I am a woman, how do I help my dh with this?

[ManStuff]

Name change, regular, bobble plate, penguin date, naice ham, now now Jeffrey etc.

I have name changed because of the sensitive nature of this post.

Dh is struggling with life. I don't have any male friends close enough to ask and he has only one close friend who knows some of it but has no answers.

Our daughter was raped when she was 15 by an ex boyfriend. There is absolutely no chance of justice, his word against hers, no evidence, time passed (3 years now), dd's mental health issues at the time making her an unreliable witness, the British justice system making it almost impossible to get a rape conviction etc etc.

This is killing him, he feels that the ex bf has got away with it scot free because he (dh) isn't allowed to deliver his own rough justice and thinks he's no kind of father because of his inability put things 'right' in the eyes of the law. Dh is a good man, kind, calm, considerate. This is the only thing in 25yrs that I have seen him get understandably worked up about.

Dd had moved on, I've moved on, but dh is stuck in a PTSD type response. He can't sleep, he says he can't stop 'doing' because then his head starts wanting to kill the ex boyfriend. Sometimes he goes two or three days without proper sleep.

I happen to know that the ex bf isn't getting away with it entirely. Kids being kids he's had a few smacks from people who know what he did (they're late teens, they go to bars). I don't condone this but should I tell dh, would it make him feel better do you think? Ex bf will always looking over his shoulder.

Ex bf was 16 at the time, 19 now.

Dh, after many months (years!) of persuasion had seen the GP today and got the number for counselling but it will be at leat another five months before he's seen.

Any words of wisdom would be welcomed.

Math makes good points. I find some of Goddess' suggestions deeply problematic, with their essentialism and ideas about the OP 'using her femininity' to counteract what seems to be viewed as a 'natural' testosterone-fuelled male response to a daughter's rape.

I'm so sorry that this happened to your DD, OP.

I am not sure I'm a good person to answer this. I can only really speak from personal experience, which is that a lot of rage and anger can stem from a feeling of powerlessness, and that the best 'cure' for that is to find ways of having a positive impact. It is easy when you have been a victim (as a family) to wallow in that, and to feel impotent and angry.

What happened happened and it was a tragedy that cannot be undone. No revenge (real or fantasy) can undo its impact. even if your DH were to go after this guy, it wouldn't achieve a damn thing except to tear your family apart further. However, there ARE things that can be achieved in the area of women, rape and DV. There are lots of organisations that are involved in helping people - perhaps volunteering for one of these would be therapeutic in terms of working through those feelings? It would also get him interacting socially, as loneliness and brooding can just intensify rage.

I imagine it would be better for op's DH if he supported men in a similar position to him. Or they got together and explored revenge fantasies supported one another with the rage and impotence; and perhaps worked towards getting legal redress if at all possible. Because I don't think soft skills would really cut it for this man if I'm honest.

Reading some of these responses, you'd think rage is wrong. And that would be because? Rage is fine, essential in some circs. It doesn't imo denote powerlessness necessarily but a primal desire for justice, of whatever kind. Perfectly balanced imo.

No -- I don't think I was clear there. Many people go through their lives believing that there is justice, until they realise that it doesn't always work like that for everyone. The system works pretty well for most people most of the time, or there would be revolution. When you are faced with a situation in which justice fails you or someone you love then it is harder if you have always believed the law was there for you, the baddies got their comeuppance, and good prevailed.

Confidence in the system gives you a feeling that you have power in your own life. Seeing a loved one raped and the rapist go free takes that away. Two people working full time but only breaking even at the end of the month can contribute to that.

I feel very sorry for your DH, but I am worried that his anger may be affecting you DD badly.

I was in a similar (well related, not exactly the same) when I was a teenager, and the thought of my DF's probable anger if he found out was a major factor in my not telling my DPS and not getting the help that I needed. Not because I thought it would be directed at me, but because it would have been a violent, out of control emotion and that was the last thing I could have dealt with.

What your DD needs most is to feel that her parents are capable of containing the situation - that they fully acknowledge the awfulness of her experience, but that, at a wider level, they are able to deal with it and life will continue. Your DH's continued extreme anger is the opposite of this.

I would also be worried that your DH's emotions may be overshadowing your DD's. She needs space to feel what she feels when she feels it, whether that's rage, hurt, guilt, or whatever. She is the person who has been made truly powerless here and who needs support to become as autonomous as possible. Ultimately this is about your DD not your DH and he needs to see this.

But I do feel very sorry for your DH and I think counselling is definitely the way to go - it's such a complex and personal situation professional help is really really useful. Could you go private? I would definitely be prioritising it over other expenses if you have any financial slack.

I also agree with mathsanxiety that this can hit men particularly hard because they sometimes (lucky them) get a long way through life without realising that women have to deal with this and the general injustice that exists in the world. Taking that all on board suddenly is genuinely extremely difficult. And I have plenty of experience of the wanting to take violent revenge side of things. But the bottom line is your DD needs to be hearing from him that she will be all right and that she can cope with the situation and he needs to sort his philosophy out so he can give her this message as quickly as possible.

I also agree with the hitting things idea, or, failing that, I would recommend hard exercise.

NB Whoops - I realise that your question was how to help your DH not your DD. I guess my point there is that if he can really take on board that anger is not the way to help your DD that will help him heal too.

Or maybe I just think your DD's needs are more important here (I may be projecting).

springy - I think it depends where the rage is directed. If it's towards survival and a positive channel, it's brilliant (and underrated in its power especially for women. We're not supposed to be ragey, are we? We're supposed to be all light, air, and control, facilitating other people's emotions not having our own!). But if it's channeled towards self-destructive behaviour or things that aren't actually helping the family cope with this trauma, it might not be so brilliant a thing.

I think you're spot on, simone. What you have said does help op's dd (imo. Though I appreciate this isn't about my opinion, only you can say if it is appropriate op). Perhaps it could give dh a different focus if he appreciates his response could be impacting dd negatively - especially when he has the power to impact dd positively.

(Though, personally, I can only dream of a father who would fight for me. It would be a huge plus for me if I had a father who reared up in my defence - at least at the outset iyswim...)

yy rage needs to be positively channelled but of itself it is NOT bad. It is a vast life force that can be channelled to great good; slapping social mores on top of it to dampen it down (through fear?) is imo at best missing a huge opportunity and at worst disastrous .

Is it possible that your DH lived up to the time your DD was raped with an idea, maybe never fully formed or maybe half baked, that only certain kinds of women engaging in certain sorts of behaviour get raped by certain types of men, and that the justice system is fair, and now that it has been revealed to him that those assumptions of his were substantially wide of the mark he is having a really hard time coping?

Yes, except he's known since shortly after I met him that I was raped, and that I wasn't exactly a nun before I met him and has never judged my history or equated it to my rape.

There is a little whiff of 'what about the menz?'

Yes. I can't tell you how many times I have got cross with him and told him it isn't about you

Springydaffs since I started this thread he has seen the GP and is now in contact with a counselling service. It's not a specialist service but it's a start so he's moving forward in that respect thankfully. He knows well the value of punching inanimate objects, martial arts are part of his past so I might well dig out the punch bag and put it up 'for myself' in the hope he might take my lead.

Haven't read all the new posts yet, I'll come back asap

I imagine it would be better for op's DH if he supported men in a similar position to him. Or they got together and explored revenge fantasies supported one another with the rage and impotence

I considered this at one stage but decided that unless the group supporting each other are made up entirely of intelligent, thoughtful men it would quickly descend into chest beating vigilantism. I'm not sure that there are any men's groups that don't end up like that if they're discussing such an emotive subject, are there?

I agree that rage is the appropriate emotion in this situation but going and killing the little fucker is not going to help anyone. Dd doesn't know (as far as I know) that her dad is still raging, he's not angry externally. He showed some initial anger when she first told him - and it's an interesting point that she told him before she told me - and since then he has supported her in terms of protecting her in whatever ways were possible like late night lifts, verbalised doubt about the safety of situations, doubts about the sincerity of some people etc. I'm not entirely sure this has helped in building her confidence but it has got her out of a sticky situation or two during her difficult times.

His rage is now so internalised that he has the insomnia, and during the night he creates (he's an artist) as an outlet. He also goes for long rides on his bike but he never never loses his rag in front of the kids. We only discuss it when she is out of the house or when we're shut in the bedroom and she's asleep downstairs.

I didn't expect this thread to be resurrected and thank you for your thoughts. I've told him I think it's important that he talks to a male counsellor, as I'm not sure a woman could understand entirely his situation, do you have any thoughts on that?

A facilitated group would keep things ultimately safe but allow the men to express their rage/hurt/impotence safely. ie within legal bounds, at least. And should stop vigilantism before they get out the door after each session. A counsellor is trained to create a safe space and shut it down again before the end of the session. If there isn't a group around for male relatives of rape victims, perhaps he/you two could set one up eg get some funding (...) to employ a facilitator, book a room; perhaps under the auspices of Rape Crisis. Or at least their funding, in part.

He's going to get some good art out of this then - ultimately? - if that's what he does to channel his unmanageable feelings. (that may seem like a cavalier or tactless statement but, as an artist myself, there is value in these things - and not just for him)

I should have thought a male counsellor was essential?

..a safe space to express the unthinkable, unpalatable, 'wrong', illegal etc.

Thanks Springy. That's interesting about the allowance to rage followed by a calming before the end of the session, I hope he gets a good counsellor, her has a phone assessment tomorrow but it may be a while after that before any sessions start especially as work restraints means his time slots are limited.

As for his art - yes, lots of good art. All dark, some angry, his most recent piece can only be described as a vengeant character in 3d which isn't a new thing for him but it was certainly more detailed. Nothing like a tortured soul when it comes to artists! I suppose I should be thankful he isn't an addict, a drinker or prone to hacking off his own ear in fits of angst .

SiminettaVespucci, you put it far better than I did.

Doh - SimOnetta

Op you're no longer blue - cap S needed at this juncture