I feel it's so unfair

[ladymargaret]

Most of us recently celebrated legalising of gay marriage. It was all over the Facebook and the papers. Being gay is the norm and nobody looks weird at them or tells them that they should go and try it with women. Very progressive and tolerant indeed.

However, why do I have to feel like a weirdo in this progressive society when I say (if it comes across in conversation) that I want to wait with sex till the marriage? I'm not a virgin, I don't believe in God but I came to the point in my life when I want sex to be something intimate that I only share with my husband. I'm not saying that's how everyone should do. I just want people to stop making stupid assumptions and giving me "lectures" about what's wrong with me.

Basically the thing that pressures me is how some people start making negative assumptions:

Assumption 1. I'm using sex as a cheap way to get the man to marry me.

-- No, I'm not. If the man knows at the start about my choice - he has an option to not get involved with me in a first place. Just because many people choose to live together without getting married these days it doesn't mean that marriage has lost its value for others.

Assumption 2. I have a low sex drive.

-- No. I have a very good sex drive. How can anyone assume that there is a correlation between sex drive and waiting with sex till the marriage? It's just my priority is the marriage and I want to only get involved with the guys who feel they are ready for the family.

Assumption 3. I will marry a gay man that way or someone who wants sex once a year.

-- I don't believe in sexual compatibility. I rather believe in mutual attraction. So if we both feel attracted to each other and get on well as friends - sex won't be an issue. Well, some of the married couples have sex very rarely without waiting with sex till the marriage.

Please help me not to feel weird. I want to "celebrate" my feelings about sex before marriage with other people for whom that might be not the choice in the same way as legalising gay marriage is celebrated.

Not sure what marriage equality has to do with abstinence? Two completely different issues.

But anyway, I don't know why you have to feel like a weirdo. Why do you? I don't think you're a weirdo (at least not for the not wanting to have sex until after marriage thing) each to their own, as long as they're not hurting anyone.

Who is making all these assumptions about your choice? Why do you need to talk about it with so many people?

I posted on other forum before about it and I listed most of the assumptions that I was bombarded with.
Obviously, my choice is not particularly a norm in our society these days so I feel the need to discuss it.

I think that is great if thats your personal choice. But it really is nobody else's business or concern, so why do you feel the need to discuss it in the first place? It is your opinion, choice, prerogative, decision - so just get on with it.

My question is..is there any norm in society any more and if so, how do you know it is the norm? Or are you making as many assumptions as you think others are making about you?

Why would anyone want to celebrate your feelings about sex? It's private and your own business. I'm not interested in anyone else's sex life.

Totally different from marriage equality imo.

No. I have a very good sex drive. How can anyone assume that there is a correlation between sex drive and waiting with sex till the marriage?

Well, it's not that odd an assumption to make. Most people have sex fairly regularly. People in relationships have it daily, weekly, monthly. You know; fairly regularly.

So to not be having it at all does suggest somewhat of a low sex drive. Most people's sex drive is such that the notion of living a celibate lifestyle until marriage is completely unpalatable.

It's a shame that people aren't more tolerant of your decision, but I agree with Dorreen that it's not really something you even need to be talking with people about - it's no-one's business.

Well if you posted about the subject, OP, you can't be surprised that people gave their opinions.

Muslims don't have sex before marriage, but they don't believe in long courtships either, as this could be a possible source of frustration if it goes on too long.

I think what whould help you is to remember that when we express opinions people will discuss them as it opens up conversation. It's ok for people to have differing opinions even when they do fully understand your stance although you'd not think that reading MN sometimes!

When somebody does offer up differing opinions it is based on their own perception of what it would mean to them. So if someone says it's because you must have a low sex drive, that's because they simply don't understand you view, not because they understand and reject it.

What's most hurtful is people who do fully understand, don't accept that what's right for them isn't right for you, and then tries to convert you to their way again commonplace in MN

Those are the people to get upset about and ditch.

Are you sure it's the no sex before marriage, your friends are concerned about or perhaps something more. Marriage is a fabulous but complex affair, with many potential pitfalls. Personally I 100% disagree with your statement I don't believe in sexual compatibility. I rather believe in mutual attraction. So if we both feel attracted to each other and get on well as friends - sex won't be an issue

I (and maybe your friends also) believe a marriage will struggle if there is not some sexual compatibility from the outset (obviously things may change over time, but in these cases the marriage is already established) Therefore it may be more a case of "why set yourself up for potential failure", rather than a case that they are concerned about no sex before marriage per se.

There are many reasons to decide not to have sex outside marriage, and one is to see how well each of the partners can resist temptation.

if your partner shows he is uncomfortable with abstinence when you need him to be abstinent before marriage, how can you have any confidence if you need him to abstain AFTER marriage, because you are not well, or apart from each other, or for any other reason.

It is one of the best ways to have a trusting relationship

I can't see the connection between your choice and marriage equality, but would be surprised if anyone 'lectures' you about it, beyond saying something like 'sex is great, shame you're missing out on it'

But this: "I don't believe in sexual compatibility. I rather believe in mutual attraction. So if we both feel attracted to each other and get on well as friends - sex won't be an issue"
that's total bullshit. Of course sexual compatibility exists, and of course it can be something that makes or breaks a relationship. The saying 'different strokes for different folks' isn't about massage...
I'm surprised that you've never encountered a bad kisser over the years - that person who is good looking and funny and you fancy but is then like a washing machine on spin cycle when you kiss.
Now multiply that up 100 times and that's what a sexually incompatible person is.
But I think your general philosophy means you don't see sex as 'normal' anyway, so perhaps would be willing to put up and shut up if it was bad, which would be a shame, because it can (and should) be a positive and rewarding part of any relationship.

Can you explain how sex before marriage comes up in conversation? I'm genuinely curious.

At no point during my dating, being engaged to, and subsequent marriage to my DH did anyone ask me about our sex life/consummation of our marriage.

I don't talk to people about my choices in the bedroom (or lack thereof), my "number", or anything sexual (except perhaps when I was younger and sex was something new to be explored).

People will always have an opinion about something if you talk to them about it. Some will voice their opinion, some won't. You happen to be choosing to mention it to people who will voice their opinion.

All three assumptions are things that I'm not surprised have been mentioned, pretty standard arguments. Also, given that you're not a virgin and don't believe in God, I'd say people are assuming that you've "realised you won't catch a man without a promise of honey at the end" (i.e. trapping a man), or that something traumatic has happened to turn you off sex.

I really don't think you should be discussing it with people anyway. There are some things that people want to be private and all those people you've told will know that your next boyfriend won't be "getting any". If I were your boyfriend I can't say I'd be comfortable with people knowing that much about my sexual relationship, especially when it's a new relationship. I'd feel everyone was talking about me.

I'd save this kind of discussion until after marriage, much like your choice to have sex.

I can't imagine why you are discussing this with people in general?! How odd.

I don't believe in sexual compatibility. I rather believe in mutual attraction. So if we both feel attracted to each other and get on well as friends - sex won't be an issue

That is unfortunately bollocks by the way.

I don't believe in sexual compatibility. I rather believe in mutual attraction. So if we both feel attracted to each other and get on well as friends - sex won't be an issue.

I agree with Ehric on this one. I mean no disrespect, but it's exactly the kind of thing someone who has never had sex would think. Of course it is often true, but often it isn't. There are a great many couples who enjoy each other's company and get on well but aren't sexually compatible. Similarly, many people who can't bloody stand each other have incredible sex from that dynamic!

Your sexual choices for yourself and your body are yours alone to make. Since you've opened this up for discussion, though, I would just say - be wary of getting into that virgin's headspace where it gets built up in your mind to be so special that nobody is actually ever good enough. Also, and I do hate to say this, be prepared for your first time to be more of an awkward fumble than a magical, spiritual experience. I'm not saying it can't be such an experience, I'm just saying that for many people, nerves and inexperience can make it a bit too technically fiddly or painful to be fully enjoyable (though that's not to say you wouldn't get there eventually when you're a bit more relaxed and know your body better).

I don't understand the comparison with marriage equality though.

Each ti their own - but honestly, yeah, I find one but of your view odd.
The celebrating it.
WTF?
Is that like wearing a true love waits wristband or something? How do you celebrate waiting?
Why do you want to talk about it?
Do it, don't do it. Meh.

Of course you'll get opinions if you posted on another forum about it

And I think you're totally out of order to compare gay people who have prejudiced against and treated badly (by some) and differently legally because of how they are born, to a few people having a different opinion on something minor that's your choice.

It's quite simple really, don't invite comment from people if you're not interested in hearing their response or opinions. None of these "assumptions" are discriminatory or hurting you in any way; although I really don't get why anyone would think a gay man would marry an abstinent straight woman? That makes no sense whatsoever. But your individual choice about whether or not you have sex, which noone is making illegal or discriminating against you for, has nothing to do with marriage equality. Whatsoever.

I have zero interest in celebrating any sex life apart from my own, tbh. It's your personal business. If you want to seek support about your choice, then you probably need to find like minded people to speak to, and not expect random strangers on the Internet to be interestes in 'celebrating' your personal sex life.

I'll ask again why do you feel like a weirdo though? You clearly disagree with the different views expressed to you, and sound reasonably confident & secure in your choice, so why do you feel like a weirdo?

Sex is such an important part of a relationship that it seems rather obtuse not to try it with that person before you commit. They might be rubbish at it!!

Yy to the comments about sexual compatibility. I've slept with enough men to know that this def exists. I also think you're a bit naive to think that mutual attraction will be enough to ensure a good sex life. You need that sexual compatibility, and we don't have it with everyone.

If you bang on about your sex life, people will comment.

You seem happy with your decision, good for you, get on with it.

When people who are sexually incompatible get together "for life" it can lead to great misery, for both parties.

As to the rest, your choice! Don't see why it's anyone else's business.

Hi all,

Do you think the hook up culture and ease of casual sex leave us women de-valued?

Just came across this article in Vanity Fair www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/08/tinder-hook-up-culture-end-of-dating. It's long!

I think my opening post to this thread was a response of being fed up with casual sex and hook up culture. I want sex to be a result of emotional intimacy first and not the other way around.

Few extracts from this article:

"And is this “good for women”? Since the emergence of flappers and “moderns” in the 1920s, the debate about what is lost and gained for women in casual sex has been raging, and is raging still—particularly among women. Some, like Atlantic writer Hanna Rosin, see hookup culture as a boon: “The hookup culture is … bound up with everything that’s fabulous about being a young woman in 2012—the freedom, the confidence.” But others lament the way the extreme casualness of sex in the age of Tinder leaves many women feeling de-valued. “It’s rare for a woman of our generation to meet a man who treats her like a priority instead of an option,” wrote Erica Gordon on the Gen Y Web site Elite Daily, in 2014.

It is the very abundance of options provided by online dating which may be making men less inclined to treat any particular woman as a “priority,” according to David Buss, a professor of psychology at the University of Texas at Austin who specializes in the evolution of human sexuality. “Apps like Tinder and OkCupid give people the impression that there are thousands or millions of potential mates out there,” Buss says. “One dimension of this is the impact it has on men’s psychology. When there is a surplus of women, or a perceived surplus of women, the whole mating system tends to shift towards short-term dating. Marriages become unstable. Divorces increase. Men don’t have to commit, so they pursue a short-term mating strategy. Men are making that shift, and women are forced to go along with it in order to mate at all."
___

“It’s a contest to see who cares less, and guys win a lot at caring less,” Amanda says.

“Sex should stem from emotional intimacy, and it’s the opposite with us right now, and I think it really is kind of destroying females’ self-images,” says Fallon.

“It’s body first, personality second,” says Stephanie.

“Honestly, I feel like the body doesn’t even matter to them as long as you’re willing,” says Reese. “It’s that bad.”

“But if you say any of this out loud, it’s like you’re weak, you’re not independent, you somehow missed the whole memo about third-wave feminism,” says Amanda.
___

Most of us recently celebrated legalising of gay marriage. It was all over the Facebook and the papers. Being gay is the norm and nobody looks weird at them or tells them that they should go and try it with women. Very progressive and tolerant indeed

This is a rather odd thing to say. Are you saying that you feel like you are a persecuted minority whereas gay people no longer are? I don't really think it's a valid comparison. I doubt people make "celibate" jokes and innuendos or abuse you as you go about your daily life.

Your choices are absolutely fine and you shouldn't need to justify them to others but do you think that you might be imagining persecution where it doesn't exist? Or you get up people's noses by banging on about it all the time so they can't resist winding you up?

Casual hook ups are a choice for both parties. You can only be used if you allow yourself to be. There is a difference between shagging around and only having sex with people you care about. I think that the assumption that you will be sexually compatible with someone because you get on with them could leave you deeply disappointed. I personally would not buy a car without taking it for a test drive and i test drove the hell of dh

Why do people spend so much of their lives caring about things like this? Wanting to be part of some group or trying to differentiate themselves? Do the masses care?

So you don't want sex till marriage - it's no big deal. I don't think it is a major issue but yes, in this day and age somewhat quirky. Only problem you will have is finding a man who thinks the same and I'd perfectly 'normal'.

I want sex to be a result of emotional intimacy first and not the other way around.

Marriage does not guarantee emotional intimacy. If you don't have it by the time you're thinking of getting married, it's not going to suddenly appear afterwards.