via the counselling. However, we only had one appointment and have been on a waiting list ever since. In the one apt we attended, he basically slagged me off for an hour in quite an arrogant fashion, however the counsellor seemed quite keen on him, so maybe I just see it through thwarted eyes. He seems to be in to rubbishing me in front of the kids more than anything else at the moment. I was just taking my daughter to bed and she refused to clean her teeth, kept running away, hiding, shouting at me so I was very stern with her and said that if she did not clean her teeth by the time I had counted to 3 then I would cancel her weekend trip out. I repeated this a few times. So she runs to him and he says "Don't worry, let me take you to bed you poor thing", then says to me in front of her "Look at you, threatening a little girl like that".

So when I talk to him and say I am not happy and I don't want to sort thing out and be with him again, he is full of how awful I am to him and the poor children. I don't understand, if I am so awful and so slovenly, fat, stinky, ugly, a liar, a pig and a bully to him and the kids as well and an abuser in every sense, then WHY DOES HE WANT TO STAY WITH ME??

See what the solicitor says on Monday - especially about the funds invested in the house. (I do hope that you've found a real terrier of one.) In the interim, have you any other financial matters that need to be cleaned up? I saw you had a joint back account but do you have your own bank account and cc etc? Who gets any funds for the children for example?

*financial or practical matters.....

Sorry.

Should I listen to the niggling thought in the back of my mind that is telling me I am doing the wrong thing and that I should stay???

To be clear, we're still talking about the guy who went to punch your daughter and stopped himself at the last minute? Why is this even a discussion?

Your husband will try to get the kids on his side and get custody of them. Be prepared.

Rita

Re-read your posts. As an example:

...I think my line was crossed a long time ago...it was when he pulled a fist at my daughter. Also, him telling them that mummy is an abuser, a liar and a pig, and when I ask him not to, saying that the children need to know. That is my line. I know its been crossed...

Are you really prepared to put yourself and the kids through umpty more years of this? It's not going to get better and could become markedly worse.

Ah, well then, I guess the best you can do is be honest and then try to keep them (and yourself) away from him as much as possible. But do wait until you've spoken to the solicitor on Monday if you can. I know there are times a spouse can be made to leave the family home, but I'm sure you'd have to have some type of 'paper trail' of abusive behaviour. Talk frankly to the solicitor about what has been going on, including his countermanding your interactions to the children in such a nasty way. I'd suggest starting to keep a diary with dates and times of disparaging things he says, especially to the children, and any overt acts of abuse (including raising fists, threats, screaming) should also be logged with the police. The courts take a dim view of parents who try to turn the children against the other parent. Be sure you detail the additional funds you invested in the house and ask what paperwork might help you in getting a larger share of the house (if possible).

Once you've told them will it be possible to move yourself into a separate bedroom? To begin to 'live separately in the same house' as it were?

Unfortunately, if you're not going to be able to leave right away, you need to be prepared for things to get a lot uglier. That's why it's so important to talk to the solicitor about either getting him out or if there's some type of non-disparagement order you can get. I've mentioned it before on other threads but not sure if there is such a thing in the UK (there is in the US).

You may also want to let their schools (if they attend) know what's going on and if things get really nasty, consider counseling. You don't have to deal with this all on your own.

Hi. I have managed to stick by my words that 'I am not happy and I want to separate'. I think he finally believes me because for the first time ever he has begun to back down. He has text me saying that he does not want to split up and that he is sorry for hurting me, he will change, we can talk etc. Basically everything that I wanted to hear before. I have continued to tell him that I don't want to be with him anymore. I told the children in the best way I could because I knew he would not tell them considerately and with me. I just said that when his cousin leaves, he will be moving back in to the spare room because we are not going to sort things out and will make arrangements to separate. I said that we don't make one another happy, only sad, we love them etc. He spoke to my youngest last night and told her that he didn't want to leave, he wanted to stay with his family but I am telling him he has to go (which I suppose is true). He spoke to my eldest next and asked her to pass on a message "Daddy finds it hard to speak to, he knows you don't like him anymore but he really loves you and wants to stay here in his house with his family". I don't think this is fair on the kids?? I asked him to move in to my Aunts flat for the next 6 weeks, because she's away, as a trial separation. He refused. I asked him to go the the mediation appointment which I set up months ago. He refused. He said that he does not want to split up and that we can talk, he can change and that I am not in my right mind. My mum reckons I should give him the opportunity to talk and tell me what he's gonna change. I am wondering if this will just weaken me. Or am I being obstinate? Should I give it a try? What do you think??

Your mum has stuck with an abusive spouse for many years - for her own reasons no doubt, including coming from an earlier generation (probably mine) when "sticking with it" is just what you did. She's not really in the best place to be giving you advice as she is invested in not rocking the boat. This is your life, not hers.

Really, what he tells you is going to change is irrelevant, because it won't (for more than about five minutes). Spend more time over the decision if you feel you should (not if anyone else, including your mum and husband, say you should), and with the end of your training in sight I can see how you may want to put off any drastic changes a bit longer, but I should be extremely surprised if the promises and pleas led to long-term change for the better. You don't really believe they will in your heart of hearts, do you? If he actually cared how you felt he wouldn't be behaving like that in the first place. It's only because you have reached the end of your tether that he's suddenly offering to treat you as though you were a real human being at last. As soon as you're back in the box it will start up again.

And... using the children to pass messages to you is pretty low, don't you think?

If he really wanted to show you that he was serious about changing and wanted to prove to you that he cared about you he'd do as you asked and move to the flat. What he's communicating is that it's still all about him and what he wants. By refusing to give you the space you need he's bullying you and showing you that your opinions and feelings mean nothing to him.

And using the children to plead his case? Telling them how much he loves you & that he doesn't want you to break up the family? Getting them involved in things that they shouldn't have to deal with? That's despicable!

It's all up to you as to whether or not you want to try to save the marriage. That decision is totally yours and there is no rule that says you must try. And remember, you've already tried, every time things have gotten bad and you've stayed and tried on your own to make them better. Just because he's saying he now wants to try doesn't mean that you have to try yet again. It's his problem, not yours, if he's run out of chances with you.

I will say that my own DH and I went to counseling over his anger and EA during one particularly bad time in our marriage. I had left with the children and gone to my mother's after one particularly bad fight and the next day confronted him with our bags packed and told him we were leaving him unless he agreed to counseling. It worked for us. But he, in his heart of hearts, knew that his behaviour was unacceptable and wanted to change. He admitted fault and worked very hard with our counselor. Again he admitted fault, wanted to change, and saw a counselor. Your DH cannot change until he admits his behaviour is dead wrong and agrees to counseling. These behaviours are too deeply ingrained to change without professional help.

Don't listen to your mother. That's like listening to an alcoholic tell you that 'one drink is ok'.

...He spoke to my youngest last night and told her that he didn't want to leave, he wanted to stay with his family but I am telling him he has to go (which I suppose is true). He spoke to my eldest next and asked her to pass on a message "Daddy finds it hard to speak to, he knows you don't like him anymore but he really loves you and wants to stay here in his house with his family"....

He's wangling you and the situation but trying to use the kids to do it!

And saying you're 'Not in your right mind?'

Oh Boy. Next he'll be trying to get you into bed with him to see if some 'good sex' will 'sort you out'. He won't change.

Is the solicitor still on for tomorrow?

Bit late to the party but I just wanted to add this...

You already know how tough teacher training is. You will need support to get through your nqt year and beyond. If you don't have support, then you meed headspace. You will noy be able to do it with this man in tow.

Get rid of hin and enjoy your future!

Thank you for the advice everyone...it's really appreciated. So far, I am standing firm. I am going to see the solicitor in the morning for a free 30 mins. If you have any advice re. what I should say / ask her please let me know. Thanks x

Come back on tomorrow and let us know how it went. You might feel just a little emotionally frail once the meeting is over but there should always be people here to talk to.

Good luck.

Your mother stayed with an abuser

You have stayed with an abuser

Your kids are witnessing and being used in the abuse of their mother

See a pattern here ?

And yes, you are putting your own needs and those of an abuser above those of your children if you stay

I'm no expert, but

1 What can I expect as reasonable support and maintenance for self and children? (be prepared to provide his income, your income, any benefits either of you receive)

2 What are my financial rights regarding our home? (be prepared to provide mortgage balance, payment and the amount of your contribution to the downpayment)

3 How are financial assets divided and what determines percentages?

4 How do I prove/document his abusive behaviour and what is needed to get a 'no contact' or 'non-residence' order?

The solicitor may not be able to give you concrete figures for support and asset division but hopefully can at least give you a 'guideline' or percentage based on the information you provide and his/her knowledge of the courts. They should also be able to point you towards resources as far as getting him out of the house.

As an afterthought; if he won't go to the flat you may also want to talk to a solicitor about the advisability of you and the children decamping to it. There can be 'issues' about leaving the marital home though and there would probably be no guarantee that he would be forced to leave it before the 6 weeks were up and you don't want to be seen (by him) of 'crawling back' when your auntie gets home.

I'm sure others will have suggestions.

I have seen the solicitor. Even when I speak about his behaviour and am told that it's abusive, I still get the feeling that I am exaggerating and only giving my side of the story and that its all partly my fault, but I don't really believe this is so. I think I need to stop thinking about whether he is abusive or not and concentrate on 'do I want to be with him'. However, this then feels like a selfish move on my part...so cant win really!

Anyway, the solicitor is going to send him a letter giving him 2 weeks to move out, suggesting my Aunties flat for now, and also telling him to make a mediation appointment.

There is a good chance that he will ignore the letter, however I thought it worth a shot. She is quite sure that I will get custody of the children (phew) and thinks it possible that I could stay in the house, maybe selling in a year and getting higher equity to enable me to try to buy elsewhere. Or maybe I can stay here until the kids are 18, then sell, then split equity (I could try to raise some money now to give him a start).
I feel shocked and still so unsure but I suppose if the decision is a wrong one then I can rectify that in the future. I just need him to leave me alone for now so I can get on with life for a bit.
Thank you for your support on here. Sometimes I just post to get it out of my head and I don't really know what anyone can reply! However, you don't only need to post if you support me, and if you think otherwise then please do say! x

Rita, that all sounds really doable

Now you have the information you need (from a reliable source, not the crap he feeds you) to really think about your options

Contact WA and talk to them about the abuse. You've been downplaying it for so long that it is really hard to now acknowledge it. Been there, done that! I accused a dear friend of lying about a particular incident in my first marriage only to have it surface as a suppressed memory later when I was in therapy. We push these things down in order to be able to survive in the life we are living with the abuser. After years of doing that, we mistrust our own instincts when we try to deal with them.

The decision isn't a wrong one. You deserve a life of peace and respect. Your children deserve the same.

Hope you got some sleep last night, Rita.

I did not send the letter in the end. We went out on Friday to 'talk', but I had too much to drink on an empty stomach, and he said I was talking to him in a nasty tone, so he left me in the restaurant and went home. He hasn't shown any signs of being sorry and wanting to change like he said in the text. Things are just the same. I don't know what to do anymore. I've run out of energy and need to focus on my course. I don't know if its abusive behaviour or whether I just don't like him anymore and he is angry about that. Even though all I wanted for ages is to be free of him and on my own, now I feel incredibly lonely. I feel like I want to meet someone else, someone nice who I can talk to and have fun with. But I can't because I am stuck in this life with him, and I don't think that he will ever go....unless I make him...and I just don't feel strong enough. Sorry.

Don't be sorry - it's very difficult to get out of your sort of situation so no-one here is going to have a go at you.

Do you think you've got the energy to call Womens' Aid? I think their number is 0808 2000 247 but I'm sure someone else can give you the right one if I've got it wrong.

And don't worry if you think you're not making much sense when you phone them first off - I'm sure they're used to that.

Do you feel you were nasty or was he just looking for an excuse to end a discussion that was telling him things he didn't want to hear? I do think that alcohol when you're having a 'talk' is not a good idea, but that's water under the bridge now.

Yes, you need to focus on your course. And to realize that you are NOT at fault, but that for all intents and purposes, your marriage is beyond saving. And that you will never meet 'Mr Right' whilst you are married to 'Mr Wrong'. It is, of course, too soon to think that far into the future. Right now you need to concentrate on getting free of your marriage to give you a peaceful life within yourself, not to jump into another relationship. You need time to heal and catch your breath.

Yes, in the breakup of any relationship there will be a period of loneliness. The things/person our life was intwined with will no longer be there to take up our time, which will create periods of 'aloneness'. But you'll be surprise at just how much space 'peace' can take up. You'll learn to appreciate a quiet, empty house (empty of him). That you'll be able to sit in silence or quietly with your children, not on tenterhooks waiting for a nasty comment or a veiled threat.

Do call WA. They will be a valuable source of help and support.

Thank you for your replies. I haven't been on here for a while. I don't think he should have walked out on me because I wasn't being awful...but he says I was suddenly very drunk and said in a nasty tone: "I have told you already what I want' and 'The children are the most important thing".

I keep telling him that I think we should split but he does nothing about it, he text me and said he was sorry for hurting me (which was a first) and that he wants to talk. But there has been nothing more to show this.

His cousin has left now and he is back in the spare room which is good. There is not a particularly pleasant atmosphere though and we are not working as a team at all. He is still quick to snipe at me and I am not helping things by standing up to him. I feel very lonely and sad. I am concerned that my children are feeling it too. They are both very dissatisfied with life, school etc. at the moment, but maybe that is a coincidence.

DO YOU THINK I SHOULD JUST PUT THIS HOUSE ON THE MARKET? It would provide me with enough money to get a start without him, even if it is renting. It would give him enough to find a flat too. If I try to keep this house then we are both going to find money difficult.
I have developed strong feelings for someone else, I know him well from years ago, he wants to meet me. I am worried that my feelings for him are a reaction to my emotional loneliness, however, I also think that they could be 100% real and that I should not let him go. Perhaps I am just adding to the complications? Or perhaps he will be my knight in shining armour!! I doubt he will be prepared to take me on anyway. Will meeting him count as cheating?
I will try to call WA, I have emailed them before. I am not very good at talking without crying, hence why I prefer to write. xx