Lovelife

[robthroop]

Hi

A Dad here looking for some opinions from you amazing Mums. Going by some of the posts I've read on the subject I can imagine a lot of women rolling their eyes when they read this, but I'm looking for advice on how to re-energise my and the DW's lovelife.

We've been married 6 years, have two DS 6 and 3. We both work and manage to juggle childcare and domestic chores between us and a very understanding part-time nanny.

I feel that we don't make love enough and it effects me mentally and emotionally which goes onto effect our relationship. At the moment it's perhaps once or twice a month, and always on her terms. When I try to seduce her, however romantically or otherwise, it's always knocked back which does wonders for my self esteem.

I appreciate that this busy life can wear us all down, and that women and men want/need sex at different times and for different reasons. But I believe that making love is one of the best ways to unwind, relax and bring a couple together. It feels amazing and releases wonderful chemicals into the brain that make you feel happy. Why would anybody not grab even the smallest opportunity to do it with the person they love? I don't understand.

Please offer me kind words of encouragement and ideas.

Many thanks

Oh give over.
Feeling mopey and unhappy that you aren't having sex and not quite managing to hide it sometimes is hardly assault.
Grow up. The word assault is thrown around here far too much!

OP sounds backwards, but part of it could be pressure. Could you maybe agree to an entire month with no sex and see if the lack of pressure in that time helps?

Ooh, you probably blew it with the sulking, TBH. I wouldn't call it an assault as such (although I understand why springy uses that term: it is after all a form of coercion) but I can tell you that once you've seen your supposedly adult partner behaving like a toddler who's been told he can't have another sweet (i.e. your lady-candy) it's pretty much enough to dampen your remaining desire for him.

Well, it was for me, anyway.

so harsh twinklestein!

Any positive advice out there?

don't call it making love, don't try to seduce her, send her a few sexy texts during the day to wind her up and then bang out a quicky when the kids are in bed

Thanks Lovehandles, much more helpful.

After having my son amd being permanently knackered I lost my sex drive. We used to have it regularly, and the great sex we had was part of why I fell for him. But god kids can ruin all that!

Love my son more than I knew I could but it's killed my libido due to be exhausted. Which led to DH becoming very sulky, and pressuring me a LOT. Touching me up constantly, using sexual language, using emotional blackmail. All it did was put me off even more. I felt like I had roles to play - during the day I was 'mother' to one boy, at night I had to be 'lover' to the other boy!

I really hated his behaviour, and he started to make my flesh crawl.

Then it all came to a head one night when I had a bath, then fell asleep on the bed naked (because I was just SOOO tired). He woke me by touching me intimately... IMO this was assault, I had been sleeping and he decided he'd seen me naked, was turned on so he was going to have what he wanted.

I was livid and told him I couldn't take it any longer. That what he did was downright bloody wrong. And finally that seemed to flick a switch in him. He was so apologetic, and we had a very long and frank discussion.

He agreed to stop pestering and pressuring, and to understand the dynamics of the relationship had changed due to having our DS. That, even though he can still bonk even though he's knackered, I can't. I just can't muster the strength for it when I'm running on empty...

And he stick to his promise. I have stopped looking at him with disgust and resentment and I now want sex more often. Still not like before we had our son, but definitely more. And now I actually want it and enjoy it, rather than doing it just to passify and hope it's over soon so I can get some sleep!

Stop making it an issue and stops being an issue

Positive? The positive is that if you face what you've done you may get what you want.

But no. You want what you want, fast track. That's clear from your approach on here.

In a similar position OP, I posted here a couple of years ago. I followed the advice given, and explored the subject fully. Still in a completely mismatched relationship but clinging on to the hope that DWs libido will recover at some point. One previous poster mentioned it took ten years before she recovered herself after kids. My maths means I've got another six years to go!

Anyway, just so you know, you're not alone and it is a shit situation.

OP, I'm gobsmacked at some of the responses you've had! Assualt, Ffs!! That's ridiculous. Wanting closeness, intimacy and sex with the mother of your children is the most fundamental human emotion. There's almost nothing better in this world IMO than close-up, warm married sex.
Seriously, I feel for you and as the wife of an amazing husband with virtually no sexual urges towards me, I can see where you're coming from a woman's side. A couple of my closest male friends have also confided in me that they're in your position.
I dare say your wife's now viewing every approach as an expectation that she will have sex. This perceived pressure is counterproductive, so perhaps one way to take the pressure off is to try not seducing at all (romantically or otherwise!) for a bit? I realise this might be quite painful for you, but if you could actually tell her that you're still there for her when she's ready to have sex, that might release any tension she has. Also, telling her that and reassuring her it's ok puts her in a position of feeling in control over her body, and as a mum of young children, that can get lost quite a bit. In the immediate term, time, reassurance and some teeth-clenching restraint on your part might be needed. I'm guessing it's a long game from where you're standing, but then marriage is forever! ;)
You sound lovely, sensitive, honest and caring as a dad and husband. Maybe it won't be a quick fix but a husband like you sounds like gold dust and a genuine keeper. What are you doing next Friday? ;) Very best of luck.

Thanks Funfun. It never got to the stage you describe but it's good to hear it from a wife's perspective. I think I have some friends who have got to that point.

We've always been able to talk frankly about it, so I now I'm resigned to the fact that I've got to spend some time nurturing those embers back to a roaring fire. It is very frustrating not being able to fan them or give them the occasional puff, just got to sit back and keep an eye on them and do nothing. Excuse my awful analogy.

Did anyone look at the video of the marriage counsellor speaking at TED. As well as men backing off, she said wives should adopt the Nike philosophy and 'Just do it'. Women don't think about how constant rejection effects their husbands, it is really tough sometimes. She says that everything in marriage is done as a partnership, except choosing when to have sex which is controlled by the partner with the least interest. Sex is a gift, she says, and that if your partner needs it you should give it with love. Now I know that's not helpful in the practical world but wondered if anybody had empathy towards that position.

Thanks Keepit and Ladyconstance. Yup, that's where I'm at. Not talking about it, no pressure, hands off. Just some love and affection with no ulterior motive.

The real brain twister is that she still does want to have sex with me, and that very occasionally she will do something flirty or dirty during the day, but by nighttime the desire has been drained away. But I'm still all expectant and hopeful. Very hard to deal with but doing my best.

I posted earlier about trying to convince her to make more of the small opportunities we might have, but from what people have said this won't come over as fun and spontaneous at all. Just make her feel harassed. How can I plant the seed in her mind so it's grows into an idea and a desire without becoming a sex pest?

I think once you have children it is pretty easy to just give in to being a perfect mother, wanting the perfect house and putting everything above your sex life.

As a woman you feel knackered half the time. I went through a period of thinking about how I was going to surprise hubby with a quick one as soon as he comes through the door after work, but by the time he'd be home we'd eat dinner, do the evening routine and all I wanted to do was sitting down and watch TV for half an hour and then sleep.

However luckily he never pestered. Therefore I knew I enjoyed having sex and reconnect with him and I knew that once getting on with it I actually loved it. But the initial thought was to decline. So I was feeling bad to say no knowing that he will feel rejected.

Sorry not sure I've given you any advice. I would say at the moment for the next few weeks stop asking, stop obsessing over it, do some jogging to take that thought away.

Then try and prioritise things better. We actually decided a rule somehow, I would sleep in on a Saturday and he would sleep in on a Sunday while he kids were waking up stupid o'clock. So that meant that on a Friday evening I was more relaxed and willing to stay up late knowing I can wake up at 10 the next day.

So we kind of made it our sex evening. It kind of still is so many years later, it is sort of a given that this is how you would end a work week and relax for the weekend.

And there is hope. My little one is now 8 and our sex life is better than before kids. But we have both been considerate with eachother's feelings.

Thanks Fleurdelise. It's not making the most of the opportunities we get I find frustrating. So much time wasted on Facebook or Pintrest! Anyway, the trick is how do we change our priorities without me becoming a repellent sex beast??? In order to change things we have to talk, but if I bring it up I'm pressuring her and being a pest. It's a catch 22.

Well I think you need to change your strategies. Give yourself a "deadline" of not talking about it for let's say a month. During this time try to take over certain things at certain moments that would give her more time to relax like my suggestion of letting her sleep in one morning at the weekend so the night before she doesn't feel the pressure of going to bed early to be faced with kids the next morning waking up at 6-7 am full of beans.

See what she does with that time, is she watching TV or spending time on Pinterest? Or is she initiating intimacy as she feels more relaxed?

What happens if you don't initiate? How long would she last before she decides it is time to be intimate?

And then you can have a chat about it if things don't improve. Decide a no technology evening of the week, when you need to talk to each other and maybe be intimate.

what time are your kids going to bed? We had this rule even when the kids got older that they need to be in bed by 8 the latest and that gave us 2 hours to be together. No housework happened then except the odd "put the washing out/empty the dishwasher". That didn't mean we were having sex every night but we were able to be a couple, talk, cuddle on the sofa watching something, pay attention to each other.

Thanks Fleurdelise, great suggestions. We take it in turns to have a lie in, kids are normally squared away by 8 at the latest, but there are always lots of chores to do after that and sometimes work too.

Definitely not broaching the subject for sometime, see what happens.

"Did anyone look at the video of the marriage counsellor speaking at TED...Sex is a gift, she says, and that if your partner needs it you should give it with love."

Yes, and I could see where she was coming from. However, although she did say "just do it" (to please your partner), she more importantly said that often people with low sex drives don't feel an automatic desire and need physical stimulation to acheive that. That the normal sequence of events from neutral to arousal are reversed for them, and that they should be mindful that they need to start having sex to get turned on, rather than wait to feel mentally turned on before having sex.

Anyway, putting sex aside for a moment I think the main problem in your relationship is lack of couple time, and the little you have is in the evenings when she's most likely to be at her most tired. Perhaps work on spending time doing things together then look at the lack of sex.

How can I plant the seed in her mind so it's grows into an idea and a desire without becoming a sex pest?

You can't, you really just need to back off and accept that it may take a few years. The more you try, the less she will want sex with you, seriously, it's annoying as fuck and even if it's really subtle, she'll pick up on it.

I feel really bad for you actually. I would find it very difficult to be in a relationship where I was being constantly rejected.
Having said that, I was once in a marriage with a man who sulked and pestered me for sex and it had the effect of killing my (usually high) sex drive, but if you are sure you are not doing this then I would guess the real problem is both hormonal and tiredness on her part.
Also, are you sure the domestic work is as evenly split as you think it is? Men tend to overestimate how much they do..In studies where men have estimated 50 % or more it will turn out they are doing more like 25%.
When women feel like drudges it doesn't make them feel very sexy, so really do make sure you are pulling your weight ( and just do it without drawing attend to on to it. In other words don't go "hey look, I just cleaned the toilet!" And expect a blow job for it.
As far as the hormonal aspect, they say that sex for women happens above the neck, and it is partly but depleted hormones can really affect women's sex drive. I had zero sex drive while breastfeeding, which for was just a year, but other women will be affected longer.
That's not to say that there is anything much you can do about that element, but I do have some sympathy, and I don't think posters saying "tough shit, deal with it for another few years" are massively helpful. Sexual rejection (in a mutually respectful marriage which mine was not) can be soul destroying.

Would you really want to have sex with your wife if she was "just doing it" to please you?

Sounds like you're making an awfully big deal out of being Mr self-aware-kind-of-a-guy.

Thanks for all your posts. Some of you are being really helpful in helping me understand things from my wife's point of view.

Was just interested to hear opinions about that marriage counsellors ideas. I'm not saying I want my wife to 'Just do it', can't think of anything worse, but it was nice to have some of my feelings validated. Being physically rejected over months and years is hard, it takes its toll. It does seem unfair that I have to do all the work and waiting, if I'm allowed to be self indulgent for a moment.

Anyway, thanks again for all he helpful comments.

6 months ago my sex drive was all but dead and I couldn't much care if I ever did it again to be honest. However, during an unrelated argument with partner it all came out that he felt our relationship was devoid of 'closeness'....his choice of descriptive word. I was pretty gobsmacked at the time as I thought we were close but, on reflection, I realised that our sexual closeness was zero. I felt quite hurt at the time but came to realise that he has needs/feelings/desires and that I really needed to see if I coukd 'fix' this area of our ailing relationship. I then kind of sub conciously decided to just do it' and after a short while it became easier to get in the mood and to want, need and enjoy a sex life again. It's not easy to overcome. If I believe it's a dead cert that sex is a foregone conclusion I find it a real turn off. I prefer it to be unplanned.
There is no reason, by the sounds of it, for your wife not to want to resume a 'normal' sex life again one day but it just won't happen until she can mentally overcome some of the barriers she has built up to prevent her from engaging in sex.
Many women feel almost a little scared to re start a sex life with their partner as it almost opens the floodgates and the more sex he gets, the more he wants.
Perhaps if she watched the Lady Chatterleys lover series on tele she might get in the mood again. ???

Thanks Heyday. We do still have sex, it's only once or twice a month though and there is no spontaneity. It can feel a little formulaic sometimes when we start, but I genuinely believe we both enjoy it once we relax.

I'm happy to put the work in, but don't feel like it should all be on my shoulders.

I'm a very tactile person, and I'm desperately missing the physical closeness we once enjoyed. Because I feel rejected I put up barriers and sometimes we can go for weeks without hugging. No doubt if she feels pressured then she probably does the same.

Anyway, I'm aware of my behaviours and got some good advice and points of view.

Your wife's sex drive has changed post children. It may be that once the biological urge to reproduce has been satisfied that physiologically she doesn't feel the same level of sexual interests.
Some people have less interest in sex as they age,or/and in a LTR.

It may be just a blip, due to life etc and once things are less fraught perhaps her interest will resume.

Sadly, there are too many Threads about sexless and nearly sexless marriages on MN. Most of the posters' relationship started out with 'normal' levels of sex and affection.

There is no way of knowing which of these scenarios is yours.

Sex and affection should be so easy, however when it starts to (for want of a better word) goes wrong it becomes a very complex issue within a relationship.