what to do about FIL

[scribbles1980]

FIL is a bully. When my DH & his DB were growing up he was emotionally & physically abusive.
MIL has told me a few stories over the years about how she would have to climb out of windows to escape him.

I think that DH & BIL have blocked out most of their childhood in order to protect themselves.
They seem to crave their fathers approval and he is never pulled up on his nasty comments.
FIL & MIL are quite elderly and tend to rub each other up the wrong way. She will answer him back now, but this is mostly said under her breath.
FIL has been particularly rude & nasty to me over the years but this has always been brushed off with 'oh you know what he is like'.

Two things have happened recently & I now do not know how do deal with it so would be grateful for some advice.
Firstly, FIL has started saying some nasty little snips to my children. They unsurprisingly are not keen on him but adore their nan.
Secondly, MIL has been quite ill recently due to stress. It has come to light that around 1 month ago FIL physically attacked her with her having to kick him to get him off.
BIL was aware of this and went round to their house and threatened to ' break FIL'S legs' if he ever laid another hand on his DM.
When BIL told my DH he was physically shocked and I don't think he knows how to handle this. All the childhood memories have resurfaced and he is also incredibly embarrassed at his father's behaviour.
However, the general consensus is that we should brush this under the carpet so as not to upset MIL.
I have only had a brief chat with her. I told her to divorce him & that it was not too late to have a few years of happiness without having to put up with his behaviour.
DH thinks that if she were to divorce him it would kill her.
The big problem is that I do not want anything to do with him. I could just about stand his bullying behaviour but now he is starting on my children.
I do not want him in my house, I do not want to be in his company. This kind of behaviour is so alien to me. I think he is getting worse. DH & BIL seem to think that he will never change but I think that he has never really been pulled up on his behaviour.
If I say anything to him I think it will cause catastrophic arguments. Maybe, I should keep out of it but it doesn't help that I don't want anything more to do with it.
They have a family member staying with them at the moment so everything is being brushed under the carpet until he has gone.
FIL is also very wealthy nut uses his money to manipulate his sons. He is actually not very generous but produces the carrot and stick all the time.
DH isn't money mad so I don't understand how he let's him manipulate him so much. I guess it is just another form of bullying?
Any advice would be gratefully received. I have managed to stay away from him but the thought of being in his company makes me feel physically sick.
Thank you

Your dh has gotta step up here but if he's drowning in denial then you take the initiative and go NC with fil and keep your dc away from him. Simple as. If your dh paints you as the villain of the piece then you'll have to consider your future together. I couldn't be with someone with such poor judgement and who admired such a bullying father. He'd benefit from going NC too.

Some serious conversations to be had. Wish me luck!

Unfortunately, in an entirely well meaning way, the whole family is protecting this man and allowing him to continue abusing his wife. You have to protect your children and also you have to stop validating his existence and basically colluding in the life that allows him to abuse a defenceless lady unchecked. It's not easy but if you just keep pretending everything is normal then you're part of it, and you are sending a terrible message to your children, too.

Well meaning or cowardly Doodle? Anyway good luck OP. You know what's what. You just gotta woman up and assert yourself.

I think anyone in your shoes would be worried about the consequences, those feelings are normal and natural, but as you know, it's got to be done. And doesn't look like anyone else is going to do it.

Try and remember you didn't cause any of this, FIL did. However deep in the FOG he is, your DH is going to have to choose between placating his father or protecting his children, he can't do both. And you are not responsible for creating that particular dynamic. You're just trying to protect your DC, like a mother should. Well done you, and good luck!!

What do you mean, you should stay out of it? He is in your family and harming your children. You could not be more in it.

He cannot be allowed anywhere near your kids. Never mind the arguments and the whinging. Tell him straight, he is physically and mentally abusive and that is why he is not allowed near your children. Obviously you'll need to be more soft and gentle with your husband, but once he comes round to the realisation that his father could abuse his kids the way he abused him, he should realise what matters most.

Prepare also for threats to be written out of the will (though I'd guess you aren't in it anyway), and treat them with the disdain they deserve.

I had an abusive, violent father who believed his actions were everyone else's fault for not placating and submitting to him all the time. I often used to worry about what I'd do if I had kids, because although he loved small children and was great with them, I knew how easily he could turn when they started to get minds of their own. Now he's dead I don't have to worry about it, but if he were alive, kids would come first. He can piss and whinge until the cows come home, he has nobody to blame but himself. It has to end here.

Regardless of DH and MIL you need to protect your children from this horror of a man. I think going NC is the only way forward or in another 20 years your kids will be in DHs position.

Two things occur to me:

Your MIL is elderly and unwell. That makes her vulnerable. Elder Abuse is a crime - you could seek advice either from the Local Social Services Adult Safeguarding Team (a friend did this a while back and they were amazing), and/or seek advice from Age UK charity helpline

Some great advice, thank you all.
So, can anyone suggest things to say at this family meeting?
I really need to put my point across in a non dramatic way. Also I don't want DH & DB to think I am attacking them in anyway, if you see what I mean?
So bloody stressed over this

When are you having this talk? Can you talk to your DH first, just the two of you? I imagine that would be less daunting.

What can you say? Well, that what your FIL is doing to your DC is emotional abuse, and you're not going to tolerate it. It's your job as their mother to protect them, and that comes before absolutely anything else.

I'm afraid your DH and BIL might take it as an attack, however you couch it though. Their mother didn't protect them, but they love her, and still fear their father and crave his approval from the sound of it, so it's going to be hard for them to see you doing for your DC what MIL didn't do for them, and not join up the dots. People will go a long way to avoid joining up the dots sometimes...

What about BIL's DW, what's her take on it all, do you know? And do they have DC themselves?

I guess you just have to stick to the line that you're protecting your DC from being hurt here and that's the bottom line. Don't let them make you the problem. Keep it firmly focused on FIL's unacceptable behaviour. Keep reminding them that they are adults and as such can make choices about what they do, but your DC don't have those choices and are vulnerable and need the adults in their lives to make the right choices for them.

Fingers crossed for you.

Thank you talking.
Family member leaves on Friday so will happen after that.
Great suggestion of speaking to DH first.
Sil has been in the family a long time. She has kind of always kept out of it. But she is also disgusted at FIL behaviour.
As the children are now involved I think she will be a lot more vocal.
They do not have any children of their own.

A book which may help you, OP, is Susan Forward's Toxic In-Laws. I think it's available on Kindle.

Your H and his Bro have spent many years having this behaviour normalised to them and being fed the message that nobody is allowed to challenge their dad's behaviour.

Between you and SiL you need to show them both that FiL's behaviour is unacceptable and always has been; that he has been abusing MiL and his children for many years but this now has to stop.

I would concentrate on the effects of abuse on your DC. If they try to defend FiL's behaviour, ask them if they would treat their own DC that way? If they say no, then they know the behaviour is unnaceptable; they are just mired in the FOG that abusive parents cause.

No one was there to protect your dh and his brother. They suffered and continue to do so to this day.

This time it's different, your dc have you and dh to protect them, AND BIL and SIL. That changes this.

For a start you don't let that evil bastard away with so much as a dodgy LOOK in the direction of your children. Your dh may be fearful of this old man, but you are not, and who cares about the trouble? Your dc are being abused/insulted and that isn't going to continue, not on your watch, not ever. All your h has to do is back you, and BIL and SIL. You are not asking the boys to speak up, they are not strong enough to stand up to their father, but you weren't brought up to be degraded, and neither will your children be.

The only meeting you need to arrange is between you and dh, his brother and SIL. to support each other in your decisions to back away. Mil needs to understand that you are ghave I got to put your children's health above her H behaviour, and if she chooses to turn a blind eye to what he did to her sons, and now what he's done to your do, and even to her own self, that there are going to be consequences. She alone is responsible for the choices she makes. She's welcome to visit you, whenever she wants to, but fil won't be. Not now, not ever.

If sh e can't prioritise herself, her sons and grandchildren, then she will have to live with that choice.

Brutal, perhaps, but this is the next generation being abused, on her fecking watch, so if not now, when does she expect the fallout to come?

ghave I got Was supposed to be going to have, I think

remember these are not YOUR parents, so you don't need to take their crap!

Even if they were your parents, you STILL don't need to take any crap

There's no excuse, no matter who these people are. They don't get to abuse, humiliate or harass.

What happened to your dh and his brother was not their fault. What this man does to his wife, their mother, is not their fault, or hers.

I know mil didn't cause this, but by failing to react, she didn't protect her sons. The consequences of this are that decades on, they are still suffering and are afraid of him. She too is afraid of him.

He's crossed line now, knowing that 3 people won't stop him because he's conditioned them into cowering in submission, but your cd are not alone, they have you, and they have their dad, their uncle and aunt who know this isn't right. fil is out numbered, and out gunned. Sure he'll rant. Let him, he's got nothing. Money? So what. Better skint than abused.let him donate it to the cats protection league or something, but he won't use his wealth to buy the right to damage your children.

Does BIL and SIL have any dc?

Sorry, do.

Home with an abuser becomes a prison. The inmates adopt strategies to cope.

I think you have two useful allies in BIL and SIL. If your MIL does not speak out about the attack last month that is her decision. You are right to worry about the DCs and they should be shielded from FIL. The whole 'brushing things under the carpet' stops with the older generation. This poisonous atmosphere is not how your family brought you up and you have to look forward and consider what is best for your DCs.

You wouldn't have got with DH let alone started a family had he been a carbon copy of his dad - it is sad to read that over the years DH made light of or minimised any unpleasantness directed at you. His dad did not have dementia back then! So doing nothing now that FIL is starting in on the DCs is not an option.

Hissy Thank you some really good points
Bil & sil do not have children.
I really really appreciate all the advice given. It has made me that much stronger to face FIL.
I saw Mil briefly yesterday & she was making a point of how nice he has been to her lately.
I didn't say anything as I want family member to leave before I do.

Focus on those who need support, your dh, BIL and your dc, get your ducks in a row, gain strength in the support of one another. Fil will keep for when you need to deal with things. Talk to your dh and then Meet BIL and SIL with dh first.

I like to think to myself that it must cross abusers minds that one day they will be rumbled, come up against a bigger bastard? If not then it really demonstrates how pitifully deluded and stupid they are.
My ex was abusive, well he probably still is abusive, but he's now my ex, so has no power over me. I look at him now and I wonder how on earth he ever weilded any power over me, and know that he certainly wouldn't now. The tables have turned and while I don't punish hi. For how he treated me, I don't tolerate a nanosecond of stupidity from him, call him up on everything.

Even when I know it's pointless, he's giving a ton of excuses why he's being an idiot, i merely say, I hear you, but I'm not going to agree to accept any of it, because I know you're wrong, and I'm not going to say otherwise. Ever. Calmly, but inviting no discussion. If he were to push it, I hang up, or would leave.

I have the power in my life. I use that power to protect myself and my son. I've used it against my ex, against my mother and her vile h. I've used calm rational and blisteringly good one liners against the BS my dad comes up with too. Yeah I'm sure they see me as feisty, a harridan or worse, but my so. Is strong and knows who loves him, and knows I'll keep him safe.

Hissy for you and your strength

Well done Hissy. Yes I would go nc and your children. The thing is the family have pandered to your fil because they're afraid or think it's normal. You have unintentionally upset this charade because it's wrong and disfunctional and that's why you're now put in the spotlight.

One thing that's important to understand is that bullies bully out of weakness not strength, so while they rant and rail, it's from fear, insecurity and loss of control.

Stand up, stand united and never compromise on anything. What's the worst he can do? Send you to Coventry? Cut you off?

Result...

Your dh will need a lot of support though, this stuff is terrifying, and hurts like pretty much nothing else

He will probably attack and blame you until you fall into line. You don't have to put up with it.