When you love each other but you can't agree..

[gabyjane]

We've had a turbulent relationship to say the least. That will be our punishment for leaving our partners for each other. 6 years of tears, causing others heartache & upsetting our children.
I am not in any way minimising that part, it's been hard work which like I said was our fault but I felt we'd got to a point now where things have settled with everyone. Both ex's have had partners for the last few years and the kids now speak to us and we go out as a unit which is lovely.

But I am still dealing with things that I hoped would have changed.
Of course when we got together he told me all the usual..he wanted to marry me, he wanted children, to live together etc..deep down I knew the first 2 would never happen neither did I want them but we did move in together after 6 months. I feel it's the only thing we don't fall out over. We work very well as a couple, both work hard and enjoy the same things.

Things have generally been good..arguments about ex's, the children have come and gone then last year I caught him texting a female friend, I know your all thinking 'what goes around comes around' but he is a family man, still totally devoted to his children & was in a very long marriage just fell out of love and I'd never have imagined he'd do anything so I made a decision to get past it.

We've had rows about it, he thinks I should get over it..then I caught him again..nothing substantial, said he was suffering stress & depression from the last few years and needed someone to talk to. He saw a councillor in the new year and on life went. One of the things he said at his meetings was he would like to get his house sold but felt guilty effectively kicking his family out. I understood and haven't mentioned it ion probably the first 4+ years.. I did though say that after all this time I'd have hoped a divorce was on the cards. He agreed but nothing's happened. He's told me he's got no intention of selling the house either.

Queue quite a few friends separating and him telling me how they are 'selling up & going there own ways' 'divorcing' etc and I lost my temper..told him I'm fed up of feeling like the other woman..that we can't progress as a couple while he's still in the position he was 6 years ago.

I know I deserve it..I know the grass isn't always greener (although for me it has been, my ex was a gambling lying cheat) I guess I feel we've tried to be as sensitive & thoughtful to everyone we hurt and now it's time we were allowed to move on but he's not doing anything about it, I want to feel like it's me him and the children not him his wife then me.

I love him and feel totally in limbo what to do..hang around for another 6 years...hoping...

after all this time I'd have hoped a divorce was on the cards

He's still married then?

I'm fed up of feeling like the other woman
You are the other woman. You always will be.

Why isn't his wife divorcing him?

But it sounds as though the only person who is stopping you 'being allowed' to move on is him since you say the other parties have new partners ans the children have now managed to deal with the consequences of your affair.

Sorry but it doesn't sound like he is in a hurry to be the sort of partner you want. You say he just fell out of love etc, but he has carried on the untrustworthy behaviour in these dodgy texts.

What did he say when you lost your temper? Has he given you any reasons as to why things are pretty much the same now as when you both left your partners?

Were you married? Did you get a divorce if so?

He just sounds horrific.

A divorce should be incredibly easy after such a long separation.
My ex-H made divorce almost impossible. Refused initial divorce, demanding legal separation. Then divorced based on 2 yrs separation had to be dated from the separation agreement! Ridiculous, but I pushed on, whilst trying to be reasonable for the sake of our children.
For info - he cheated, but it was 2 years prior to the split. Adultery expires as grounds for divorce after 6 months! Apparently it is considered 'forgiven' by then.
After 3 years separation, there is no counter possible. You just need the financial agreement.
Why is he stalling with that?

I kind of understand your situation OP. I met my dp when he had recently separated from exw (but I strangely felt like ow) and three years on all of the promises of living together marriage divorce go unanswered. I have already decided I will no longer wait/waste my life waiting for someone who will not commit neither should you. Move on

So he was an exit affair, you were looking for a way out and this charmer said all the right things to hook you and you fell for it. Six years of this less than satisfactory relationship has gone because you feel guilty and are embarrassed that the affair that caused such a schism in the lives of others turned out to be less than rosy (what a surprise).

Hooking you was the hard work and now that he has you, he can put his feet up. You have only one life, don't spend it with a liar and cheat because you feel guilty and are embarrassed at your poor choice, locate your self respect and end this farce.

6 years of turbulent misery and your kids didn't speak to you for some of it sounds horrific. He's still married to his ex and has one foot out of the door doesn't he? Plus he's sniffing about for the next woman...what a keeper
I guess this could be argued to be a natural consequence of moving in with a cheater far too soon on then back of a fantasy relationship you had whilst still married to other people. I bet all this would have become apparent if you had developed a normal relationship.
Don't fall for the sunk costs fallacy - I know you have invested a lot in this and there is a lot of face to save but that doesn't mean you have to stay with him forever.

Oh and I don't buy the 'I made my bed...' (flagellation lite') either, you're just embarrassed. You knew that a lot of the stuff he was talking was bullshit but he was a distraction and 'falling in love' was an easier/ more self righteous reason for ending your marriage. Six years later and you've latched onto the 'sunken costs' fallacy because just like you marriage, leaving because your unhappy appears to be a difficult option for you.

The work on yourself that you didn't undertake at the end of your marriage is long overdue.

You have given up a lot of things for a man who wasn't worth it.

I would be looking to accept this and move on.

You are minimising (on his behalf) an awful lot of piss poor behaviour by your DP, OP. He sounds horrible and maybe it should not come as a surprise that he is behaving in a horrible way. I think you should leave him. Don't fall in to the trap of thinking that after all that has gone on, you need to stick with him, you don't.

Ketchup yes he's still married. I've left 'pushing' the decision for as you can see years. I realise we hurt ex's etc but we are a long way down the line now. I think she doesn't do it due to money but he pays for the house etc and she has a full time job so I don't buy it

Norest, yes I was married, we divorced each other went halves on the cost.

Kitty biscuits see he's not, that's the most frustrating thing, the reason I'm posting as am tearing my hair out with ways to try and make things work, make him understand that a few small changes could make life so much easier.

Mrs juice (and fir anyone else reading!) we didn't have an affair. We left our partners before anything happened. I'd known him years before so 'knew him'..he's worried she's going to do him for adultery yet knows here's nothing to be done for so?

Londonmummy it's very hard isn't it, trying and hoping that person was what you thought you wanted then things don't arise..I'm lost tbh

Isetan he was an exit I guess but for the right reasons and I wouldn't change being with him. Me and my ex were over years ago and I never wanted to leave due to my child but yes it made me have the push to do it. Like I said if he could only move on with me things would be a lot different.

Obsidian yes it's been he'll if I'm honest. We've both had ex's get there revenge should I word it like that but when it comes to an argument it's always mine that's the one in the wrong, his ex can do no wrong and it hurts. If I dare mention anything about his kids it's thrown back at me that actually its my child that did so and so..almost like a competition.
It's nothing to do with saving face, that doesn't bother me at all. I don't regret what I did ( other than hurting people along the way) I just get so upset he can't see where I'm coming from. I'm glad I had the push to leave my ex as may still be stuck there.

Thank you for the other replies, it's so hard to explain and I'm fed up of effectively nagging for him to move on. I know he would never go back to his wife, there is no danger of that. I think the easiest way to explain it is he has his life and I fit in around it..he's very good in many many ways and isn't a bad person he's just totally oblivious that times running away and life's short.

Last night for example he announces his child's coming round. We've had him move in a lot due to ex going away and I was a bit like 'oh you could have mentioned before it was all arranged' apparantly he won't 'book him in' which wasn't what I was implying. I feel possible set routine to a certain extent would help everyone know where they are at? Does anyone have any comments on whether I'm being unreasonable there? I work in a nursery & look forward to child free time so feel a bit cross when this noisy boisterous child just appears..I probably sound like a total cow now.

As for the divorce, well this morning he said the wife has lost ithe certificate I said it's been 8 months since we last fell out over it and I was getting tired of the excuses. He got cross and said it wasn't his fault, his ex is the most organised person so not sure I believe, I'm going to ask him later to see the texts back and forth to her about it.

The house (which incidentally was only discussed a few weeks ago and he said he was keeping it until his children were older) He then drops this bombshell on me which I have to say totally wound me up to the point I walked out. He tells me that he's 'made a lot of money from it' totally confused I replied 'sorry.' Apparantly he's discussed with the ex that he's selling it (all this since yesterday's row) and it's got a lot of equity in it that they will split..I was seething and said it would have been nice if the person that he lives with etc could have been told? He said it was going to be a surprise?? That's when I walked out. I cannot even say I believe him unless I see texts to the effect that it's happened but even then why would you do some thing like that knowing it means so much to me. Does he nothing one of the children will tell me or I'll drive past and see a for sale sign? That he would suddenly be round there loads doing work to it and I'd be thinking what exactly?? I actually think he's either totally clueless..

hi OP....i can sympathise about how you feel, its not embarrassment as someone pointed out . In these cases it seems that very few people can actually credit people having affairs with any form of emotion other than selfishness. And as you said you didn't have an affair and adultery lapses as a reason for divorce after 6 months if the betrayed spouse stays with the cheater.
You partner has absolutely no reason not to divorce except he doesn't want the hassle or the financial impact.
sadly you come last in his priority list...which frankly is not on...his children should come first , and you - his current and significant partner next - his wife is not his responsibility or should she be a priority ( albeit decency says he probably has feelings for her as they have history and children together but that means he should treat her with respect and work amicable towards a fair divorce , nothing else )

Your relationship sounds a bit off kilter tbh...he has been txting other female friends which you imply is not on a purely platonic basis, he wont divorce and he doesnt discuss big decisions with you. The house selling is a big thing , not that it is your decision, obviously but if he gets disentanagled from wife financially - what are your plans as a couple ? would this mean buying together a new family home etc ? it seems he doesnt see your relationship as the permanent future if he isn't even making these plans with you.

Have you talked to him about this and how you feel that he keeps secrets and isnt planning for the future with you and you feel insecure about this ?

Red jelly bean thanks for your reply.

Your right and I feel utterly torn and upset wanting him to understand where I'm coming from.

I got home and asked to see the texts from the ex wife regarding the house and divorce. He showed me albeit annoyed I was asking. The ex is clearly not happy and says she doesn't want it sold, that going into rented would cost more than the mortgage so where is the sense? But she goes on to say she will raise 1/2 the equity to stay in it (10k) and owe him the rest? She will stay in it, he will carry on paying the mortgage..this is their plan.

Tbh I don't see the point, it's not a separation is it? He says it's his house end of. I said the 'surprise' bit is laughable and he must think I'm stupid, he says I am..

Yeah had enough, not going to get what I want am I..no future with him..

Wanted to add whilst trying to talk to him he sat at the PC and worked..this is a big bug bear of mine on days off. I told him was quite apparant he wasn't really interested..His response..'I've heard it all before'.

I'm going to a family members later. I'm taking my lo with me. I don't want her to know what's going on at the mo yet I don't know what to do. Partners said in 2 weeks when he's been paid he will move out. He says I have a 'rich family and they can bail me'..this won't happen nor would I expect it. I don't know what to do as can't afford a deposit on another house, nor can I stay where I am..what do people do? Totally stressed out. He's currently downstairs working..whistling away??

You need some time on your own tbh. You jumped into moving in with him after 6 months. You are each others rebound relationship.
He clearly has no intention of selling the house or getting a divorce.
You'll have to rent somewhere I think. Have some time being single. And be smarter next time. If he can do what he did to his wife and mother of his children he can do it to you too.

Start looking around at rental properties.
Remember you don't have to live in a re ted property forever.
Often it will be a stopgap to get you away from where it is you have to leave.

I was going to say that I really don't feel he is committed to you.
Not getting divorced after so long would worry me if I were you, and why is he paying his exs mortgage?

Think only of ypurself and dc and what is best for you now.

Thanks for the replies.
Reubs I don't think we moved in too soon. A lot happened I between but as I said due to the kids & ex's but we do work well as a couple..believe it or not! I think even if we'd left it until 2 years ago and moved in I'd still be dealing with this situation. We've been through so much together it's almost like we've fought each other over things which isn't good. He has had terrible guilt over what happened and has been seeing a councillor, the times flown I guess, half good half bad but not his fault. This however is something he can do something about and won't.

One direction thanks. He's pretty slow on getting many things done, I find it sad I've had to get to this point to get him to do it which isn't right

Last night we messaged back and forth as I was out. it's simple as far as I'm concerned I'd like him to sell the house. I have no interest in the money side of it, I'd literally be happy renting with him for the rest of our time together but he cannot seem to understand that.
He told me he's going to get his part and we maybe can look at getting somewhere..(queue screams of frustration) when it's not solved anything? He'll still pay the mortgage? It would still kind of be his house & nothing's different except he's got a chunk of money that let's be honest he won't do anything with.

Wish I knew the logistics in their position regarding the house. Personally I think he's doing a silly thing..of course he says 'I can't win' I have explained what happens in time and ex still doesn't want to sell or the house prices crash..are there implications there & it gets nasty? I think this would change everything and 'his' house becomes more there's than it ever has been? Feel we'd be going backwards. Maybe I'm totally wrong though

Then I thought to myself I'm making an argument for nothing. I'm not going to buy a house with him, why am I fighting over something where there is no outcome different to what I already have...

Is it his house or is it in joint names? And even if it is his, surely the fact his wife lives in it with his children, I can't see that it is as simple as her giving him some equity.

You also have to look at if you want to be with a man who would essentially evict his wife and kids? Him paying the mortgage could be the equivalent of maintenance. It's good that he's keeping a stable roof over his kid's heads

Gammon It's his house no joint names.

Reubs I'm not expecting him to 'evict' them. The sale if done at the mo and it sold would give them a big chunk each, neither of them would get another mortgage but they wouldn't be homeless..he pays maintenance too to the ex.
Maybe it's me, is it normal to fund your ex till the kids are much older? How do people ever move on if that's the case?

Try not to look at it as if he's funding her. It's the house his children live in. I'm sorry to say it sounds like he hasn't emotionally left them. I think courts usually say children can live in the family home with the parent who has custody until they are 18 but I'm not entirely sure

But in a way I do. I see both sides of our friends all moving on in terms of divorce & houses and just see us..well sitting ducks. How do other people do it? His best friend sold the family home, however the ex got her share and bought her own house, job done. He pays maintenance and they are both free agents. I understand he hasn't detached from the kids and I get that but hypothetically if his children were say very young (2) would I be looking at waiting around for possibly 12 years? Maybe it's the norm and I'm totally wrong?

It's not the norm but if he's not sorted it by now it doesn't look like he has the intention of doing so.
However, my mums partner paid hes ex wifes mortgage until her new partner moved in as his kids lived there too so people do things differently I suppose.
The best you can do is work out what you want. Can you continue under these circumstances? If he's not willing to even look at things from your point of view then is that the kind of relationship you want?

He isn't divorcing because financially it's a nightmare. Perhaps him and his DW have decided it's for the best. That's totally separate to what finally drove you to post on here.

He is living with you, he is texting other women, and that should be your concern tbh. If 6 years down the line he's still dithering about if you're the one it might be time to make the decision for him.

What a mess.

The house, doesn't matter who's name its in. The man doesn't want to see the children leave the family home owing to his actions. Quite nice of him I think.

Texting other women, I am not surprised given the state of your relationship.

Don't listen to him, watch his actions and that's how he feels.

Why he won't get divorced imo is simply because he just doesn't want to sever ties.

Tbh this is a mess.

Find a nice little place for you and dd. see him but don't tolerate the rest of his load. Hopefully you will see sense and run.