What pushes you from liking someone to actively getting them into your life?

[ToGoBoldly]

Hi,

What the thread title says, really.

I'm really struggling with feeling isolated and lonely. I've felt like this all my life, but it's been really intense recently so I have been feeling even more low than I ususally do.

I have a handfull of friends but no one really close, and they are all kind of fairweather friends. They've all kind of retreated away from me into their own lives, which is fine, I accept people grow apart, but it feels like everyone in the world has a network of friends and a partner, and I am being left on my own. I try really hard to get out and meet new people and stuff, but I feel like I am constantly rejected and it is really, really difficult to bear.

I have been doing some work on my feelings around this with my therapist and have been asked to drill down on why I believe I don't form close bonds with people. I can only think that people don't like me enough - they don't dislike me, but they don't like me enough to actively want me in their lives. It's as simple as that. She's tried to suggest I might be familiar with the feeling of rejection so kind of invite it, but I really don't think that's true. I try really hard to go out of my comfort zone with people - I am shy but friendly, I invite people to things, I make the first move, I volunteer myself for things, I am generous, I'm laid back and not pushy... but none of this seems to count. It feels like plenty of people think I am nice enough but they don't want or need me as a close friend. I don't blame other people for this - no one is obliged to be friends with everyone - but I just feel like everyone chooses people to be in their lives, but no one chooses me. And I've really hit a wall in trying to work this out.

This post sounds really needy and whiny, I promise I am not like this when I am trying to make friends or boyfriends! Like I said I am having counselling (for various things) but we've kind of reached an impasse on this one.

I've felt like this forever. I felt it at primary school, at secondary school, at university, at work, and in my love life. The only way I could explain clearly to my counsellor was how I felt it at primary school, so their behaviour is clear, not because they are horrible children but because they don't try to hide their feelings. But you can see more clearly with kids how people naturally gravitate towards those they want to be friends with, and that often is the really pretty girl, or the boy who is really good at football or whatever. I don't think things change a lot as an adult, it's just more subtle. And I don't think anything bad about people who have those who gravitate towards them and want to be their friend, but I just feel really sad because it feels like no one naturally gravitates towards me. It makes me feel really unloved and depressed.

I try to be proactive, no matter how many knockbacks I get I try to carry on with life and try new things, but it's really overwhelming. I asked my counsellor what she thinks I could do differently, but she is either stumped, or wants me to work the answer out myself. But I really can't think of anything beyond "people don't like me enough", which is their prerogative, but really hurtful when it feels like I'm not good enough for anyone I've met in my whole life.

So I guess I'm trying to bash out these thoughts a bit more. Am I just hideously unlucky that I never seem to meet people at the right time for them to want to pursue a friendship or relationship with me? Or what is the magic ingredient that makes people want to move things forward? I feel like there is a locked door and people will smlile and wave at me through a window and think "there's that woman, she's nice", but they won't ever invite me in, if that makes sense.

I am sorry if this sounds quite immature and self indulgent

Springy, we've had remarkably similar experiences (though I don't think I would know 70 people to invite in the first place ...) I see what you're saying and I agree that all the people who I thought were my friends are clearly not, they don't dislike me, they might even quite like me but they just don't value me. I know now that this is not normal way for friends or lovers to treat you, so they are not true friends.

But I then have no one. I have always felt this, but I became hyper-aware of this situation about a year ago. I had a thread on it in fact, where you and some others were pointing out how the people who I thought were my friends were treating me terribly and clearly did not care for me. I knew this was the case and, much as it hurt to accept it, I had to accept it. So I have retreated from those damaging non-friendships over the past year. But it's not like I have had anyone to replace them and I really feel the gaps.

Is it really just a case of me picking the wrong people? Because I don't actively go out and pick people that seem horrible to start with. I don't think I set the bar too high or too low, I am just open-minded about it. I don't think I have some sort of magnet for bad people or people who won't treat me well, or won't like me. Maybe I have just been terribly unlucky. But 31 years of bad luck stops feeling like a game of luck and starts feeling like there is just something about me that means people are not interested in being close.

I don't want to spend my time with people who do not value me and do not treat me well. But then the alternative seems to be to be completely alone. I can try my best to do sports, throw myself into work, do charitable activities, get involved with community stuff, have hobbies, try new challenges... but I am alone. How bleak is that?

I'm open to the inner child stuff, but my inner child is dead. I'm not a child any more. Weevils has it with this line "But I still don't see how comforting an imaginary me from decades ago is going to transform or indeed alter in any way the external facts of my current situation, which are, objectively, unpleasant.". I don't blame myself for what happened to me as a child, I blame the people who abused me and took advantage of me. I don't hate myself for what happened to me as a child. I'm not being overly harsh on myself for what happened to me when I was young - it was out of my hands, I was misled and treated like crap by people who should have known better. I know all that, I am at peace with that. But me knowing that and being at peace with it does not mean that people are interested in me, all it has done is reduce a bit of self-loathing.

Once it was all dragged out of my subconscious to quote myself

This is what therapy is for. Yy it may involve going back to the scene of the crime/s to see what got embedded where, and yes it may involve having compassion on that child. It could be said that childhood trauma freezes that person's development at the age of the trauma - so in that sense that child is not dead.

You only got rid of your friend bcs your head joined the dots - how about your heart? Did it not feel uncomfortable, unloved, unchallenged, not valued? Probably. But you were probably used to it, perhaps thought this was the rough and tumble of normal relating.

Re 'inner child work' (though it was never called that when I did it) and schools embarrassment: I did it with a group on a residential therapy course (life-changing, it turned out). We all did it together and we were all supportive of one another. Perhaps doing it with other people lessened the cringe-factor?

To quote myself again: why don't you do some'inner child work' and see what you get out of it?

Schools embarrassment?? No idea what I meant to type there, which predictive helpfully interpreted for me.

Gawd - unchallenged = uncherished. (Btw do you, have you ever, felt cherished?)

Got rid of your friends, not friend.

Sorry for typos.

I'd also like to say I am so sorry you are suffering so much Boldly.

Boldy and Springydaffs :( Bugger.

I don't throw parties. I know few would come. I'm not a party person - never have been, never will be. It's just not 'me'. I sometimes enjoy being at them, but often don't, and I can't predetermine how much fun I'll have. I'd only go to my own party because someone would have to be there open the door to the very few who would show up! But... so what? Do I have to be awesome at everything I do? Nope. Do I honestly believe that being able to throw fun parties full of loads of people having a fantastic time defines a good person or a good friend? Nope. Throwing parties, even just dinner parties, is a skill that not all people have. In my younger days, this social "failing" did bother me. Now I don't care and I'm happier for it.

I suppose what I've been driving at with intellect v intuition is this:

I believe there's a part of us that works largely behind the scenes. It processes our experiences in a way we interpret as emotions, it helps us deal with social situations and helps us resolve and learn from the events that happen to us. However, that part of us is not invisible to other people - by the time they get into their 30s most people have developed a good sense for how most people function 'behind the scenes'. Their own 'behind the scenes' stuff picks up on the signals put out by our 'behind the scenes' stuff and tells them, through intuition, that we're not easy people to be around socially. Or that we're vulnerable people. No matter how much effort we make to mask or hide that part of ourselves. They don't hate us, they may even like us, but they sense something about us that puts them off.

So, to have good friends means we have to address the problem with our 'behind the scenes' selves. That means a) learning to be truly emotionally guided, rather than guided by fear, anxiety and loneliness, in our every-day lives and b) resolving the traumas we've experienced that have led to who we are. Now, the 'behind the scenes' part is the only tool we have that is capable of carrying out task b). But it can't work properly until we address a). Yet we can't do a) until we've dealt with b). A Catch-22 situation.

The reason therapy plays so heavily on compassion and anger is, I believe, because they are the most powerful of all our true emotions. They are the key to breaking out of the Catch-22 situation. If you can start to feel anger about the events in your past in an entirely nonjudgmental (of the self) way - that is, if you just stop interfering with the emotions and let the 'behind the scenes' stuff do its work, you allow yourself to deal with both a) and b). Likewise if you can develop feelings of compassion for yourself and others. Two paths to the same destination, or two parts of the same journey.

Boldly if you saw a little girl you knew and cared about being treated the way you were as a child, what would your response be? What emotions would motivate you to help that little girl? Compassion for the child and anger directed at the parents! So why is it you can't even feel those things for boldly, the one person in your life you should have the strongest emotional connection with? If what springydaffs says about becoming arrested at the point of trauma is correct, then the little girl of your old self isn't dead. You are still the little girl, and you won't ever be able to grow up if you don't resolve the past through allowing yourself to feel anger towards those who hurt you and feel compassion for your younger self.

Or at least that's how I see it.

I can't agree with you about compassion for others itp - I know I've said that before. During the therapy process I don't think compassion for others comes into it - the focus is on compassion for ourselves, dismally lacking thus far. I don't think we can afford to dilute that or split our focus with compassion for others. I really think we specifically can't do that.

I think compassion for others naturaly evolves out of compassion for ourselves - eventually.

Great post tho.

I've just found a piece of paper on my coffee table on which I jotted down the title of a book that sounds interesting: Adult children: The Secrets of Dysfunctional Families by John Friel and Anna Friel.

Linda fucking Friel!

I give up - beaten by predictive. Night night ('early' night for once after Nurse Jackie )

Aw I was excited about Anna Friel's foray into psychotherapy there.

Thanks for your support, all. I really appreciate it. I'm a bit exhausted, will read again tomorrow

springydaffs

I'm sure your right about what's best for you. I do over-generalize my personal experiences sometimes. It was easier for me to build up from a base of how I felt for the very few people in my life I really do care for. Once I grew used to that deeper feeling of compassion to these people, once I knew what compassion really feels like, I found it easier to direct that feeling towards myself. But that is my fix for my problems; just what was right for me.

ah ok, I get it. I was worried you may have been suggesting compassion for the people who have hurt us. Which may come over time (or not) but disastrous to entertain that when we are struggling to have compassion for ourselves at their hands.

I've been mulling this over all day (day off!). I am nothing but furious at the people who mistreated me, and already have compassion for my young self. My counsellor seems to want me to have some sort of religious experience about it, I don't know, physically act out hugging an imaginary little version of me. I don't know what more I can say beyond I don't blame myself for shit that happened to me. I don't know how to flog that any further. I'm not spiritual or anything, shit happened, it wasn't my fault, bad people did it to me, I'm angry with them for that, the end. I don't weep and wail about it because I'm not a weepy, waily person. Just because my emotions are not externally visible it doesn't mean I don't have them.

My counsellor asked how I feel and express my anger, do I punch pillows or scream or something like that wtf, no I don't. I'm not that kind of person. It's not me.

Basically the conclusion I am drawing is that people can tell I am damage so they are not keen. Awesome.

Group therapy is out of the question for me, Springy.
"You only got rid of your friend bcs your head joined the dots - how about your heart? Did it not feel uncomfortable, unloved, unchallenged, not valued? Probably. But you were probably used to it, perhaps thought this was the rough and tumble of normal relating."

No of course I know it's not normal, otherwise I wouldn't have felt like shit. I knew my heart wasnt cherished and loved by these people, because they were treating me badly. I knew it wasn't appropriate or acceptable from supposedly close friends. But my point is, everyone who has let me into their inner circle has treated me like this. They don't come with a stamp on their face saying they will treat me poorly, and indeed they treat other people perfectly well. So I don't know until it's too late and I have already wasted my time and they have eroded my self esteem more. It hurts, even though I know I have done nothing wrong. Am I just supposed to be alone? Because I really can't see a point to life without company of any sort. I don't want that. Plenty of other people manage to have wonderful full lives with people who live and cherish them. No one loves or cherishes me. Maybe that's just bad luck, but if it's because i have a stamp on my face saying I am screwed up because I was raped as a child and an adult and went through all sorts of other shit, well it's even more bleak than I thought. I can't undo any of that, so I am fucked.

There are people who have people who love and cherish them - my point isn't that I don't believe this is possible in normal, enriching relationships, my point is no one seems to do want to do it for me. So I am on my own.

I don't know what I am supposed to br doing differently.

Love. Very upset to hear that happened to you.

Why is group therapy out of the question for you?

Not that you have to do it, of course, but just wondered why it is out of the question.

You've tried everything - it isn't working. You are resourceful, bright, unstintingly brave (awesome) - and it isn't working.

You've consulted a professional who is saying there is something you can do, try, but you won't do it. Why is that? If there were any more social techniques you would have found them and utilised them by now. You've tried everything, it isn't working.

So why won't you do, try, what she is suggesting?

I'm not accusing you btw, it's a genuine q.

(Actually quite choked up about what's happened to you ToGo)

I will try, but there is nothing else I can get out of analysing my youth. Im already angry about it and sorry for myself about it.

I've had various types of group therapy in the past. It made things worse. I'm not a dominant character, I can't get a word in. I don't find it helpful, to me it's a bit of wallowing and no solutions. I also had various gems like "you don't fit in because you are mixed raced, so it's probably worse for you" and "you're not very fashionable, are you?" at group therapy. I tried it for two or three years, not something I wish to revisit.

Do I have to go into the gory details at therapy or something? What is therr to acheive by that? I already know it was wrong anf terrible and bad and not my fault etc etc etc. What more is there to say? And what does it have to do with why people don't bond with me now? Because they can sense thay I am too damaged tk bother with? So I've been failing to cover it up?

I feel like my therapist wants me to break down in tears and say "oh it's so terrjbke and I am worthless and a bad bad girl" and she can say "look you're not worthless, look at all these wonderful things you are!" And then magically I shall be loved and cherished by good people and live a hapoy and fulfiled love.

But I know I ma not worthless and a bad person, I'm a pretty good person with plenty of love and fun to offer but no one wants to take it from me. That is fuck all to do with child abuse or later abuse or bad experiences. It's because people are not interested in me.

Sorry for the monologue and typos, I'm on the beers

Wow. Wtf was the therapist doing to allow that sort of shit in group therapy! Did s/he challenge it?

You don't seem to have much respect for your current therapist? Join the club! (remember my dickhead comments upthread). It may be beneficial to find a therapist you respect?

Btw therapy doesn't work the way you are assuming - it isn't a rationale dynamic once you get down to the core work re you say something/therapist presents an argument back, reasoning with you. Core work is more about you/one accessing, embracing, your core self and then the whole thing has its own momentum. You have to have faith in, respect, the therapist to 'hold' you as you do this though.

Btw all of us who have been abused in childhood have the devil of a job accessing, much less embracing, our core selves. There is vast internal resistance to it. In the residential group therapy I mentioned it was those who had been sexually abused in childhood who by far struggled the most.

Struggled with it the most ie the resistance to accessing/embracing their core selves was fierce.

The first comment was the therapist!

So yea, not going back there....

I respect my current one but she can't seem to answer my question about why I should revisit bad stuff that happened 10, 20, or even 30 years ago, or what I have yo gain from that. Yes it may have been the first time I experienced rejection or whatever. But so what? I'm not feeling rejected now because I was rejected and abused as a child. I'm feeling rejected now because I am being rejected now. Its the current experiences that are hurting me. She won't accept that, but can't guve me a convincing reason why I am wrong. I gave an example, for example, of how every other woman I kmow has mamaged to have relationships with men,has had men approach them and thus can take their pick. But no men have ever wanted me to be their girlfriend. For weeks she just said she didn't believe it could possibly be true that men never approached me. It is true, i know it's true because I am living it. I'm not imagining it or making it up. I don't know why my current experiences are being brushed aside and I should just go back to my youth and then I shall be freed from the shackles. How can that be right?

The way you talk about nkt rationalising and instead embracing some intangible inexplicable process makes it sound like religion to me.