How have we allowed the air to leak out of our marriage? Is it over?

[isthisforty]

I wonder how many people are in this position, or a similar one.

Together for 15 years, married for 13, two DCs (11 and 8). For the last few years it feels like the air has just gradually leaked out of our relationship.

We don’t have big rows, there’s certainly no abuse, but neither of us seems to be getting much out of our relationship. It’s not really something that brings us much joy. Our sex life has kind of petered out to about once a month. We don’t really talk – we have superficial ‘how was your day’ chats, and conversations about practical things like a possible car purchase or holiday arrangements. We both have outside interests that the other doesn’t share. We have been on a few holidays as a family, but it’s more the case that one of us will take the kids somewhere and then the other will take them somewhere else. I tend to be a night owl and she tends to go to bed early and get up early. It all just feels quite…separate. We’re not particularly physically affectionate in terms of hugs, kisses, flirting etc. with each other. It just all feels quite…flat.

The other day I was in the street, walking towards a woman who was waiting for her BF to come and meet her. As he rounded the corner (behind me) she broke into this joyous, beaming smile – directed straight at me, or rather, just over my shoulder -- and just for a second I felt as though she was smiling at me, and I felt very sad at the awareness that neither I nor my DP really experiences that kind of joy at each other’s presence. Isn’t that a normal part of being together for 15 years, though?
We’ve had one session with Relate, about a month back, but the timing was quite bad – summer holidays kicked in, and we can’t really start anything regular until school starts again. The one session we had was okay, and we both got some stuff off our chests.

I suppose I’m just wondering if others have been in this situation and recovered from it – whatever that means? Part of me wants to keep trying, but another part thinks that life is short and maybe we’d both be better off with people who do make us really happy. But then, how realistic is it to expect to find such people as we enter our 40s? And how would it all affect the kids? (I know the standard MN line about divorce being preferable to modelling bad relationships to kids, but I really feel that we are both very good parents and that the kids benefit hugely from us both being there for them. It’s the one thing that unites us.)

I wish everyone to have a relationship where you are happy and joyous to see each other. I used to wonder why u didn't have this with my ex. You obviously have talked about it, do you know what the problem could be?

i'm in a very similar position myself. In fact i've just asked him to leave and stay in a hotel so we can consider our relationship. He's not abusive or domineering, he earns good money and is a very good dad. he just behaves like a twat when he's drunk and I can't be doing being a nagging wife who sits at home waiting for him to come through the door. Realistically I know our relationship is suffering under a quadruple whammy 1. kids (10 and 7) with lots of extra curricular activities which demand a lot of our time. 2. mid life crisis - feeling those youthful years of freedom and fun are a long way back in time and knowing we will soon be bystanders to our own kids who will be getting pissed, going out with unsuitable boyfriends and dancing in all night clubs. 3. not much sex - he's tired or i'm tired and quite frankly who can be arsed? 4. Reality - this is just how it is for people who've been together for 15 odd years. Will a divorce make things better - highly unlikely. You've still got to see him when you go pick up the kids on alternate weekends. The kids are traumatised and they've still got shit loads of school work to focus on and the trials and tribulations of being 10.
I've asked him to leave so we can think and plan a new approach. We love each other, we don't want to divorce however we are not 'happy'. We don't have fun. Everything else gets in the way and we don't put our relationship first. It would be nice to have a 6 month opt-out to be honest. But that is not going to happen so I'm taking a few weeks apart to come up with ideas to take it forward. I'm 60% optimistic.

It doesn't sound like you don't like each other, rather that you have stopped thinking about each other as a loving couple.

I dont agree that this is what all 15+ year relationships are like.

It sounds like you relationship is in danger of grinding to a halt but it is still on the tracks. It doesnt sound as though either of you is acting outside the marriage so that is a good thing.

Are you kind to each other? Do you do things for each other? Do you look after each other when ill or sad?

While you cant change what your partner says or does you can change what you say and do. When you chat about your day to each other do you really listen? Without turning it into an interview actually talk to your partner about her day. Ask her how she feels, tell her how you feel. It doesnt have to be heavy but try to dig beneath the surface a little.

Beware of hobbies. Separate outside interests are fine but when they start to detract from family life then they can become a danger to the marriage. It is never too late to start a new hobby. At a similar point in our marriage a hobby of mine became a shared hobby and now a bit of a passion for us both. It also gets us away from always being available to the DCs which once they are teenagers is no bad thing.

I think the years of DCs at primary school age can seem to drag on forever. I can remember thinking 'is this what my life is going to be like forever?'. The children take a lot of maintenance. Laundry, ironing, nagging about homework, ferrying from pillar to post. It can be very wearing.

Then one of your DCs starts secondary school and there is a little glimmer of light on the horizon as you get to step back as parents.

Dont let DCs' activities take over all your time and energies. You may need to work at it but carve out a little time for you to have time together as a couple. It wont be the end of the world if DCs have to entertain themselves a bit.

Do try to make your marriage work. Your chances of finding new like-minded people to build a ne relationship with are not great (look at second marriage divorce rates). It is kind of obvious but, dont have an affair. It wont make you feel better, it wont make your partner feel better.

Sorry, this has turned into an epistle. I hope you can make it work and turn a corner a bit.

Keep working on it. Make time for your relationship. Doesn't need to be expensive or going out. Be kind to each other. You need to give it at least one last real go or you'll never know and always think, could I have tried harder.

You may not have the smile as you enter a room feeling anymore but you have 15yrs of being together and the security and safeness that brings shouldn't be underestimated. When that has gone it's very different starting again. And only time can get that again. I remember reading on here once a great thing too which is so true, no one else will love your dcs the way you do. Being able to share in that together and share the little things and big achievements they make is something I do miss.

So if you can try relate. Sit and talk it all through. The grass isn't greener it's just different grass. Sometimes we need different grass but make sure it won't give you indigestion as once some things are said there is no going back.

I speak from experience. My exh and I had similar. Together 13 yrs. he just stopped trying. Mid life crisis type situation. We are amicable enough now and both have new partners. Kids seem settled as we put them at forefront of it all but I hate sharing them. Hate saying goodbye. Hate they have to pack their bags every few days and go to his.

If it's what needs to happen it will happen but be very sure it's what you want as its a very different future for everyone

the last time I read a thread like this, I inwardly thought "what's his/her name then?" but didn't post

it came out later there was another (potentially) interested party

any comment on that ?

I have been married for 40 odd years and during that time I have felt dislike of my DH , and my life, and wondered about leaving and escaping. However I was stressed and had very little time to spend on 'Us'
I suspect my DH felt the same but we stuck it out and we are back in love and are very happy.
Think very carefully about what you are contemplating giving up. I think marriages go through many peaks and troughs. I know it is unfashionable to remember the words, through good and bad times...... But I also think you should try harder. You have an awful lot to lose and so do your DCs.
You loved each other once after all.

A lot of people I know have relationships like this. Kids are the centre of it and parents are exactly that and litle else. Do think you are on your own because you are not. It is going to take effort and if she isn't showing any willingness to try then you will have to take the bull by the horns so to speak. Start to give her little compliments, ask about her day and develop the conversation, see if you can arrange some child free time.

If after a few months of this, she is still not responding then perhaps you do need to think about options.

The feeling of wanting what that couple had rarely lasts. Starting again can come with lots of problems of its own as you get older as most people have baggage!

Surely divorce / separation is complicated a life for everyone and sadness (perhaps bitterness).. Above poster is right about loving your children more than anyone else ever will.
Be more demanding about what you want and need if that means arguing/ disagreeing then so bit . Throw some rocks in the still pond create some ripples in fact a huge splash. Can one seriously divorce over boredom.

It is very hard but you need to talk openly with your DP. If they are kind they will listen.

OP - your marriage is boring. That isn't a reason to divorce - it's a reason to make an effort to find some joint projects that enthuse you.

Wow! First time I've read a thread like this and not had almost everyone suggesting that it's time for separation/divorce and that staying would just make everyone unhappy.

The OP pretty much described my marriage, and I know it needs some work but have never seriously thought about ending it. We committed to each other and have to find a way to enjoy being together again, and that's probably mostly about giving each other time and actually listening to each other.

All marriages have extremely boring parts. Sunday ironing school uniform, yuck, thinking about meals, washing, lunch boxes etc,etc.

I have gone from detesting my DH and thinking he is ugly, to wanting to throw myself on him and rip his clothes off. All in one week on occasion.
Sex ? What was sex? We had very little privacy with a couple of kids in bed with us, kicking the shite out of us and peeing on us.

Even if you exchange the present boring partner for another one there is no guarantee that it wouldn't become the same scenario.

I made an effort to try and make my life more exciting and interesting. Once the DCs have left or become old enough to leave it does get easier to reincarnate what you once had.
My life is now blissful. Now I feel nostalgic for when my DCs, husband and I were a family unit without my DCs wives and husbands to think about. Just my own little family.( sighs)

Stick with it, is my advice. Go somewhere with your wife and do something that makes you both laugh.
Surprise her. Tomorrow morning give her tea in bed and hang a notice on your willy that says Something outrageous, such as ' Nil Point' Hopefully it will surprise her and make her laugh. Perhaps she finds you boring as well.

What can you do to reignite your marriage? If you feel undesired then your wife is likely to be feeling the same.Do you compliment her? Do you have a social life? All relationships go through bland phases so you need to develop skills to keep your relationship alive..It is possible, my dh and I went through a very tough time but once we started to appreciate each other the spark came back.

Firstly, make sure it is your marriage that is boring and not your whole life. If your career is boring or you are having a mid-life crisis over having not achieved as much, this may well knock on into your marriage. I have found that when both our careers aren't going well, there's more discontent in general and it's easy to blame the other person for not making things interesting enough.

From what you have said, it seems like you have become the 'good friends' marriage, but with little passion. It might be worth reading some of John Gottman's work, he describes different types of marriages and one of them is this domesticated, not really rowing but the danger is lacking the passion (mine is the one that is passionate, but can be unstable, quite intensive and not very calm!) He not only identifies this but tells you how you can change it.

I would think there is a lot of hope here, you don't seem to dislike each other, just be drifting apart a bit, so with a concerted effort and some frank speaking, it may be that you can get back on track. It can be good to take a rain check, and your counselling will provide this.

as anyfucker points out, the trouble is at this stage, other people can look shiny and sparkly, they are just people, but it's easy to imagine if you were with them, there would be lots of skipping about and smiling. Actually, in my experience, the men I've known who have left in a mid-life crisis often regret leaving their wives, because they aren't really leaving through incompatibility but their own mid-life issues, which don't all get solved by a 10 years younger partner (who then ages, wants kids, divided time, losing bond with original family and so on). Be honest with yourself about this aspect of the whole picture.

It sounds as though you do love each other, but that there's a lot of habit and taking each other for granted that has crept in. Just a bit of time spent with just the two of you together might start to change that. Is there any way you can institute a weekly date night, or even grab a weekend away together?

I'm a great believer in creating some time to be irresponsible together! So no talking about car purchases or the electricity bill or anything like that while you're out either!

The other thing is, it is so easy to begin to look like a saggy easy chair as age, you just don't have much time for yourself.

How do you look at the moment? Are you squidgy and unfit?

I think it helps your energy levels if you try and get fitter together. You can then use the energy to revitalise your marriage.

I would try and question everything. If your wife knew that you were seriously thinking about divorce that would be a wake up call to 'do something' surely '
I hope to goodness you do, for the sake of your dear DCs

If you feel like you are going to talk about the children/boring things, go somewhere you have to do something, so cinema, concert, or even something silly like bowling or ice-skating together. Doing things together gives you something to talk about.

Also, with a 8 and 11 year old, the time when they can stay in and babysit themselves is just around the corner, so you will get more couple time in the next few years.

Holeinmyheart I am glad I am not married to you. Jeez.

The 'babysitting age' thing is worth bearing in mind, yes. It would be great to have/make more time for each other.

Neither of us is squidgy or unfit. In fact I'd go so far as to say that we are both in good shape and attractive. She goes to the gym several times a week, and I play a fair bit of sport.

The question of divorce has come up between us it's what prompted us to go to Relate. She has said words to the effect of 'If we're going to split up we should do it now I don't want to go another 10 years together and THEN find out that we weren't right for each other.'

Neither of us is having an affair. I mean, I know I'm not, and she just doesn't have time. "Ahhh, but what about all those trips to the gym???" I hear you cry. I know it's hard to believe on MN (where every other thread seems to be about sneaking around and infidelity) but I have total trust that she is actually going to the gym. We have a certain amount of sexual openness in our marriage, and if she was going to try something on with someone else, she'd be up front about it and we'd talk it through.

CheezyBlasters -- thanks for your kind input.

You're welcome, mister. If there was a little icon with a finger, I would be using it now.

The time drags when we're unhappy. I don't think it's time to give up until you become conscious you have both long stopped trying to dedicate time to do nice things for each other.

Boredom to my mind is not the death knell to a relationship, it's when you no longer communicate.

Try and recall what you did pre-parenthood. Arrange time with each other differently.

I can't see that this warrants a divorce. Or even Relate for that matter. Personally I'd arrange some babysitting and go out with your wife and do something that interests you both. Whining to a Relate counsellor when you could be spending the precious little child free time enjoying yourselves seems demented to me. Sorry to be so blunt!