Yes he was unreasonable, he knows he was unreasonable, how do we move on?

[AnotherDayAnotherFridge]

Dh and I have had a rough year (massive understatement). I had disability issues that are now much improved but ongoing, dh had depression, we had a newborn (as well as older dcs), and it all happened at once.

Dh admits that he has screwed up. He needed lots of emotional support, I needed a lot of physical support and instead of pulling together we pulled apart.

He was amazing. He looked after all the dcs. He dressed me. He did all the housework (I couldn't).

In return I gave him full and unconditional emotional support. I talked him down from his anxiety, I comforted him, I was there for him.

Things got better physically, I took back the reins of doing most things, he was still good and hands on (working full time) and that regained its balance.

But the depression stayed, and his neediness continued and I supported him.

Then he did something stupid. I want to be vague about it, i did post at the time. He basically wanted me to create an online profile for him so that other women could boost his self esteem.

I was devastated and hurt. He was shocked that it hurt me, but as soon as he thought about it, he could see that of course I would be, and was so sorry.

I felt like I'd been so supportive, and this was just a kick in the teeth. Why wasn't I enough?

And it brought up all this resentment in me. Yes he did everything physical for me when I was ill, but he wouldn't touch me or show me affection. Yes he did all the housework, but there were places downstairs that I couldn't get to in my chair, because there was stuff everywhere, and one day, when I was alone, I sobbed as I had to use the broom to clear a path through all the shoes and things to get to the toilet. I felt so useless and trapped. It didn't happen only once.

I didn't want to nag. He would spiral at any negativity, and I learned that it was easier not to mention things than to have to emotionally support his "oh god I'm so terrible" after I'd pointed things out. I know how that sounds. I felt trained. But I don't believe he did it on purpose.

So the profile thing was 3 months ago. He's tried. He didn't at first. He just waited for me to get over it, but since then he's tried. We became closer.

We used to talk everything through anytime one of us was unhappy. But I find it so hard now to mention things.

Then we planned to get away. Just the two of us. We arranged babysitters for the whole of next weekend. He sorted it all. We would have some time just the two of us. We were laughing again.

Then two nights ago, I was sat next to him on the sofa whilst he was on the phone to his DM. She wanted to come and visit next week, and dh said, "I tell you what, we've actually got this coming weekend free, why don't you come then and stay longer?"

I couldn't really believe what I was hearing. This big weekend that meant so much to me, he just gave away without even running it by me.

I just got up and left the room.

I was... I am so hurt and upset that the one thing I was looking forward to, our first childfree night in years, was just given away.

He came up after he'd got off the phone. He saw how upset I was, he apologised. Later he called his DM back and cancelled them coming.

He bought me flowers and chocolates. He walked through the door, took all the dcs, and said go and do whatever you want for the evening. He made me my favourite.

I just feel numb. It's not that big a deal. But it feels like he took the thing I was valuing the most, and threw it away.

I feel like I'm in shock.

I don't know who he is anymore. I don't want to be hurt anymore. I want to get past this but I'm not sure how.

We were such a good team. Just a year ago we were on track, communication was fantastic, he thought of me and I thought of him. That's how it had been for years. Now it's just crumbled. He doesn't think of me anymore. I can't and don't want to stop thinking of him.

I don't want to LTB. Last night he asked me what I want and I said "it doesn't matter what I want, I don't have it in my power to give me what I want. I only have the choice of stay or go, I can't change your behaviour"

He is willing to do anything. I can't help but feel something is broken inside me.

Just tell me I'm overreacting. This is a bad patch and we'll get through this. I know he is a good man. I just don't know if he's able to be good for me anymore :(

I can relate to some of this - became disabled at the same time as a new baby arrived, husband had to do everything. He was always busy yet somehow he didn't manage to deal with clutter or clean the corners in the way a woman would. He could step over things that were roadblocks to me in getting around the house. Everyone said, repeatedly, that he was wonderful. It was enraging. He wasn't spectacularly wonderful - he did what was necessary in practical terms, which other women seemed to adore. I lost count of the number of times I was told that many men would have taken off from a situation with a disabled wife and a new baby - I was so lucky my husband had stayed around obviously I should have been pathetically grateful as there was no other reason for him to stay but altruism. Yet during all that time, he was too stressed and too secretly frustrated at the situation to be my husband. He dressed me and made my breakfast as if I was his great-aunt. I was dying with loneliness and he spoke to me as if he didn't know me. It was awful but so many people told him he was wonderful, he thought he must be. Looking back, I can just about see that it was very, very hard for him to grieve for the life felt he'd more or less lost, while relating to me as if we were very content in our lives.

I'm saying all this to let you know that I understand how hard it can be to process the dichotomy of feeling grateful for practical support yet also feeling that you can't be in a relationship in which you're no longer being related to as a person, and as a woman. We needed a lot of counselling type help to process it all. There were other issues as well, as there are in your situation, but the disability changed the dynamics massively.

Feather, thank you so much for sharing all that. It certainly has changed things. It was horribly difficult for both of us. And yes he got a lot of praise from everyone (including me), even when some of the things weren't done in a way that was practically useful to me.

He'll be home in an hour or so.

He's stomped all over my boundaries. He's hurt me.

I've got lots to think about. Counselling would be worth a go.

I just need to get things straight in my head about what I want and whether I can have that with him.

"Bang! And your fuckwit's gone!"

It would fly off the shelves

OP, I understand how frustrated you are. Have you hit your limit, or do you want to try to find solutions? If you want to try, I think couples counselling would be a very good idea. I don't see how you can move forward without some objective, third-party help. Especially if he's not got the gumption to come up with stuff of his own accord.

If you don't want to LTB, you can try Relate or similar, but you may have to accept things might never be 'fixed' and you might never be happier than you are now. Only you can decide if that's what you want. If you're scared of being a single parent, I totally get that, been there, but you can 100% do it, if that's what you decide to do. I was terrified of going it alone, but actually both the boys (5 and nearly 3) and myself are much better off.

Thanks :)

It'd make me millions. I want to try one last time. I'm not quite at my limit, but I'm fed up and exhausted and I won't keep taking this.

I will LTB if I have to. I'm not going to spend my life with someone who makes me unhappy. But up until this year, he did make me happy, and he has supported me through some shit times in the past, with love and care and all the things I expect from a good partner.

If things don't change now, then it's over. That would be sad. But it wouldn't be my doing.

I guess counselling is the obvious next step.

He is trying now. He's sent me links to articles about rebuilding stuff, he's pushing to talk. All the things that had he done them in June and made a concerted effort then, would have meant we were through this by now.

I don't want someone who will only put the effort in when faced with the possibility that I might leave. I want someone who actually gives a crap about my feelings.

Bang! And your fuckwit's gone! ...love that

I'm genuinely baffled by the behaviour you've recounted here, though: be assured that it's not nothing and you weren't over reacting.

Your DH seems to have serious problems with theory of mind, or empathy, or something on those lines. I'm not trying to be an armchair psych, but I really can't understand how anyone would think asking a partner to create an online date profile could be anything other than devastating to that partner. He doesn't come across as deliberately aggressive so much as in his own world (to say the least).

Whether that's really true, or is something you could live with, remains to be seen.

I hope it's been helpful to reflect a bit by posting here. Sometimes it helps just to get it out.

Trackr it's been really helpful just to get my thoughts a bit more ordered. We're going to talk in a bit. He is not aggressive. And he used to be able to show he cared effortlessly. I didn't doubt it. I don't know what's changed.

Was he always really needy and did his depression kick in when he had to step up and take control, a reaction against you having time to boost his ego, while he helped in practical ways.
With you too ill to ego massage, his 'depression' allowed him to be completely selfish - begrudingly (perhaps) having to do the drudgework that I guess you used to do - and any complaints brought on a pity party so great that you stopped doing it.
I think he was actually angry with you, angry with the situation, and decided to put himself first. He decided he deserved some fun. MAybe he thought you were too weak to leave him? Who knows. I know its hard and frustrating having the life you thought you deserved pulled out from underneath you, and I think some men resent having to step up and pull their weight, and take it out on the person they are supposed to love. They dont want to look like the bastard that walked away. Why else would the affection and emotional stuff be taken away?

I think you are furious. But possibly scared to express exactly HOW furious because he turns it round into how awful he is. This is where a third party MAY be able to help - if you can freely express your feelings without having to soft sugar them so he doesnt self flaggellate. Its a manipulation to avoid conflict or criticism.

I fear it may be broken then. Looks like he is saying the words but the actions are saying something else. Through no fault of your own, you failed to provide the constant ego boosting his fragile soul needed, and you are reaping the consequences of that.

He was always needy in some ways, but it certainly got worse.

You've given me some food for thought. Thank you. I'm still waiting for him to come up and talk :( kids have been in bed for more than an hour.

I saw this thread earlier and didn't post because I wanted to see how it would evolve.

Glad you've had some supportive advice.
The thing that strikes me is that you're articulating two things at once - the apologetic confused wife-role and the fucking angry, let down, I don't trust you any more feelings. The latter seem more genuine but from the impression I get, you are instinctively mitigating them with the former.
Slightly joking but I'd say you need to do a primal roar and find your anger and emotions. You are upset, you feel let down, abandoned, disappointed, something like that - what is it exactly? Stop apologising and tell us, give us the full ROAR

That made me :)

You're right. I do need to let it all out.

Can I do a primal squeak?

Go for it. Squeak like there's no tomorrow.
Sod being reasonable, women so often subdue their emotional impulses because we're supposed to be so bloody reasonable all the time.

Do two things :

1. primal roar post. Sod whether it makes sense or is even in proper sentences, just let it go and say what you feel. Type away. Bash the keyboard. Give it some welly.

2. enjoy the feeling of getting it out there for a couple of days or a month or however long you need. Feel the zen like calm that comes after a big emotional dumpfest. And then return to the feelings and think rationally about all the other stuff - am I being unfair, have I given a balanced account, I don't want to upset him, all that stuff.

But please don't do all that til you've fully felt the RAAAAAGH moment

Sounds to me as though you have both gone through an awful time where you have both needed each other's support simultaneously. That is bound to put a huge strain on any relationship.

And, at times of huge strain and stress you will see each other differently. Strain and stress in a relationship is like looking through a magnifying glass...all the flaws that you didn't realise were there start to come to the surface. Disappointment that the other person is not the person you thought they were or hoped for starts to dominate the relationship and makes things sour.

I don't think all is lost but I do think communication is key here, maybe through relationship counselling. Time and space to acknowledge what you have been through and the impact this has had on you both, as individuals and as a couple. Your relationship has changed and it is going to be important to move with it rather than resist.

It sounds as though you still have a lot going for your relationship. You have survived some very stormy waters when others would have fallen overboard a long time ago. Take heart from that and try to focus on some positives...what he does do rather than what he doesn't. Be grateful for those things because otherwise bitterness will swallow you up. Even if it is just one thing each day to be grateful for, it is important to acknowledge it.

I hope life moves into calmer waters soon for you both.

Firstly I would stop engaging with his requests for reassurance. It's draining, negative and unattractive. If he's got a problem then he needs to deal with it instead of making it your problem to resolve. It seems he act's like an arsehole , then has the audacity to aproach you (the personal he's treated badly) for positive feedback. I'd make it clear this is something he's expected to resolve in counselling, and I'd state firmly there's no more self disparaging negative self talk. The self pity / attention seeking needs to stop and I wonder why the counsellor hasn't challenged his view of himself as a victim.

Secondly I don't know what your health condition is but I notice you say you have chronic pain. No one should be living with chronic pain. Have you seen a pain specialist for other options, have you been referred to the pain clinic ?

Is he still depressed? I agree that his depression, and your support of him through that, has made him selfish. Your unwillingness to challenge his ineffectualness because of his depression has left him in a state where he thinks he only has to do what suits him, because it's him that needs the support, the emotional bolstering, the self-confidence boosting.

Now your physical needs have reduced, he's stopped having to consider those - and has also stopped considering you in other ways by the sound of it. YOU are getting better - he still needs support, is how he feels about it.

So as you are getting stronger, then you don't need consideration - ALL of his consideration goes towards himself.

(I know I'm kind of repeating myself here but not exactly)

You had to give him the support before, just as he had to help you out when you were physically unable to help yourself. But it's time for him to realise that, just because you are physically better, doesn't mean he can ignore you and your needs now.

I would have been hopping mad at him giving away your longed-for and planned-for weekend just like that, without any consideration for you!

I got cross a couple of hours ago when DH got the arse because he'd planned to go to his mother's tonight to stay over, only he hadn't bothered to tell me because it was only going to be him and DS1 who went. He told his mother on fucking monday but apparently I'm not important enough to be told until today. As it turns out, because tomorrow is Father's Day here, DS1 had asked me to book a night out at our favourite restaurant tonight for Daddy - so I did. So now we're doing that - because no one else in this house was aware of any alternate plans for this weekend. DH has the hump and has gone over to his mother's now - but he'll get over it at least. I did ask him when he was going to learn that he wasn't a single man who could make this decisions without recourse to anyone else - we've only been married 8y, he's a VERY slow learner, clearly - he's not sure.

Anyway. Mild digression. Back to you - he needs to address his thought processes - everything he's doing, you are an afterthought, if any thought at all is directed towards you. I can't believe he was shocked that you were hurt re/ the whole FB "mememe" page thing - really it would have taken a couple of seconds of "how would I feel if AnotherDay did that to me" for him to realise what an utterly tossy thing to do it was - and yet he was shocked.

Doing things wrong, upsetting you, apologising - rinse and repeat - it's not how you want to live, is it. :( I haven't answers - because he is the one who needs to change how he thinks - and that's up to him, sadly.

He should keep going to the counselling, might help him. AND he should realise how fucking lucky he is that you're still there and learn how to behave in a thoughtful considerate manner to you before it's too late.

“Can you imagine how hard it was for him to care for all of you whilst having a full time job?”

The OP doesn't have to imagine it, she lived it. If it had been the other way round, I doubt if she'd have done the bare minimum as he clearly did (leaving shit around the house so she can't get through it with her wheelchair FFS) and then felt entitled to set up an online profile where she could conduct virtual affairs with randoms on the internet, because after all, she'd earned it, right? And not only had she earned the right to do that, but to preserve her view of herself as a great person, she wouldn't do it in secret behind his back, she'd demand his nodding, smiling approval and agreement because after all, she'd be entitled to his gratitude and he'd not see it as her rubbing his nose in it, but as helping her with her self esteem, wouldn't she? Catch yourself on.

And every single thing that NettleTea has said, which is totally brilliant and on the money.

OP, listen to what he does, not what he says. By his giving away your break meant he was not that bothered about the break. I think you are standing up for him more than he deserves.

See all of this as the last straw. He says he cares but he does not actually care. The online shit would have been the end for me.

Thank you all so very much. It's been so hard to begin to understand his motives in all of this. I think I'm beginning to.

My primal squeak? It's un-fucking-fair! He knew the shit I had been through in the past, he knew the abuse I suffered from a "depressed" XP. He knew every tiny little thing about me. And he fucking did it anyway! I was in pain! I was hating myself and useless and I couldn't even lift up my babies to hold them and play with them! I was unsurprisingly depressed! I had such terrible and horrible thoughts! And I was alone with them!

He was my joy. He really was. He could make me smile when I couldn't see anything good in the world. He made me so fucking happy. The only person who ever has.

He took that away and turned into this selfish, spineless, whiney, shitbag who took and took and took from me until there was nothing left and now I don't even know if we can ever heal. And if we don't then he's taken away the one person who truly made me happy.

Squeak over.

Yes I think it is the depression changing my behaviour as much as his. I didn't want to cause him more pain, so focused on praising the good and ignoring the bad. I felt like such a burden (he never said I was, not once, he tried to reassure me), I felt like I owed him everything.

Somewhere along the way he stopped considering me when he made his decisions.

We talked last night. I don't know how productive it was. For the first time I really let him see my inner squeak. I told him I was interested in propping him up. He has his counsellor for that. There were a couple of times when he (probably understandably) started erring on the side of self pity in his explanations. But I told him that it was just more bullshit, and I wasn't interested in how hard things were for him.

I really wasn't very nice.

When I asked him if all this was because he wanted to fantasise about screwing, or actually screwing, someone else. I said that if that was the case I'd prefer he told me now. Because we both deserved to be with someone who we desire and who desires us.

He was upset that I'd suggest that, but seemed sincere when he insisted that he finds me completely attractive and has had no interest in anyone else from the moment we got together. He said he still has to pinch himself that I would even look at him twice.

I said I don't know if we can ever get through this. My only certainty is that one more big thoughtless act and we're over, but we may be over anyway.

He said he would do whatever it takes to mend things, and that he believed that we could be happy again.

So we shall see. It felt good to let it all out. The reason he hadn't come straight up, was that he was writing me a letter to try to get his thoughts straight. He made no excuses. Didn't blame his depression, blamed himself. The baby cried in the night and he got up with her. He's up with the dcs now, whilst I'm supposed to be asleep.

I'm not interested in his words. I need action. But I know he can be thoughtful. Can he be thoughtful when it's just an everyday decision? Can he think "will AnotherDay be happy with that?" About any choices he makes. Time will tell.

As for me, no more reassurances and fuelling the neediness. He wants self esteem, he'll have to start getting it from himself.

He did say, "I am a good dad. I'm a good man. A good boss. A good worker. But I've been a truly crappy husband, and that changes now." if you knew him you'd know that was a big change. Previously he would have collapsed and said he was shit at all those things. He didn't say it with self pity either. It wasn't said so that I would say "oh no you're not!" It was matteroffact.

I haven't addressed you all individually, but you have all been so helpful.

Even the criticism of me at the beginning of the thread helped. It was actually the first time I burst into tears and felt anything since this latest things happened. Which helped me find some emotion again. I'd shut down.

*i told him I wasn't interested in propping him up

Sounds like a very productive chat, AnotherDay - I really hope he gets his act together and keeps it up, because it's what's needed now.

Thanks Thumb, and I hope your dh starts thinking of you too. He is currently emailing and leaving messages for relationship counsellors with no instruction from me, so that's good too.

I'm not putting up with any more shit. I think he has accepted that, but only time will tell.

What I can't understand is why he wanted you to set him up with a profile on a dating site. Those things are easy to do - why didn't he do it himself?

There are many men who are married who are on those sites and maybe some of them do do it to boost their self esteem. Who knows? I know women have complained about the men who message and message but won't meet up.

Why did he have to involve you? I'm not saying it would be easier if you found out later that he'd done it, but at least it would be within the realms of normality. It is so far from normal to ask your wife to write an online dating profile for you - does he realise how weird that is?

That's the point where I would have dumped him.

Being depressed doesn't make you behave like that. Really, it doesn't. That's the behaviour of someone who feels very entitled, who thinks the other person loves them so much they will do anything for them, anything at all.

I think you're right that he believed he was utterly safe to suggest anything to me. In some ways that's a good thing. In this way? He's been an idiot.

He would have seen setting it up himself as cheating and unacceptable. But if I did it, it would in some way "legitimise" it and make it all above board. An ego boost from other women without cheating

I have pointed out that of course it would be some form of cheating.

He knows that I would leave him without question if he set up his own profile. I think this was a way to circumvent that boundary

He is ashamed and has spoke to his counsellor about it. She has been very firm in her view of how stupid it was, and also pointed out that any self esteem garnered from outside of him, would be a short term and ultimately useless fix.

I am hurt that he would put a stranger's view above mine. He said it was because he knows I love him and am therefore biased.

His thinking makes no sense. That's another thing that worries me. If it makes no sense to either of us, who's to say he won't follow that irrational line again.

All I can do is draw my line in the sand and make it clear that if he crosses it then I have done all I can, and will sadly have to leave what can never be what it was.

I think this is the Buddy system gone wrong. Most spouses have an unspoken agreement that if something happens the other one will step up and offer support. It usually works well until one person decides to take advantage of the deal.It's fine to take the financial weight in the short term if a spouse loses their job. It's not fine if they are still unemployed five years later and you've now got two jobs.

I agree that he knew it would be cheating to set up his own profile. It looks like an attempt to get you to sanction his cheating using his alledged issues as justification. I don't believe he didn't consider your feelings in this. I think it's evident that he did consider them which is why he tried to get you on board.

While he probably was depressed at one point , I would question quietly whether he is now. He's gotten away with a lot under the guise of being depressed or anxious. If he wasn't depressed you probably wouldn't tolerate the constant need for reassurance or the self pity , or his pitiful excuses for setting up a profile.