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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Need some words of wisdom re new man and my own attitudes

79 replies

beaglesaresweet · 23/08/2015 02:38

I suppose it's a question re old 'head vs heart' dilemma, or head vs lust for that matter. Sorry it's going to be long and going round in circles, but I feel I need to get to grips with either the need to change myself, or to stick to my ideals (but are they as important as I think).
I've been single for a few years now and for a while been really keen to meet someone as while it's nice being free and single, I had enough of it now, I also feel I've learned a lot and would be a better partner to someone than previously (used to be too demanding of attention/emotionally, still not perfect but much better).
Anyway so for the last few years a few men that I could see myself with were not single - some showed interest in me but I wasn't going to get involved with a married man. I have quite a clear picture in my head as to what my OH should be, and hat includes not just personality but also compatibility on a social/intelligence level - and that is my current problem.
For the first time in ages someone got really interested in me (at least the signs are there that he is genuinely into me) who is free. He is separated and lived apart from the ex for two years, they will be divorcing once the house sells.
Anyway I do like him a lot. Firstly I really fancy him, and hat hasn't happened for a while with others. Secondly I like the fact he noticed me first and then has built up our contact and initiated helping me (met through work related activity) and just been openly interested and no games etc, but also respectful even though after I first invited him in on friendly basis he got a bit enthusiastic with texts and a little too ken - but that calmed down and is ok now. I also like that we share a strong interest related to work which is for both of us is quite a passion, not just work. He's also my age - again recent years it was interest from much older or younger guys (online and in rl).
We've moved on quite a bit after a few friendly meet-ups, and it's getting very steamy now (but I'm just managing to resist the actual DTD). I feel like once I go there, I'll really get involved and even fall for him but based on amazing physical compatibility. And the fact he likes me a lot generally. He told me jokingly I'm his perfect match and a future mrs, but then said I'm just joking when he saw my jaw dropping (this was back a few dates). We've been out too and he tends to treat me and take me out when we both have time, so it's not just the kissing. Last two dates were mainly us nearly having sex.
So what's the problem? He's not my 'picture' that's been in my head building up while I was single and not even the type I ve ever got involved with before - and I'm not sure whether it's silly to stick to one, or is it actually wise. Basically it's a difference in lifestyle, habits and education. I'm not from an elite class by any means but I've put a lot of time and effort into education on my favourite subject and I also an from an academic family so I've read a lot as a child. I like articulate men - he isn't! My exH was vey similar to me in tastes and was very articulate but the irony - we were not a good match sexually at all. He's intelligent but in a limited way - e.g. it's not much use voicing any concerns or hinting or using a metaphor even when it comes to our budding relationship - he doesn't get it or just ignores what I say and sort of goes on to something else. He's generally very unexpressive and I like hearing a man talk a bit of his feeling to me. But he is practically helpful. I'm just not feeling the strong romantic element myself. He does seem a genuine and warm hearted guy though I don't really know him yet - but judging from what he's like at work and with people generally. He already tried to introduce me to his friends on a second date - and told me he felt like boasting to then about me. I did say let's slow down - so he did listen but did introduce me t a few without warning so to speak. think this is lack of experience/intelligence, he's in his 40s!
Then it's his habits - he eats quite a lot of unhealthy food, his work is partly physical so I know he wants chips and sugary stuff but when I talked about it being concerned for his health. he is just dismissive ion a good natured way. I'm used to be quite fussy and with all the exes went to restaurants/cafes, he's a lot of beer in a pub man. I'm not at all saying it's wrong -he's a great guy in many ways, but he's not someone who would just change if someone told him to, not subservient, and I feel like I would hae to fall in with his habits more, especially as his social life is entirely centred around the pub and I'm new to the area so will be going along. Otoh I admire how he is part of a community (something I haven't seen much as I'm from london) and is liked and feels confident there etc.
His taste in entertainment/cultural stuff again are different (though we both like music).
Basically I'd love a friend like this, so it's not being snobbish. But in this case I happen to really fancy him (and he fancies me of course as he chased me) and it's very hard to resist and just stay friends. But the point I really really want an LTR so I don't want a fling (I can't do casual sex now or fwb) and I have to switch my head on before getting involved. I ve decided last time I saw him that I will be firm and kissing is as far it goes, but I already got carried away and got more involved the next time and pretty much having sex.
I also realise I've been feeling very lonely lately and such attention and attraction from an available guy is hard to resist. I feel like stopping it now is not quite justified, like my reasons sound feeble? BUt when I really step back and not see him for a few days, I think it's obvious that we are not going to work long term as breaking life time habits is so hard. But maybe I should completely open my mind? Or am I right to think that it's unrealistic for either of us to change and both are actually comfortable with their choices/tastes! But then I think - what of all the exes or dates I've been that hadn't led to anything lasting so far for all the other reasons (not a nice person, attraction not strong enough) that this guy has?
The problem is also a complete lack of decent single guys of the cultured sort of type that I like, it's this sort of age, the ones out there are invariably much older, plus I'm not perfect by far and those single wouldn't be jumping to get together with me necessarily. Even though a number of men still notice me, I'm not in a stable group where I meet many people so something can build up. It's hard. And I need my OH to be a good reliable person, and this guy is likely to be that. I just don't know - I wish I could take it much slower but whether knowingly or not he got me really going physically now and I feel pushed to make a decision soon one way or the other. Maybe he is more clever than I think in the sense of influencing someone - I thought the way he sounded confident that I was his match was a bit cocky but what if he is actually right.
Whoever had the patience to read - you are a saint!

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springydaffs · 24/08/2015 03:09

*stimulated ffs

beaglesaresweet · 24/08/2015 13:09

yes, trackbird, he is a bit bossy which I don't really like - especially as our tastes are different, what I mean is he is sort of wanting me to fall in with his tastes though he doesn't do it bluntly or with disrespect. But as our tastes/habits aer so different, and we aren't just going to fall in with each other naturally - that's hte problem, I won't be bossed about. He knows by now that I'm quite a strong character so he is taking a very soft approach, and obviously I voiced a few things were I'd prefer him to fallin with me - so it goes both ways so far. But really he is a nice guy and liked by may others.
Also it sounded OTT as if he doesn't want to get to know me - he does, but it's in those areas that relate to him - not just sexual. He asks what I like watching for example but when he hears I like X, he tries to pursuade me that watching (crappy) movies with a bottle of wine on sofa is hos favourite thing and tried several times to invite me - so he sort of ignores it but it's all done kindly and tbh many women would be happy with that. We aer just different.
He's similar at work (and I quizzed him a bit, but also saw him there anyway) - he is a sort of manager so tell people that things should be done in the way he likes it but it's still done on a friendly way and he wouldn't push someone, just complain if they don't do it (or go grumpy). He also swears when driving - but it's always at other men. Otoh he is a very caring son and father so it seems to be he's very nice to those close.
I don't agree re his ex - I know she is actually a heavy drinker so he has the right to say it (also I did ask why they have split up). My mother's second H was a drinker and I know they can be horrible, so why should he pretend otherwise. She was even violent to him a fewtimes, he never was. He does care very much about his son, the ex has been with someone else since anyway so I don't see why he should care about her more than how it affects their son (he's quite grown-up, working but still young).

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beaglesaresweet · 24/08/2015 13:27

springy, yes maybe you are right that he is all about boosting his ego (I thought about that) but it's not quite as bad as you describe. He's not completely uninterested in anything around him - he loves his work and the mutual interest we have is relating to that so that's one of things he likes about me. We can chat on that anytime and not get bored - but it's all very limited, and also his understanding of things is limited, often he just wouldn't listen to any other views once settled. But he is not unintelligent, and he is a hard worker/organiser. I do still think it's all about him (not that I can say honestly that I'm not at all selfish though!). It's like I'm his ticket to something nicer and exciting - but this could also be meant genuinely, i.e. he would also do his best to make me happy. It's just his way of making me happy may be not what I want/used to. He does try to please - I probab;ly didn't put that across well, with all the offer to help around the house whe n he visits, again work related help, also when I said I want to go slower re jumping into bed he was very reassuring that he's very happy to wait. It's just I think he's determined to get what he wants and happy to go along but I do also feel he likes me a lot and is possibly panicking that if he puts a foot wrong, I'l scarper.
I don't quite like the minor fibs though. He slightly lied about his age (why?? he is a tiny bit older than me), literally lied by a few years but I caught him out. Also when I first met him he told me he was married to his job - I assumed that really meant he was divorced/a bachelor. He said he lived alone. It only transpired when I asked later, that he is still married, though ok they ve been living apart for nearly two yrs. Why the slightly misleading omission if he knew I'd find out soon enough? I've been very upfront about my divorce well before I asked him. Possibly he was just worried to scare me off with anything at all. The good thing is, he knows I'm 'clever' meaning I can see through stuff sooner or later, but as you say, I'm softened hugely by his helpfullness and the sexual connection.

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ravenmum · 24/08/2015 13:46

You wouldn't go for the option of just having some fun times in bed with this guy and seeing what happens?

beaglesaresweet · 25/08/2015 19:32

raven, no I'm just not cut out for 'fun times in bed' as I get involved mentally too much. I prefer to know the guy for a while and see if there is real potential and what he's like as a person first of all. I used to jump in bed on impulse but it's never ended well.

springy, btw not at all, if anything it's him who decided we'll be having a relationship, I was thinking he wasn't for me long term to start with but I'm being sucked in a bit by the sexual side and his general efforts. When I'm away from him I'm beset with doubt, but when with him, I sort of weaken a lot.
I'd still love the advice of how to slow down after going as far as we have what with all the nearly-sex last weekend as I don't want to just dump him/stop the friendship, and I still fancy him, and he is still optimistic. I really think I need to reverse or at least cool it somehow. I'm also worried he will mention me as gf at is workplace where I'm a regular client and this would be then embarassing if I turn up and everyone gossips (before I had a chance to really decide). It's really only been few weeks of actual dating. He's now introduced me to his son (I didn't know he was about to do it but happened at his work - not as a gf but still he is probably guessing or will ask later), how do I then let it be known that we are only so far seeing how things go and not even sleeping together, though loosely=speaking we are lovers - that's what I don't like about him too.

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ravenmum · 26/08/2015 08:08

Shame, beagles Smile as it sounds hard to resist the temptation. But if you feel pressured that may not be a great sign ... What about him, does he want a long-term relationship?

How to slow it down? I guess you'd have to make him aware that you want to go really slow. Not using metaphor, if that doesn't work. Maybe something like "I want to take it slow because this is serious to me"? Then only arrange dates in very public places with a table separating you?!

beaglesaresweet · 26/08/2015 11:10

raven, I don't really know what he wants as he feels I'm stalling and wouldn't now be that open about his plans but he did say at the start he sees me as a 'future mrs' as a joke and generally said he hasn't been interested in anyone for a long time, I'm special etc, so in principle, yes, he wants ltr, plus introduced me to some friends and sort of tries at work to show we aer very friendly (I asked him not to tell anyone yet but I think he may have done), so I'm definitely not just a sex object but we've only been dating a few weeks and he agreed to 'let's see how it goes'. He knows I'm having some doubts but we didn't discuss it so he may not be as positive now.
I'm laughing to 'not using metaphor'! But yes after rolling around on sofa twice, it would be odd to sit across a table, he wouldn't understand that, will start asking 'why', and saying we don't have to go to bed as such (but doing everything as close to that as poss). What do I say if he says 'why?' - I don't want to mislead him saying I'm very seroius about it when actually I don't really see it working long term. I sort of voiced it once (do you think this could work?) without going into my reasons, and he said yes, why not, will be fine. What do you say to that?
The thing is, I'm pretty sure now I want to reverse into just friendship as I can resist easier when there is some distance and no late night dates with wine/beer (even though he still attracts me anyway) , but I think he'd be too upset and may not want to be friends, that would be genuinely sad. Maybe not sad for long. I've seen him being quite temperamental a couple of times (work related) so that also is putting me off, but if he is like that with me I may latch on to that as a reason. I still like him though as a person overall so it's not about saying he's bad or that I'm better.

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ravenmum · 26/08/2015 11:57

Sounds like you have made your mind up, then, and basically need an exit route? How about just being honest and saying you're really sorry - you're sorely tempted, and that's why you've found it hard to resist, but you want something long-term and you just don't think you're similar enough for that to work. No need to go into detail, just keep repeating that you don't have much in common. You've already given him a bit of a warning so it won't come as too much of a surprise...

beaglesaresweet · 26/08/2015 12:54

thanks, raven, do you think it's likely he would want to stay friends? I don't know if I m ready to just stop seeing him - it's bee nnice in many ways. I could go on for a bit longer while repeating to him that I don't want to rush into a full relationship, in a way we are both single and no one atm offering him to go out, so maybe it's not too bad towards him to do that? why can't we enjoy each other's company minus the sex? do you think a man would agree to this especially if he does fancy someone a lot?

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beaglesaresweet · 26/08/2015 12:54

I sort of made up my mind, but still having niggles that maybe I'm wrong.

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ravenmum · 26/08/2015 13:08

In my experience men are more into sex without a relationship than a relationship without sex (when only one thing is available) ... and you're both keen, surely it would just be too tempting!

ravenmum · 26/08/2015 13:10

Like you say, maybe you're just sick of being single, and it's that making you dither?

beaglesaresweet · 26/08/2015 14:11

yeah I know, but I is he then likely to just want to be friends (not relationship with no sex)? I'm dreading that conversation already. I think I will see him again as normal but avoid getting too close and then build up to that over a couple of meet ups. We are due to go on a day out, so don't want to cancel that. Thankfully he has a few things on over the weekend so I may stretch it a bit. Yes I agree it's me not being sick of being single but also I don't fancy men right left and centre so it's special to me in that way, and he's a good bloke generally.

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beaglesaresweet · 26/08/2015 14:12

being, not 'not being sick'.

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beaglesaresweet · 26/08/2015 14:13

I can't help but feel guilty and a little bad about it. Is this not a sign that I shouldn't decide yet?

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IrenetheQuaint · 26/08/2015 14:24

It's natural to feel guilty and a bit bad when you're working up to dumping someone, I don't think that means anything.

To be honest it sounds like you've made up your mind (and in your position I'd make the same decision), so stringing him along is not very kind, especially when he's so keen on you.

VeganCow · 26/08/2015 14:35

It will be you doing the compromising as you have already sussed out. The footbally type pub twice a week would also put me off completely. I dont think he can offer all you need, only some of it. And the rest of it is totally opposite to your personality type. I bet theres far more you would change about him than he would change about you.

beaglesaresweet · 26/08/2015 14:37

ok I agree, Irene, thanks. I didn't see it as stringing him along as I kept saying 'let's not rush into anything', 'it's early days' etc, I mean everyone has a right to change their mind within a few weeks of dating - it's just he doesn't seem to be bothered about these comments, so next time I see him I'll be cooler so he really notices, and then build up to it. The fact I still want to stay friends makes it hard, it's not like dumping and not seeing them again. Any advice on how to soften it so that he still speaks to me afterwards?

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beaglesaresweet · 26/08/2015 14:40

you aer probably right, Vegan, I just don't believe any partner can offer all you need, and the offers I had over last few years were not just worse but not real (i.e. from married men or those I don't fancy), but yes, I need to look at it with a cooler attitude not just 'go along with the best offer so far'.

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springydaffs · 27/08/2015 13:09

You seem in such a pickle about what you want. In life?

Is there any reason you know of that could have contributed to you not being at all sure what you want, what your priorities in life are. I appreciate being confused about dating but, tbh, it's no different to anything else: you know what you want and what you don't want; you don't accept what you don't want. That's it.

I get it all this is clouded because you're loins are jamming the airwaves. Fear of being along for ever and ever also puts a lot of pressure on making decisions. But you'd do well to accept what you want, regardless the circs - especially in dating tbh.

He's putting a lot of pressure on you, is all over you like a rash, popping up here, there and everywhere. I'd not like that, personally - one thing that is important to me is that people respect my boundaries. You have made it clear what you clearly don't want, yet he's gone ahead and ignored clear boundaries. That would be a dealbreaker for me.

You're afraid of hurting his feelings - but what about your feelings? Don't they count? It doesn't sound as though your feelings count to you. YOu want an equal relationship with an adult at your side. He's not behaving like an adult and you're already feeling guilty/taking care of his feelings. If you don't want to be in a relationship with him, you don't. That's it. You don't have to come up with any reasons.

beaglesaresweet · 27/08/2015 14:22

thanks springy. I'd say my problem is, I do know what I want and I can posture a suitable LT partner easily enough - I also recognise them when I see such men (not single ones), but I'm just not meeting anyone like that who is also available and who I fancy. So really it's down to lack of options. I'm now getting to know this guy better and I agree now that he comes across as a bit of a boy in his personal life (like a young guy would begave) - but I've met him originally at his workplace where he is an organiser and is responsible and reliable (he even looks older at work but changes into a young 20s style in clothes and some behaviour when not at work as if he's stuck in his youth when it comes to social/dating). Maybe i's because he hasn't dated much and was married for many years (no idea whether he had an OW or not as the marriage was bad for a long time).
Yes he has been putting pressure but not so much now - he's tired at work and senses I'm stalling so he's pulled back a bit. My dilemma is, I still think he's great in many ways AS A FRIEND or someone to chat to, and we have work interest in common - I'm also going to be seeing him regularly in any case (even though don't have to chat but it would be quite sad/awkward when I'm at his work place as customer), so I didn't want to just be blunt and stop tallking to him.
And yes, the dilemmaremains as to where to meet the right man, but I now feel calmer sexually about him so you aer right, I shouldn't settle as it will only get worse. We seem to get on very well but not when it gets closer (and he's showing 'telling me what to do' traits' which I can't stand).

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springydaffs · 27/08/2015 17:34

Telling you what to do? In what way?

btw I was in a relationship (marriage) with a very disordered man. It's not accurate to say his dysfunction had nothing to do with me - in one sense it really did have nothing to do with me but in another it indicated where I was at when I met him: that I would accept what were clear warning signs. I had my own history of disordered family relationships and it was not out of the norm that I met and married someone like that; it didn't come from nowhere.

I say this because of his wife. She may be a lush but these relationships don't happen in isolation. I am NOT suggesting he deserved it, or blaming him in some way, but just it could indicate some form of dysfunction/damage in him - iyswim?

Who doesn't have some form of dysfunction/damage though! I don't want to be alarmist but many women in abusive/controlling relationships turn to the bottle (or eating disorders, shopping etc: addictions). This may or may not be the case with his wife - impossible to tell - but it's not on to make out it has nothing to do with him, see above.

IrenetheQuaint · 27/08/2015 18:43

Good luck. Remember though that he doesn't owe you friendship after you've dumped him - he may not want to be your friend and that's totally his call to make.

beaglesaresweet · 27/08/2015 18:58

yes I agree, springy, I especially find it a bit alarming that he stayed in the marriage for 20yrs if he seriously hated her drinking. Mind you the serious driniking bouts were not frrequent but very heavy once in a couple of years, if it was weekly I'm sure he would have left before. But yeah, I wouldn't have put up with so why did he? Either it was just for the sake of the dc or it suited him in some way.
thanks, Irene. He's now opened up to me that he had issues at work and now he's talked to the boss at last - so he def sees me as a friend, I hope it may not die if I put a stop to the relationship, I'm still not ready to cut it off today. I'm going away for a week next week so I don't want to spoil his and my weekend with any bomshells, but when I'm back (and distance helps) I may feel brave.

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beaglesaresweet · 27/08/2015 18:59

bombshells

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