EA, can they ever really change?

[Imflabulous]

As a above really, my Dh has been emotionally abusive among other things and is currently moved out. It has been over many years things have come to a head and I have given "one more chance" more times than I can count. I have agreed to possibly give it another go if I can see evidence of change. The trouble is I am scared he doesn't change or makes a good act of changing and I am back to square one.

Can they change? Or am I flogging a dead horse?

Any help or advice appreciated.

I hit the nail on the head because I have been there, and it is not really a situation I would wish on anyone

In my case, it was a case of metaphorically donning my hard hat and building up the barricades. Only contact by email, which I used a dedicated address for and gave him times I would check this and respond. It took legal help and the threat of police to bring him to the negotiating table - and I think it was maybe 18 months before things got more manageable.

If love really means control, then that is not love. You have challenged and indeed, broken, his control and he will try every means possible to restore the status quo. The only thing you can do is change how you react and say no, I do not accept this.

When he respects that no, that is your first sign of change; there are still all the other behaviours to stop. But even then, you need a lot of time to recover and build up your self-esteem and healthy boundaries. And then, only then, the question is about whether you want anything more with this man.

I am sure about it being hard-wired or about the impossibility of change - but that is kind of irrelevant anyway, until he respects what you are asking for!!

In short, he can show you he has changed by leaving you alone and changing in his own space!

(From my own experience, after the hell of enforcing the separation, yes, I think he did go and ask himself searching questions, seek counselling, and think - but he wouldn't have done that had he not been forced to, it would have been business as usual. We are still separated, but can have a laugh together and things are much better - but I am not sure how we would have got there without me saying I would not accept what we had before, and enforcing it)

I read this last night and felt compelled to come back to post.

I'm recently out of a marriage like this. After many many years, I'd finally had enough and asked for a divorce. He said he'd change, we went to counselling and he was full of apologies and seemed genuinely different. I was so happy but it didn't last. How could it when it was so far from how he'd behaved for years?

They can tell you anything they think will get them what they want. Actually living it is a whole other story.

Please don't consider going back, his current behaviour is telling you the truth. Whether you need pressure to tell him that you love him, or if he needs pressure to be a decent guy the point is the same- it's not real! You're better off without him.

Thank you so much for your replies, its now hitting home what I have to do, I just need a couple of days to get my head around it all.

Romiiroo, again you are right if we were not forced into this situation we would prob have made up and been on our way to another trigger and more false promises.

Marriednotdead, what you say with regard to counciling etc is right as he has been before years ago (when he threatened suicide) and been on anti d's but stopped taking them and after a while it all reverted back to business as usual....

I guess I need to get my head around how my life will now be. I will keep you posted and thanks again for the advise and sharing your experiences its all helping me keep focused when I feel a wobble...

I do miss the good times with XH sometimes (although they'd be over now anyway as the DC have grown up). It makes me angry, because we could have a good time together and he did know how to make me happy but always preferred to drag us down. While I was still trying to keep things together I emailed this to a friend: "We've been through hell together and out the other side, then here he is re-creating hell as if he'd quite enjoyed the experience".

I think men such as this do not actually know a healthy way of relating to a partner. They can't see dealings between people as anything other than a contest. If you win, they lose. You aren't allowed to be happy unless they personally have made you happy, and if you get too happy you have to be brought down again in case you forget you need them. Obviously (to them) this threat of leaving is your power play and they will give a little slack before hauling in again, like working a fish on a line, until you're back flopping and gasping on the bank. Being a bully isn't currently effective so he's working on your sympathy, happy memories etc (although he still can't quite give up the bullying even now). Exactly as Hissy said upthread: it's always the same but the techniques shift. One button wears out so they press another. Pressing buttons is all they know how to do.

Beautifully put, Annie!

Thank you Annie.

its funny because I was staring to be sucked in to the nicey nicey side....but I can now see its a just a ploy as I know he will flip to mr nasty if I say something he is not happy with. I actually got accused yesterday of leaving a certain song (when the love runs out) on in car when he uses it to make a point! ......and he says he is not making digs! Its laughable.

Of course people can change, but it is very, very, very hard.

They have to unlearn and relearn relational patterns and that takes years and years of intensive therapy. It also means that they have to cut contact with their family of origin, where these patterns come from, and they have to ditch all their "friends", who will have similar ways of relating too.

It is possible, but unimaginably rare.

The very first thing they have to do, is accept that they have deep seated issues. Most of them never even get that far. They can't. Their identity depends on being right, and winning the point.

I know someone who is trying very hard to change, and takes on board the fact that he has serious issues from a very traumatic childhood. He also accepts that his behaviour is a safeguarding issue for his own children. That progress has taken five years and more.

How long have you got?

I'm dithering. Im afraid to take the plunge and say the words. Im afraid of being alone and the implications of a split on my children. Why cant I just say the words?

Do not go back to him.

You've already given this man more than enough chances already and he will never be the person you so want him to be. Its too hardwired within him and I guess either one or even both his parents are abusive as well.

You and he should be apart given his emotional abuse of you. Womens Aid can and will help you further. 0808 2000 247.

You were alone in your marriage with him. As for the implications of a split on your children they will thank you in the longer term for teaching them that the only acceptable level of abuse within a relationship is NONE.

What do you want to teach your children about relationships here?.
You really do not want to teach them that an emotionally abusive and controlling marriage as yours is is their norm for them to emulate as adults as well.

Who cares if he does by some miracle change his ways? He treated you like crap. What's the point of saving a relationship with someone who ever thought that was ok? Doesn't matter if he had a crap childhood, tough day at work, you burned the dinner or in some way irritated him. He shouldn't have ever thought it right or possible to treat you like shit. People aren't perfect, but if you love someone you do your best to treat them kindly/well. He doesn't love you. He likes the convenience and comfort of being loved and having a home/family.

I like what annie says

even though they cant be a cxxt lets say 70% of the time (and that's more than enough) you do hold onto the 30% of the nice times and yearn for them and miss them. As it feels so normal and I guess we all want that don't we?

FWIW OP, pat yourself on the back for getting rid and stay strong. From what I read he wont change.

lots and lots of

I sometimes wish that my DP would fucking twat me one, or cheat on me. Then in society's eyes I would have a cast iron excuse top leave. EA doesn't really cut it out there in the real world

I lived in 3 houses with my XH. He punched a hole in the wall of each one. He told me how lucky I was as, 'some men hit women and I don't'. He'd promise to change. I can't count how many times, the. The sulks and huffs and me walking on eggshells would all build up again. I left him.

10 years on, he texts to speak to the DCs. He still tries to control me, it just makes me laugh now. He tried to mess with the DCs head and uses emotional blackmail on them. They hate him.

I don't believe men like that do change and if they can I don't want to hang around to find out.

Well, I done it.
After a long week of weighing up pros and cons, its finished.
Not really sure how I feel, apart from like a weight has been lifted and I feel a bit sick.

He did not take it well.

Well done OP.

He was never going to take it well - but you've done it. It may not feel like a 'win', but you have actually got one. Just think, if he took it 'well', you might think that he'd changed. The fact that he took the news in his usual selfish-arse way, reassures you that you've definitely made the right decision.

Tough to do, but you are doing well.

Thank you. Keep re reading posts and his texts to re affirm my decision.

Feeling very vulnerable iyswim at the moment.

Yes, of course. You'll get wobbles and worries for a while yet, but it is the right thing to do and you will feel better about it, gradually, as time goes on. Very soon you should start noticing how peaceful things are without His Lordship ranting centre stage. There's a lot to do now, sorting things out, making it stick; the upside is that keeping busy will help.

OP, my father was since the day I was born until the day he died (about 32 years)
My husband about 7 years and various others in my life for different lengths of time.
Since I've known any of them. None I can remember have ever changed.
You are flogging a dead horse sorry.
Don't think about the 'good' times, think about all the rest of the time when you were emotionally drained and insecure.
Overall, your kids will not thank you if you chose to go back.
I've never forgiven my mum for staying with my dad all those years he put us through growing up.
Just don't do it.

It's not easy calling time on a relationship. We all stay too long in bad relationships, because....hope dies last.....because...we are scared of facing the future alone, emotionally, physically and financially....because...we don't want to feel a failure....because we aren't confident enough to believe we can do it....because we don't think we are worth more than what we are getting.

People can talk to you til they are blue in the face, only you can make the decision, if, and when you are ready to.

Well done

When you say he did not take it well ? What happened ? Maybe it's too painful

Sending you

Brave woman x

Thank you. Not feeling very brave!
By not taking it well, I mean aggressive attitude, followed by 2 days of angry vindictive texts in between nice ones? Still not sure its sank in for him as he is now asking if there is even a slim chance, I have said no in every way possible ....think its going to be a long bumpy road ahead.

Hold on tight OP!!!

I think what marzipan said rings a bell, that little bead of hope of "ah we can make this, we can do this" then they have a blistering row/rage and you think. ahem. maybe not!

I need to call a fucking a SOLICITER!!!!

and yeah hold tight, you might not feel super but you have made a huge step and it must be fucking horrible. do you have DC?

Trust what your instincts are telling you. Sometimes I think of the good times my ex and I had, and I really miss him and wish I could get those times back again. They did exist, after all. But if I think about REALLY getting back into a relationship or if I see him, my heart starts pumping and I become anxious and agitated. Those are my instincts right there, telling me to stay safe. My body almost goes into fight or flight, and it wouldn't do that unless the bad times had been bad enough to condition me that way.

Trust your instincts, that's all I can say. "Why Does He Do That" by Lundy Bancroft is well worth a read.

please don't go back to him.
he'll never, ever change.
they never do.
don't be another statistic. you're far better off without him.

keep all those horrible texts and show them you people you trust. i would imagine their reaction to his behaviour will help you know you are right to get rid of this prick.