Porn

[CryingMummy]

Two days ago, I discovered that DH, who works away a lot, had been regularly using porn. He has also admitted to having "crushes" on people. He says he started the porn use because there wasn't much sex and both denies that is has contributed to less sex (the admission came when I challenged him as to why he didn't seem to want me anymore) and that there is anything wrong with it. In trying to reassure me, he said he "only" watched "ordinary" women pleasuring themselves. He has also watched women with other women. I am not certain of the exact span (he says about once a week for "years"), but, during this time, I have been bringing-up our children and having high-risk pregnancies then beast-feeding.

I feel very strongly about porn. We were both very innocent when we married and I find it hard to realise how many other naked women touching themselves he has now seen. I also wonder how, as a father of daughters, he can use it.

I don't recognise him. I feel ridiculous. I don't trust him. Unless I mis-understood, it was lack of opportunity (he says he is socially awkward) rather than principles which have meant he hasn't slept with anyone else and he, very bitterly, said he had been "good". My marriage vows are so important to me and, though life has been busy and tough, I thought we could get through stuff together. He hasn't explicitly said that he thinks me a prude, but, when I asked why he didn't ask me to do something he said, surprised "But you wouldn't do that". I said, part from anal, which he doesn't want, anyway, and sending explicit photos (due to security concerns) I was willing to try anything.

I am very upset,so much the children are worried. I have confided in a couple friends in real life, but I feel adrift.

[CryingMummy]

Btw, there are all sorts of other things troubling him, many of which he has not articulated, but I have got stuck on the porn/cheating ...

[CryingMummy]

Thanks, Jan and Joy and gilded.

[Offred]

The porn is the issue which has brought the greater problem to the fore I think.

The greater problem being that he is implying that other people exist only in so far as they can provide for him. He's implying that through his actions and now through his words (saying he is socially awkward and would have liked more experience implies settling for you because you'd take him not love).

Someone who has had such difficulty with their own insecurity and took the decision, years ago, to pass the problem onto others he has relationships with rather than deal with his issues is incapable of having a healthy relationship and is unlikely to learn a different way of dealing with things IMO.

It might seem like 'not enough' to end things this single issue but I think before you make a decision about staying and working on things you really should think about whether he is likely to actually be capable of it as well as whether he wants to.

His choices are set up to benefit him, he's had years of benefitting and not being uncomfortable at the costs for other people - why would he want to change? This is the way he has always been since he began sexual relationships - is he going to be able to unravel his current approach to relationships and rewrite himself?

[Jan45]

I would have space from him OP if you can. He's being incredibly hurtful, he hasn't slept with anyone out of opportunity, he actually inferred that - if so, there is no trust there, you are right.

He things being good gets him a pat on the head, seriously, that and the porn I'd be livid, he'd not be under my roof if possible.

Lean on your friends and have that space.

[Offred]

If he wants to change you need to think about whether that's in order to keep you (because he wants a woman) or whether it's because he really had understood that this is not a way to behave.

[CryingMummy]

Jan, as he works away in the week, I already have more space from him than I would usually like.

Very thought-provoking, Offred: I have no easy answers.

[clearingaspaceforthecat]

He has broken your trust. It is over porn but it could have been over anything. Trust has been broken. He needs to accept that and not try to blame you/stress/etc.
Is he now working hard to rebuild that trust? He needs to be proactive here in order for you to be able to come through this as a couple.
Is he willing to do whatever it takes/whatever you need him to do to help you to feel happy in the relationship again?
How he behaves now, how sensitively he is able to respond to the hurt he has caused you will be an important factor I think.

[RealityCheque]

Aha, here come the LTBs (or similar).

Give it an hour and folk will be suggesting contacting SS and suggesting he not be allowed unsupervised contact.

I despair with these threads. Think I will leave this one alone now! Good luck OP.

[GarminGirl]

I'd worry more about the stuff he's not telling you. Porn these days is full of adverts about 'girls 3 miles away ready for sex, text this number' and hook up sites. Webcams etc. He says its not been interactive, not sure I'd believe that, but only you know him and how he works, at you absolutely sure he's told you everything?

[Offred]

Don't let the door smack you in the arse on the way out!

Interesting name too!!!

FWIW if you don't think this constitutes 'enough' to leave or if you don't think porn is objectionable or you think that when someone lies to you it is your fault for not letting them tell you how you should feel that is up to you. Fortunately you aren't the boss of the world! Unfortunately I suspect you work in some kind of area where you are able to militantly push your agenda on vulnerable people.

[Joysmum]

You have an agenda too offred and are usually the most vocal in expressing it to the self same vulnerable people.

[Offred]

You're confusing me objecting to porn myself with me having an agenda.

[Joysmum]

If you say so

[Offred]

I'm usually pretty vocal in opposing the idea that objecting to porn is not a valid viewpoint yeah, that's hardly an agenda.

[Joysmum]

Of course

Same could be said of those who don't share your view too. I find it ironic you can't see that. Differences of opinion are fine but then to suggest any one opposing has an agenda and you don't is amusing

[ApplesTheHare]

I've been surprised by how naive a lot of MN-ers seem to be about porn. My DH is a computer repairman and he says he's seen very few computers in his 8 years in business that haven't been used to watch porn. Before you say that's because it's the porn causing viruses, etc., that type of work is in the minority. Teenage girls watch it a surprising amount, apparently. Anyway, I digress. I suppose the point is that a lot of people seem to want to liken it to rape or cheating, when all porn is is an (often) unethically sourced fantasy aid, and nobody really objects to fantasies. It's like eating meat - people don't physically need it but they often want it and are happy to overlook some of the facts about the way it's made.

[autumnleaves123]

I would feel exactly like you, OP. When porn becomes an addiction, it's like any other, destructive, self indulgent, selfish.

My husband doesn't do porn but he drinks a lot, and I feel about his drinking like many people feel about porn. It denies you of togetherness, connection, intimacy because the person you love is on different page. It's horrible.

[achieve6]

I'm sorry to hear this

I wish I could say something more useful than that. I am also uncomfortable with porn and I think there is a bit of an issue saying that now. I feel bad speculating about how many people use it but I do think a lot of them do - otherwise how did we end up at a point where it is difficult to say it makes you uncomfortable and you don't want a partner who uses it?

But the point is how you feel about it.

I guess the real question is - are you okay with him wanting to use porn? If he stops to appease you it is not the same thing as deciding for himself that he wants to stop.

apologies if I am making no sense!

[grumpasaur]

Op, I work in sexual health so have perhaps a more realistic insight into this issue than those who say that their DH would never use it.

The reality- factually based and backed up with HEAPS of research- is that most men do watch porn, and that many women do too. There are certainly some porn sites which are unethical in nature, and others which are based on home videos etc so less element of coercion, abuse, etc.

Op, to me, the porn is a red herring here. If you came on and said your DH was using porn and all else was well, my advice would be to draw you own boundaries around porn use in the relationship and see if he will respect that.

However it sounds like your DH has checked out a bit, emotionally and physically, and that you are left trying to fight for a relationship which one party isn't wholly committed to.

At this point I would advise to shelve the porn issue for a moment and consider counseling or meditation about the relationship as a whole... If he is willing to do that you will have some investment and therefore some motivation to invest yourself.

If he isn't- I would say he has already checked out and you may be better considering whether this relationship will go the distance.

Porn is a very emotive topic for many so it's difficult to have a sensible conversation about your specific situation...

[Offred]

If people left it at "I think porn is fine" fair enough but I'm surprised you can't see the difference between telling someone that it is unreasonable to object to porn and telling someone it's ok to object to porn because it is fine to set your own boundaries. When someone's view is that the only thing that is reasonable is to have the same boundaries and viewpoints as they do that's obviously a different thing to saying it's ok to have your own boundaries and that other people shouldn't force theirs on you.

[Offred]

I objected to reality's posts because they were aggressively dismissive of anyone's right to feel differently, not because reality disagrees with me about whether porn is objectionable.

[Offred]

You don't have to object to porn to object to people being dismissive and vindictive and I've seen you making the very same point many times in fact.

[Offred]

And just from this thread people who object to porn have been told they are;

Immature, not sensible, unbalanced, not realistic, think men who use porn are akin to rapists, saying LTB when they aren't, saying they think SS should become involved with the children of porn users when they didn't, that they deserve bad treatment/disrespect for being so unreasonable etc

The whole point is this thread, like all the others about porn, is not about how other people think porn is great and it isn't even really about the porn but about the relationship. These threads always become about a few posters telling people they know the only thing it is ok to feel is that porn is ok and that if women don't agree they are unreasonable, crazy, unrealistic, controlling and deserving of bad treatment. Those are opinions but they are pretty objectionable ones given the fact that anyone can say they don't want to be involved with anyone else for any reason they like.

[Joysmum]

Have those posts been deleted? I can't see any of those sentiments?

What I can see is many projections from the anti porn brigade about me and my DH must be thinking, feeling and lacking which simply aren't true but given their closed minds it's not worth my time addressing.

So I steer clear of the debate, it's not my place to try to convince people of my reasonings and fully support anyone to have their boundaries wherever they see fit, despite this not being the case from people from both sides of the debate.

I simply post in support of the OP stating that despite my own thoughts and feelings on the subject, she has every right to stand her ground and that's best done by being clear and consistent and having a discussion rather than dictating. I can't abide liars but I also couldn't stand anyone who can't have a discussion rather than a presentation and rant so it's best to try to avoid this, no matter how anti you are. Going in too militant doesn't make for engagement and winning hearts and minds.

[WhySoAngry]

Offred: I objected to reality's posts because they were aggressively dismissive of anyone's right to feel differently

But, Offred, that's what you do pretty much every time you post. You shout down anyone who offers an opinion that's different from yours. Even if they have evidence that backs it up.

I'm pleased to see we have some intelligent and informed contributions:

ApplesTheHare: I've been surprised by how naive a lot of MN-ers seem to be about porn. My DH is a computer repairman and he says he's seen very few computers in his 8 years in business that haven't been used to watch porn. Before you say that's because it's the porn causing viruses, etc., that type of work is in the minority. Teenage girls watch it a surprising amount, apparently

grumpasaur: The reality - factually based and backed up with HEAPS of research - is that most men do watch porn, and that many women do too

CryingMummy: I'm sorry you've had this experience. But it's not about you. Men love porn. Men love fantasising. Men love masturbating.

With ten times the testosterone of women, men think about sex all the time - and porn-fuelled masturbation is one way of relieving the tension that builds up because of it. It's a primal urge, like wanting to eat or drink. Because most women don't feel that way they can't understand that men do.

Your DH, CryingMummy, is no different from 90% of men when it comes to porn. By all mean LTB. But know it's highly likely the next man in your life - if you have one - will use porn as well.