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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

I am a woman, how do I help my dh with this?

42 replies

ManStuff · 27/08/2015 23:13

Name change, regular, bobble plate, penguin date, naice ham, now now Jeffrey etc.

I have name changed because of the sensitive nature of this post.

Dh is struggling with life. I don't have any male friends close enough to ask and he has only one close friend who knows some of it but has no answers.

Our daughter was raped when she was 15 by an ex boyfriend. There is absolutely no chance of justice, his word against hers, no evidence, time passed (3 years now), dd's mental health issues at the time making her an unreliable witness, the British justice system making it almost impossible to get a rape conviction etc etc.

This is killing him, he feels that the ex bf has got away with it scot free because he (dh) isn't allowed to deliver his own rough justice and thinks he's no kind of father because of his inability put things 'right' in the eyes of the law. Dh is a good man, kind, calm, considerate. This is the only thing in 25yrs that I have seen him get understandably worked up about.

Dd had moved on, I've moved on, but dh is stuck in a PTSD type response. He can't sleep, he says he can't stop 'doing' because then his head starts wanting to kill the ex boyfriend. Sometimes he goes two or three days without proper sleep.

I happen to know that the ex bf isn't getting away with it entirely. Kids being kids he's had a few smacks from people who know what he did (they're late teens, they go to bars). I don't condone this but should I tell dh, would it make him feel better do you think? Ex bf will always looking over his shoulder.

Ex bf was 16 at the time, 19 now.

Dh, after many months (years!) of persuasion had seen the GP today and got the number for counselling but it will be at leat another five months before he's seen.

Any words of wisdom would be welcomed.

OP posts:
RattusRattus · 27/08/2015 23:22

How do you know if your DH doesn't. I would certainly tell you. Bereavement counselling might help - not because he is bereaved by death but any major trauma can provoke a bereavement response (mourning the time before the trauma).

Horrible situation for your entire family. Flowers

RattusRattus · 27/08/2015 23:23

tell you = tell my DH. Am sitting here thinking that you are my DH!!

RattusRattus · 27/08/2015 23:25

You also mention your DD's mental health issues at the time - is she well enough now to be a credible witness in the eyes of the law, and may be able to bring about a prosecution now?

wafflyversatile · 27/08/2015 23:26

So sorry for all of you. It must be terribly hard. I'm glad he's agreed to counselling. I hope it helps him.

I have no wisdom.

Maybe to see him through until counselling he could try a meditation class? Or there are hypnotism cds/mp3s that can put nice relaxing thoughts into your head to get you to sleep? Just sticking plasters.

Other than that just reassuring them that it's not possible for parents to protect their children from all the world can throw at them. That it's not a failing in him (if he feels it is, or that he let her down) or his fault etc.

Maybe there is something here:

www.pandys.org/secondarysurvivors.html

ManStuff · 27/08/2015 23:31

Thanks skip. I know because I spend time with dd's friends but dh doesn't. The ones that were around when it happened I'm quite close to so they tell me themselves, I look all disapproving but inwardly high five them.

OP posts:
Morganly · 27/08/2015 23:31

Counselling is the answer. If the wait is 5 months, can you afford to go private?

I'm not sure telling him will make much difference. In fact it may compound his feelings of not protecting his daughter as other people have done what he has been unable to do.

Has your daughter had counselling, by the way?

ManStuff · 27/08/2015 23:39

Skip - her mental health is so much better, but honestly after years of crap not unrelated to to the above, It's up to her to bring it forward if she wants to, she's an adult.

Waffle, I'm a meditator myself, I've asked dh to join me several times, no joy Sad

OP posts:
ManStuff · 27/08/2015 23:45

No she hasn't morganly She had reams of CAMHS during her teens that she refused, mostly. I gave her numbers for rape crisis and WA when it all came to light but I don't think she used them.

She's ok, as it happens. After years of awful teen stuff, and I do mean AWFUL teen stuff, she's ok.

OP posts:
wafflyversatile · 27/08/2015 23:46

Maybe now he's conceded to going to the docs and counselling his attitude might soften? Just once. Give it a go. Maybe he'd feel more or less self-conscious with or without you there?

The top one on this list of hypnosis mp3 is about releasing guilt and fear, shame and regret. There are meditation ones too.

wafflyversatile · 27/08/2015 23:48

oh, sorry forgot the link!

www.hypnosisaudio.com/categories/solfeggio-meditations-58

ManStuff · 27/08/2015 23:57

Thanks waffly but he won't consider meditation. I'll use those links though, thanks!

I haven't as yet given him any ulitmatums. I can't imagine saying 'mediatate on this subject or I'm gone' lol.. It goes against all my meditation ethos.

OP posts:
wafflyversatile · 28/08/2015 00:03

Definitely make it clear that the hypnosis things are not meditation then! Grin

mrstweefromtweesville · 28/08/2015 00:08

Think outside the box, ManStuff.

goddessofsmallthings · 28/08/2015 03:33

Your poor dh! The male urge to protect his loved ones is as powerful as it is primitive and it defines a man as much as his gender. Your dh was unable to protect his dd when she was in greatest need of his physical strength and the fact that the law has failed her, but he cannot mete out his own form of justice to the youth who perpetrated such a heinous crime on his dd have combined to effectively demasculinise him and he's questioning his very identity, his value to his family, his use to society, his purpose for being.

Encourage him to talk to you about what he'd like to do to the oxygen thief who harmed his dd, allow him to express his fantasies in a open manner and join in with them if you can before very gently reminding him that if he were to act them out, his dd would suffer even more by him being deprived of his liberty - think of this as being an exercise whereby you're trying to implant an almost subliminal message in his brain and repeat it as often as you have patience for.

As I don't know anything about your personalities/state of your marriage/likes/dislikes/hobbies/how much time you spend together etc, the following are some of the strategies I'd adopt - reject any that don't resonate with you:

Think 'invalid' because he needs a period of convalescence to recover from the original and ongoing shock of finding himself to be invalid as in having no legal right or standing to obtain justice for his dd.

Wrap him in a blanket of love, but make it subtle rather than cloying. Buy/cook his favourite foods at least once a week but don't draw his attention to what's on the table -watch to see if he notices and only comment if he does. Use gestures to signify your love for him - greet him with a kiss, put your arms around him momentarily when he's standing still, rest your head on his shoulder if you're sitting on the sofa together.

Use your femininity to counteract the testerone fuelled inner rage he feels at his inabilty to 'do' anything that would ensure the cowardly little shit got/gets his just desserts. Dress with extra care, be slightly flirty/suggestive, give him come hither looks in a light hearted but meaningful way. Use your sexual relationship to reaffirm his manliness; revel in the maleness of him and let him know it.

Turn the tv off and distract him with board/card games, chess, darts, table tennis (if you've got the equipment). Look for articles in the news or books/art that will stimulate debate and, if possible, engage him in a project of some kind which will require him to flex his muscles and serve to tire him out. Tune into Classic FM, work your way through all of Mozart and Chopin's catalogues or listen to jazz/heavy rock/whatever is your bag.

Get him out into the fresh air as often as possible. Plan outings to places you've yet to visit, to timeless places such as rivers, forests, sea shores and to churches, buildings olde worlde inns that are steeped in history. If you can see the night sky from your garden, sit out on any remaining warm evenings and draw his attention to the eternal nature of the stars that have gazed down on this earth since its creation as he needs to establish a philosophy that will confirm his rightful place in the grand scheme of things and enable him to reach an accomodation with his weaknesses as well as his strengths.

Suggest he has a warm bath before bedtime and make him a cup of hot milk with a shot of whisky and a spoonful of sugar to drink in bed. If he continues to have difficulty sleeping, ask in Chat or on the General Health board for recommendations for over the counter products that will give him a good night's sleep, or get a prescription for mild sleepers from his GP. Also give consideration to anti-depressants to tide him over until he can be asssessed for counselling.

Be wary of telling him about the lads that have acted as vigilantes of sorts as it may inspire him to proposition one/all them to hit the fucker in more ways than one. If you intend to do so, present it as 'I heard that shitface got into a scuffle and came off worse - karma works'.

Bad things happen to good people and he needs to repeatedly hear 'it wasn't your fault' and 'there's nothing you could have done to prevent it' just as much as any other victim of serious sexual assault.

I feel so sorry for your dh. I want to give him a big hug and tell him that, although he will never forget the destabilising effect on his perception of himself occasioned by his dd's attacker, he will begin to recover his equilibrium in the not too distant future.

You may find this organisation helpful: www.pandys.org/secondarysurvivors.html

mathanxiety · 28/08/2015 04:07

I feel sorry for him too, but at the same time, what he is allowing himself to be sucked into is quite self centered and not necessarily helpful to DD. He is very stuck in the moment from three years ago and the moment he learned of what happened and that the 'justice system' would not do anything.

I would be inclined to try to direct his attention towards focus on how to help his DD move on. He needs to get a handle on his own response here. Ultimately becoming a casualty of this event himself means both you and DD will end up supporting him when DD is the one who needs her parents to set themselves and their own problems aside and be there for her.

If there is any sense in which your H feels that the rape of his DD was an affront to him as paterfamilias, he needs to talk about that and he needs to form a new and improved sense of who he is as husband and father and member of your family. Does she feel her hurt is only relevant to him because the rapist damaged 'property' of his?

He needs to ask himself how it would make his DD feel to see another man in her life use violence to achieve a goal or to solve a problem or to regain or gain control of a situation. Is she to understand that all men are like that? That this is the bottom line about men? Can she trust a man to choose a different path?

He needs to ask himself how he thinks that DD seeing him so disturbed by what happened and what did not happen (police, justice) will affect her. Will she feel she has ruined her father's life? Will she feel even more guilt about the rape than she as a victim already feels ?(most victims feel guilt). Will she feel she cannot approach her father with any future problems? Will she feel she must fill a role of comforter to him? He needs to move his own feelings away from front and centre here and always ask himself how he is helping his DD or if he is causing her problems.

I would urge your DH to talk to a family counsellor in your nearest Rape Crisis Centre. There is a specific context to this that needs to be fully understood by any counsellor he talks to, and therefore a Rape Crisis Centre would be the place to go, imo.

getyourgeekon · 28/08/2015 06:28

I agree with goddess that your DH needs specialist counselling and not just generic IAPT type stuff from the GP.
If private is possible then the best starting place is an advanced search on the BACP's site - www.itsgoodtotalk.org.uk/therapists
Otherwise he will be able to get some free counselling via organisations like rape crisis.

ManStuff · 28/08/2015 06:59

Goddess you pretty much climbed into my head and my marriage there right down to details like classic fm (well radio3 & the archers Grin) and we recently watched the meteor shower together. We have also had fantasy conversations about what he would do if the law wasn't an issue. I even offered to get him a gun once in an attempt to shock him out of it. He didn't take me up on my offer thankfully, not that I would have done it.

Math, I have said more than once 'it isn't about you'. I've got angry with him and explained that rape happens to a very large percentage of women and that for the most part we cope and move forwards because we have no other choice, I think this was news to him and it has compounded his anger. I don't think he sees his family as property, he is a good man, there are no issues of abuse or control. We have discussed how dd needs to see that not all men react with violence and this is what he is modelling but I suppose that is why he is struggling because there is a fight going on in his own head between the testosterone masculine urge to pulverise the little shit and his calm and gentle nature.

I think rape crisis is a good suggestion, I've mentioned it to him before but I don't think he has rung them, he feels that they are for the immediate victim, but I shall ring them myself to see if there is any help out there for families. There is no money for private counselling though, despite us both working at the end of the month there is nothing left.

Thank you for your thoughtful responses.

OP posts:
goddessofsmallthings · 28/08/2015 07:22

Rape Crisis was set up by women for women and is run by women consequently very few branches offer long term support for male victims of sexual violence, although some have set up support groups for relatives/friends of victims of either gender.

Nevertheless, make contact with your nearest Rape Crisis centre as they may be able to recommend organisations and/or independent counsellors who specialise or have expertise in supporting parents of victims.

The issues that math has raised are all valid but, to my mind, your dh should initially be encouraged to explore his anger and vent some of his inner rage at his powerlessness before they're presented to him as he may find some of the concepts challenging until he has developed trust in, and a rapport with, a counsellor.

Needless to say, it may place a strain on your marriage if you attempt to undertake the role of counsellor as well as comforter in this particular matter.

goddessofsmallthings · 28/08/2015 07:34

X-posted with you, OP. I very nearly added Radio 4 and the book at bedtime to my list of potential distractions. Smile I find Mozart moving and exhilarating, and Chopin transports me to another place altogether so they're my go-tos when my savage breast needs soothing and my spirit needs replenishing.

ManStuff · 28/08/2015 14:02

Thanks Goddess, distractions are lovely but I think dh needs to get beyond that to the root of it rather than firefighting the difficult feelings otherwise they may never go away.

I think he does feel emasculated, how does a man find his masculinity again the face of such impotence?

OP posts:
mathanxiety · 29/08/2015 05:35

'...explained that rape happens to a very large percentage of women and that for the most part we cope and move forwards because we have no other choice, I think this was news to him and it has compounded his anger.'

Is it possible that your DH lived up to the time your DD was raped with an idea, maybe never fully formed or maybe half baked, that only certain kinds of women engaging in certain sorts of behaviour get raped by certain types of men, and that the justice system is fair, and now that it has been revealed to him that those assumptions of his were substantially wide of the mark he is having a really hard time coping? Some people place a huge amount of stock in the idea that The System works and it shakes them to the core when something happens that challenges that.

Also, I really think finding his masculinity after somehow losing it through this crime and its aftermath should be low on the list of priorities right now. There is a little whiff of 'what about the menz?' here. I would be less inclined to be sympathetic to someone grieving a loss of his masculinity than to someone coming to grips with what women have known since the year naught, mainly because imo the loss of masculinity proposition harkens to the family honour sort of mindset that makes life so hard for so many women globally. At least coming to grips with reality from the women's pov would ultimately involve less self centeredness and the realisation that this is not about him.

springydaffs · 29/08/2015 18:01

I perfectly understand him wanting to beat the shit out of the rapist. Nothing to do with anything except a powerful urge to hurt the shit who hurt his daughter.

He can -

  • do it. Find the crud and beat the shit out of him. And face the consequences
  • find a way to beat the shit out of an inanimate object that represents the shit
  • get specific therapy to address his feelings

I don't think he's going to entertain that last one; and, anyway, he doesn't want to talk about it he wants to do it. So that leaves the first two. The inanimate object thing is surprisingly cathartic: baseball bat on the bed; kick-boxing etc. It helps if you can voice your feelings as you're doing it. Surprising what comes out. A few goes at that is really helpful (I once went on a week's residential therapy course where we did that in a group setting. They had huge cushions and we chose a print that represented who we were going to deal with that day. I can honestly say it was amazing, to my surprise. You feel silly at first but the rage takes over and you get to pulverise your abuser without going to prison. There really is a huge shift, a catharsis, a healing. I don't know if part of the healing/catharsis was others present to witness and support. We all had some dire stuff to deal with and all of us got significant release from that exercise). Drastic situations necessitate drastic measures imo. His body is probably crying out to release the hatred and revenge he understandably feels.

Or he could pulverise the shit and go to prison. He may feel it's worth it. It's his choice - which is what you alluded to when you offered to buy the gun, to give him choice.

mathanxiety · 30/08/2015 03:34

'I don't think he sees his family as property, he is a good man, there are no issues of abuse or control.'

I see that as far as he may have identified as a supporter of The System and may have felt that The System was about the Good Guys, including him, holding back the barbarians, this experience may have undermined that identity, since 'justice' is simply not there for his DD. I still wonder about the family as property element though not about abuse at all and I don't think the word is 'control', but is there an assumption that his family is an extension of him and an attack on one of the family that would normally and really should be avenged by The Good Guys (aka The System in which he had confidence and which he saw himself as an upholder of) is unbearable for that mixture of reasons?

But maybe it should also be asked whether he would be this distressed if DD had 'only' suffered a beating or a mugging or having her car stolen, etc. (Of course it has to be borne in mind that those crimes are far easier to prosecute than rape so he might not have ended up so terribly upset.)

spudlike1 · 30/08/2015 09:04

I have nothing to offer but sympathy and admiration for the love here. Maybe your daughter will seek out counselling in a few years time certainly that is how it worked for me. GODDESS your posts are wonderful

springydaffs · 01/09/2015 09:36

To want to protect/punish is signing up to the System?
I'd want to beat the shit out of the scum who raped my daughter and the lack of justice would send me loopy, too. As a woman, does that mean I'm signed up to the System? Or does it mean I have a visceral response to someone who hurt my loved one and i'd want the savage to pay for it. It's about justice I would've thought: do wrong, especially to someone I love who comes from my loins, and you pay the price.