Need some words of wisdom re new man and my own attitudes

[beaglesaresweet]

I suppose it's a question re old 'head vs heart' dilemma, or head vs lust for that matter. Sorry it's going to be long and going round in circles, but I feel I need to get to grips with either the need to change myself, or to stick to my ideals (but are they as important as I think).
I've been single for a few years now and for a while been really keen to meet someone as while it's nice being free and single, I had enough of it now, I also feel I've learned a lot and would be a better partner to someone than previously (used to be too demanding of attention/emotionally, still not perfect but much better).
Anyway so for the last few years a few men that I could see myself with were not single - some showed interest in me but I wasn't going to get involved with a married man. I have quite a clear picture in my head as to what my OH should be, and hat includes not just personality but also compatibility on a social/intelligence level - and that is my current problem.
For the first time in ages someone got really interested in me (at least the signs are there that he is genuinely into me) who is free. He is separated and lived apart from the ex for two years, they will be divorcing once the house sells.
Anyway I do like him a lot. Firstly I really fancy him, and hat hasn't happened for a while with others. Secondly I like the fact he noticed me first and then has built up our contact and initiated helping me (met through work related activity) and just been openly interested and no games etc, but also respectful even though after I first invited him in on friendly basis he got a bit enthusiastic with texts and a little too ken - but that calmed down and is ok now. I also like that we share a strong interest related to work which is for both of us is quite a passion, not just work. He's also my age - again recent years it was interest from much older or younger guys (online and in rl).
We've moved on quite a bit after a few friendly meet-ups, and it's getting very steamy now (but I'm just managing to resist the actual DTD). I feel like once I go there, I'll really get involved and even fall for him but based on amazing physical compatibility. And the fact he likes me a lot generally. He told me jokingly I'm his perfect match and a future mrs, but then said I'm just joking when he saw my jaw dropping (this was back a few dates). We've been out too and he tends to treat me and take me out when we both have time, so it's not just the kissing. Last two dates were mainly us nearly having sex.
So what's the problem? He's not my 'picture' that's been in my head building up while I was single and not even the type I ve ever got involved with before - and I'm not sure whether it's silly to stick to one, or is it actually wise. Basically it's a difference in lifestyle, habits and education. I'm not from an elite class by any means but I've put a lot of time and effort into education on my favourite subject and I also an from an academic family so I've read a lot as a child. I like articulate men - he isn't! My exH was vey similar to me in tastes and was very articulate but the irony - we were not a good match sexually at all. He's intelligent but in a limited way - e.g. it's not much use voicing any concerns or hinting or using a metaphor even when it comes to our budding relationship - he doesn't get it or just ignores what I say and sort of goes on to something else. He's generally very unexpressive and I like hearing a man talk a bit of his feeling to me. But he is practically helpful. I'm just not feeling the strong romantic element myself. He does seem a genuine and warm hearted guy though I don't really know him yet - but judging from what he's like at work and with people generally. He already tried to introduce me to his friends on a second date - and told me he felt like boasting to then about me. I did say let's slow down - so he did listen but did introduce me t a few without warning so to speak. think this is lack of experience/intelligence, he's in his 40s!
Then it's his habits - he eats quite a lot of unhealthy food, his work is partly physical so I know he wants chips and sugary stuff but when I talked about it being concerned for his health. he is just dismissive ion a good natured way. I'm used to be quite fussy and with all the exes went to restaurants/cafes, he's a lot of beer in a pub man. I'm not at all saying it's wrong -he's a great guy in many ways, but he's not someone who would just change if someone told him to, not subservient, and I feel like I would hae to fall in with his habits more, especially as his social life is entirely centred around the pub and I'm new to the area so will be going along. Otoh I admire how he is part of a community (something I haven't seen much as I'm from london) and is liked and feels confident there etc.
His taste in entertainment/cultural stuff again are different (though we both like music).
Basically I'd love a friend like this, so it's not being snobbish. But in this case I happen to really fancy him (and he fancies me of course as he chased me) and it's very hard to resist and just stay friends. But the point I really really want an LTR so I don't want a fling (I can't do casual sex now or fwb) and I have to switch my head on before getting involved. I ve decided last time I saw him that I will be firm and kissing is as far it goes, but I already got carried away and got more involved the next time and pretty much having sex.
I also realise I've been feeling very lonely lately and such attention and attraction from an available guy is hard to resist. I feel like stopping it now is not quite justified, like my reasons sound feeble? BUt when I really step back and not see him for a few days, I think it's obvious that we are not going to work long term as breaking life time habits is so hard. But maybe I should completely open my mind? Or am I right to think that it's unrealistic for either of us to change and both are actually comfortable with their choices/tastes! But then I think - what of all the exes or dates I've been that hadn't led to anything lasting so far for all the other reasons (not a nice person, attraction not strong enough) that this guy has?
The problem is also a complete lack of decent single guys of the cultured sort of type that I like, it's this sort of age, the ones out there are invariably much older, plus I'm not perfect by far and those single wouldn't be jumping to get together with me necessarily. Even though a number of men still notice me, I'm not in a stable group where I meet many people so something can build up. It's hard. And I need my OH to be a good reliable person, and this guy is likely to be that. I just don't know - I wish I could take it much slower but whether knowingly or not he got me really going physically now and I feel pushed to make a decision soon one way or the other. Maybe he is more clever than I think in the sense of influencing someone - I thought the way he sounded confident that I was his match was a bit cocky but what if he is actually right.
Whoever had the patience to read - you are a saint!

I also feel I've learned a lot and would be a better partner to someone than previously (used to be too demanding of attention/emotionally, still not perfect but much better).

I missed that bit.

I'may sorry OP but some of the things that you describe show that you are still demanding, wanting to mould people into your way.

You dont sound like a good match. When initial sexual intensity wears off, what will be left? It is the day-to-day, the conversations, the hobbies you do etc.

Also going into a relationshio thinkong it will be ol if he changes really means it is not going to work.

Finally, you seem a little really, really controlling.

Poor bloke. Let him loose.

Agree with Lightbulb

Also, as other posters have said, what irritates you now will be magnified 1000% if you become a couple.

Tear up the list though...no-one will meet all your criteria. Think about the three things that are most important to you and go with that.

Get out there and meet lots of people, not as potential husband material but as friends.

When initial sexual intensity wears off, what will be left? It is the day-to-day, the conversations, the hobbies you do etc.

Is this the Mumsnet version of Captain Corelli's Mandolin?

You think he's not good enough for you. Bottom line.

DH and I are not very alike in many ways. I am educated to a higher level than him, through no fault of his own. I think more, he does more. Our tastes in media, tv, films etc are often miles apart. It's worked out great for many years. We complement each other.

I wouldn't like to be in a relationship with you. There is nothing wrong with having high expectations of behaviour in a partner, but you are veering into controlling and sound like you would try to change his fundamental personality.

He's not the one for you, and vice versa.

I vote for shagging him till the differences between you start grating then reassessing what you have. I am a posh Radio Four type into health food and I have a lovely man who likes takeaways and never went to Uni. He has been so good for me and is kind, funny practical and hardworking. Give him a chance to persuade you but don't try to change him into something he isn't.

If you need convincing then don't go there.

There is little to no point commencing a relationship with someone you feel is beneith you.

He sounds lovely for someone else.

Until you said you couldn't have sex without becoming emotionally involved, and didn't want casual, I'd have said go for it on a fuck buddy basis (if he wanted that too obviously) and see what develops. I wouldn't recommend starting an emotional relationship with him because I bet that once the initial lust has worn off his differences will possibly grate on you, and that's unfair on him.

If you have to make lists, and analyse things to this extent, you are with the wrong person.

Thank you to everyone for the replies, I honestly thought I won't get many. I really am not arrogant or controlling of him, I knew my post will come across like that to some and expected not to be liked for it.
I thought I did explain (but it came across all wring to some posters) that it's me who'd have to compromise more if we went into a full on relationship. I'm sure I said this but people misinterpreted that I was expecting to change/control him. Also major part of my OP was about maybe havbing to change my attitudes towards men who aer not my 'usual type'. It was definitely not about advise on how to control or change him. I mentioned that he;s not a subservient type not because that's what I'm after - I don't believe people cab change their daily habits and tastes aged over 35, if not even younger! What I meant was, there are some subservient men who would want to adapt to new partner - but usually it's those who are not happy in their life. I did say he was happy as he is and not that type (I wouldn't go for a passive man who'd all lost and spineless and would adapt to any woman who takes them on), that's NOT a bad thing! I was only saying it to say that either neither of us will change or that I will have to compromise a lot.

I really have no wish to change him or lead him on - that's partly why I 'm not having DTD with him yet even though he was ready a while ago. I need to see whether I can change my views and be able to fit onto his life, but that's what I doubt.

Regarding the pub - no it's not the middle class real ale and conversation - it's beer and football (but he draws a line at pork scratchings ) - and no it's not lawyers, doctors etc ( tp the poster who said it's not the 7th hell). I ve been to his local - it's nice and busy and no hell at all, but I would find it very boring on twice weekly basis (which he does) - plenty of happy folk there and no one is looking down on them, it's just DIFFERENT to me previous 40+ yrs of habits. I didi always go to pubs now and then, but more peaceful ones with no blaring football usually, it's not the pub itself, it's hte company - not him per se as we do have things in common but generally people talk about stuff I have no knowledge or interest in.

I'll reply to more posts a little later (some really helpful).

TopOfTheCliff, my thread was partly to hear from someone like you who has a successful relationship with a partner who's different culturally - I'd love to hear more as to how it developed and did you ever have doubts? I get your point that a good person is a treasure, but I'm worried about the daily life - as a few posters pointed out (thanks, you got it!)

Regarding his diet - I'm only worried about his health (eve nif I was just a friend) - he said himself today that he eats too much fatty foods - it's just he works it off, but also I wasn't at all going to tell him not to do it - I'm just thinking how on earth will it work daily - are we going to eat different things in different places? buy food separately? it's purely that (and his health).

Haha, it was me that said pubs aren't the 7th circle of hell. But, tbh, if he's of the shaved head, England shirt and carling ilk, then I might revise it

It does sound as though you are incompatible on every level though.

This sounds a bit like my H. We were very different. I didn 't go to Uni (haven't even got A levels shock horror) - needed to earn a living very early due to home life. But I've educated myself and I like talking about ideas. I like words, and discussions.

My H was expelled from school at 13 and was functionally illiterate. Hadn't worked for 20 years due to a back injury. Had a big chip on his shoulder about education to the point where he wouldn't come to DS's parents evening.

He had significant hearing loss so didn't enjoy music. I spent a lot of my time wishing I had some ear plugs because the TV was always so loud.

We connected sexually on a level I'd never known before, and we had absolute rock solid trust. That's why I married him, and thought other things were unimportant.

Eventually those other "unimportant" things became insurmountable. We couldn't sit and have a conversation about anything apart from our little lives, because if I used a word he didn't know, he'd accuse me of "using big words to make out I'm thick." If he couldn't follow what I was saying, he'd either change the subject, attack me, or just dismiss it with "it's all a total load of rubbish and a waste of time." Our approaches to parenting were poles apart.

When we went out, conversation basically had to revolve around him telling stories about things he had done years ago. If I told a story about my past, he would mansplain it to me. If I tried to talk about something in the news, he would dismiss it or become agitated. If I tried to talk about my career, he would be totally out of his depth and would get snarky quite quickly.

Sorry didn't mean to go on for so long. But from the things you said in your OP, the signs are already there. Dismissing or ignoring you if he's not following you - for me that's unlivable.

You don't have to have the same interests or approaches to have a successful relationship - taste in music, books, films, TV, clothes and hobbies really don't matter much, but if you can't connect and converse with each other in a meaningful way, what have you got?

What pocketsaviour said... I could have written that more or less word for word about my ex.

I think people sometimes over-egg the checklist of demographic compatibility (having to have same taste in books, films etc before you get through the door). You can have a really deep and long-term connection with someone who is utterly different from you.

But if these things are irritating you and making you question the relationship this early on when the sexual attraction is this good you have to think about what they will be like it's worn off.

In a way its irrelevant whether you're right to be judging his habits and tastes etc or whether you're a snob or not. If something doesn't feel quite right you shouldn't ignore this.

You like to hear a man talk to you about what he feels for you, he said he thought you were compatible for a deeper relationship - and instead of saying 'what makes you feel that?' in a curious, 'tell me more' sort of way, your jaw dropped and he was given a strong signal to shut up!

Is it really his fault if he holds back now?

I may be that you are not in the end compatible - or that your mutual respect and liking and sex life can grow you enough confidence and love to find that you are. But at the moment you are looking at him through the perspective of your 'list', the perspective of past relationships, second guessing everything.

Either you are panicking about something, in which case just relax, take him as he is, be who you are and give each other a chance, or be honest with yourself and whether you are just trying to justify the fact that you really aren't into him but are trying t squeeze either one of you into a fantasy where you might be because you want a relationship.

Just reading your reply OP. Why would you have to go along to the pub with him all the time? Isn't it good to have things you do separately? I think as you eat together then both people adapt to meals. You can maybe turn his unhealthy foods into healthier versions?

I think things can work. I think you need to either just take that leap of faith and see if you enjoy it or not. Maybe you'll find you are being open to another way of doing things?

Fundamentally though isn't it more important to think: we are morally in the same place. We think the same about family and relationships and being together? For me that would be when I had to say this isn't going to work.

I think you are asking too many questions about it too early about things that maybe for me anyway aren't the make or break things. They are things that make us who we are and diverse and individuals.

Me and Dh dont have much in common and have rubbed along ok for 16 years. He tends to do his own thing and I do mine. I like having that space.

When we were first dating I used to go and watch and even get involved a bit in his hobby/sport which he takes very seriously. But it bored me a bit and the novelty of watching him do it soon wore off. So now he does his thing and I go cycling or dog walking. Or stay home and read or watch TV.

I suppose in a perfect, ideal world Id have met a bloke who liked cycling and dogs. But I still love Dh and am quite happy.

I think you need to go with the flow, have some mind blowing sex. Go down the pub sometimes with him but do other stuff without him as well.

Looks like you are getting a 50/50 ish split here OP. I don't think you are looking down your nose at him, you know your own mind that is all and being brutally honest. I do agree 100% with the line from Bulb earlier though.
The nice bits about him you are seeing through rose tints and the rest you are seeing the reality. Don't shag him. Distance a bit and have a bit of space and then tell him you think it would be best if you stayed friends only, This is lust only making you think there is a chance. There is no chance this will work. You should be feeling way different to the way you are. You are feeling like you are because your gut is telling you the truth. Long term, trying to interact with someone that is not as switched on as you to puns, witticisms and current affairs (not as intellectual as you are if you will) will drive you mad if that is part of what you want. For others on here it is not important. For you, it is. I run mental rings around my DH sometimes and am often way ahead of him on some subjects and get a bit frustrated if I am honest but he amazes me in other ways and so there is balance for us. You mention no balance and that is part of why I say what I say.

How would you feel if you introduced him to your friends. Don't answer on here, just feel the feeling and let that speak to you. If you feel your friends are your type of people and he wouldn't fit in, this feeling will only get worse long term. It's a real pisser if you want to bonk him though but don't, it will make it far harder to back out of without causing hurt.

Thanks, Sick. I felt after reading your post like that's what I really wanted someone to say 'don't shag him'. I've started the thread just after coming back from his yesterday because I came within an inch of going further and we pretty much did shag. It really clouds my thinking and as you say. puts the rose tints on, but how do I now pull back without stopping seeing him? I do like him as a person and we just get on, but I feel it would be odd to say to him 'I don't want to roll around on the sofa anymore' after a couple of steamy sessions - he will know I still want to so how will I explain myself without talking as frankly as on here?
pocket, yes, that's the point, it's unlikely to work long term. I wonder, has your amazing sexual connection dwindled as well as a result? I must say 'my' guy isn't as bad as your H. He's not bullying like that, but he does have slightly sexist habits (more superficially speaking) - like when we say good buy he sort of slpas me on the hip - told him (nicely) not to do that, he is also sometimes slightly bissy as in arranging things as it fits with his moivements, but otoh he also asks how to help me etc (esp with physical work).
Also we do have something to talk about which we share - our work/work-related stuff. Also we get on just chatting on silly subjects, but what's missing is anything deeper or really other subjects. I asked him a lot about his past/parents/ex/son, but he didn't ask much about me, though when I volunteer he listens, but never goes into deeper questions or even really shows a lot of interest - though maybe he's just a feeling/practical type who prefers to be in the moment rather than analyze someone. But I do feel like while for now we are ok talking on the mutual interest, he's sort of a bit immature and superficial mentally, he wouldn't even watch the news much and when I try any subject that he's not that keen on he just sort of falls silent - I don't think it's nice, it's quite bossy in a way (even if not meant badly). But he is a good guy, I feel, caring if he sees someone as important to him. But again it's not like he's the only one out there? I just didn't seem to haev any luck with dating for a few years, either I don't fancy them or they are not single - so it's exciting to me (when I say dating, it means not even as far as flings). I would just be more romantically excited if someone was more sensitive/ more intelligent/interested in thing (doesn't need to be hugely so) - but what if I'm never goin gto meet someone like that and who is also interested in me? I can say for sure that if he was the last man on earth I'd feel extremely lucky to have him as he's miles better than many of my recent options who I didn't even fancy, but if he was put next to one of these non single guys I liked - no, I'm excited about them more (but of course it's how they appear).
He's acting very enthusiastic because really we do get on, so I dread to say to him 'let's be friends', I'm not sure I'm ready to give up on the kissing and the whole feeling of having a close friend. It does all sound pathetic.
TheFolk, no he's not quite an England short type - good taste in clothes actually, but lots of beer ( and yes football but that's the case with lots of Brits).

daisychain, yes you were spot on on the page one of thread. Exactly what I'm worried about - I'm starved of nice male hands after a long spell of singledom but I'm not someone for whom the physical side dominates everything else, I wasn't even interested in sex much while being single (could have had casual sex), above all I want someone who cares and who I can enjoy conversing with, but obviously have to fancy, maybe not as much as this guy. It's an issue though that I haven;t met someone with all three.

Yes, probably not, IFancy, but I'm not against other compromises. I think it wouldn't be 'very unhappy'. more like 'not quite satisfied'.

LightBulb, yes, but I did have some offers of a relationship, I just didn't fancy those two guys. With him the fancying part is very strong so I'm not just grabbing anyone who offered. But then he told me he's been single for a while bar one 'meaningless' fling and he 'just wants some normality' - so in a way we are similar in wanting a relationship and getting excited about someone who's compatible in some way. I think he is just blind to incompatibilities because he is strongly attracted and sorry but it's a fact that I'm above the level of his exW (who was quite horrible as a heavy drinker - but also not very intelligent, it's his words + we share an interest which she didn't) - maybe he's aspirational a little bit? That plus attraction makes him brush away anything else.

bye, not 'buy', sorry I'm terrible at typing.

OK, now you've said a bit more about him, I'm tempted to warn you off.

If he thinks his ex wife is horrible, not very bright and a heavy drinker, that's not really a great sign. Marriages don't always work out, but making out that a former partner is awful or drunk when she is the mother of your child, is a warning.

You've mentioned other things that suggest he likes to be in control, and is not so bothered about the real you. He's showing mild sexism which you've had to warn him about. He's making sure your dates fit in with his movements. Falls silent if you talk about something that doesn't interest him, and doesn't ask much about you. He IS blind to incompatibility between you -because he's already described you as 'the perfect match' and 'future Mrs' when he didn't know you very well. And he isn't exactly trying to get to know you now, except sexually.

I think you've probably made up your mind to have a relationship with him anyway. If you do, stand your ground and don't fall in with him too much. He sounds as if he wants you to fulfil a role for him ('he just wants some normality') rather than taking much interest in you personally. And he sounds as if he likes to be in control. That doesn't always end well.

Maybe I'm overthinking as well, but I just feel uneasy at your later posts.

Actually, I think your radar is going off.

He slags off his ex, 'jokes' you'd be a good 'Mrs' practically from the off, is gagging to show his posh totty you off to his mates.

And you are both desperate to shag, which is clouding your judgement.

He's in his 40s. I grew up with men like that and they don't change. He shows no curiosity whatsoever to expand his world - except the macho conquest of a posh bird (and yes he will use the word bird quite seriously about women, and won't see anything wrong in it). You won't be intellectually simulated in this relationship.

There's only one way you're going to get simulated. He's on his very best behaviour now, remember. It's all downhill from here.