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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Is my marriage over? Very long, sorry in advance..

79 replies

tinfoilhat · 05/07/2015 00:17

There is so much that needs to be told, I could go on and on, sorry this will be long, please bear with me...
DH and I have been married 9 yrs, together for 12. He is now 54, 13 yrs older than me. We have 2 DC, 5 and 3.
Basically, the dynamic that worked when we didn't have DC, is a complete fucking nightmare now that we have them.
I have always been the strong partner in the relationship, he was a very laid-back, chilled out, guitar-playing sensitive, arty type, very thoughtful and generous. I was very independent, gutsy and liked being in control. I knew he had not a pot to piss in, had always rented accomodation, he didn't value money because he saw how much more important other things were in life. (How romantic, I thought!) I had just brought my second house. He moved in after we'd been together a year.
Looking back, red flags should have gone up when he started avoiding social situations and family gatherings, only a few months in to our relationship. I just saw it as he was so content with just the two of us.

We were very happy, then during our first pregnancy it all went tits-up.
A few months into the pregnancy he started worrying about his health and a sequence of scans to investigate his concerns were carried out, all clear. He felt bad that this had taken the limelight off of me when it should have been 'my time' but i of course said don't be so silly. He began falling asleep on the sofa and not coming to bed, we hardly ever had sex whilst i was pregnant because he said it didn't seem right, even though I was desperatly horny! I thought he would be the most caring and attentive dad-to-be but he wasn't, would hardly go near the bump and kept 'forgetting' to take pictures of me as I got bigger. The day after i started my maternity leave he got made redundant. He got a reasonable pay off so we thought, let's enjoy the first few months of our baby together and then he'll look for a job. At 8 1/2 months pregnant I had to dash him to A&e as he had what turned out to be Pnemonia. He was bed ridden for two weeks whilst I desperatly tried to do the decorating that had been left to the last minute. (Mr laid-back turned out to be Mr completely incompetent in the house.) Once my due date arrived I had to keep asking him to sleep in our room in case I needed him in the night, not on the sofa. He didn't manage it very often. Baby arrived safely, all very happy. It was intense to say the least us both being home with the baby - we fussed and fretted over him and, i see now, excluded other family members. As my sister has since said 'it was like you both built up this brick wall and no one could get in.' By the time DC1 was a few months old and DH started to look for work, the recession had kicked in and the bottom dropped out of the job market in his field. I went back to work when DC1 was 10months old because of this, when our mutually agreed plan was that i would stay home to bring him up. Just after DC1 was a year old, i found out I was pregnant. (We had done it exactly twice since DC1 was born.) Although we felt very lucky and did want a DC2, the timing because of DH not having a job was awful. Two days after we found out, DH's mum died suddenly, although she had been ill for some time but it wasn't expected. I was fearing greatly for DH's mental health, he was already very low due to the work situation, our relationship was awful and he went on anti-d's. I worked throughout second pregnancy, but took lots of time off because DH frequently couldn't cope, his request, not mine. Eventually I got signed off for two weeks due to DH's stress (not mine!) as he just couldn't deal with things. I felt that, yet again, I couldn't 'enjoy' my pregnancy because his needs had taken over. I felt awful and selfish thinking this way because of all that DH had been through. By now he was avoiding contact with my family, not even coming downstairs to say hello if they came round.
DC2 arrived safely, still no job for DH. Many thoughts that he should have just taken ANY job, but he seemed to talk his way out of why he didn't. DC2 had silent reflux and I found things really tough with the constant crying and feeling guilty that my precious DC1 was so seemingly neglected. When DC2 was a few months old, my very dear friend and work colleague who was like a Mum to me, was diagnosed with lung cancer and died within two weeks. By this time my sisters were virtually non-existent in my life, just doing their duty at birthdays and Christmas. A few months later DH finally picked up a contract for work, things were looking up. Then, when DC2 was 10months old, my Mum died. She had had a major stroke 8 yrs previously and was paralysed and couldn't talk, but she then got a lung disease and deteriorated very quickly within a few weeks. My sisters acted very callously around this time towards me and it became blindingly obvious they didn't give a shit for me any more. Just before my Mum died, I gave my notice in at work.
A few months later DH's contract wasn't renewed and we were back to square one. I hated having him in the house, he sat on the computer in our bedroom looking for work, but came down and distrupted whatever i was trying to do with the kids at the time. For some reason, I felt I had to prove i could manage it all without him and continued to do all the cooking and cleaning (badly!) despite him not being at work.
We had to borrow money from my Dad to pay our mortgage, or we would have lost the house.
Just as we were in utter desperation, DH had his contract taken up again and was made permenant, although on half the wages he had earned before we had DC.
He no longer sees his own two sisters after disagreements with them. He no longer sees my two sisters, refusing to go to family get togethers. He sees this as sticking up for me and how hurt I've been by them, I see it as convenient that he has found an excuse not to see anyone. He will see my Dad and my Aunt, no other family members. He no longer see his friends from where he used to live, just one a couple of times a year. I have made a real effort to make new friends through the DC, i desperately miss socialising and yearn for a night out. DH and I have been out once on our own since we had the DC, to the cinema.
DH has become like a Victor Meldew character, he moans about everything and anything. When he comes in from work it's like a black cloud descends. The only joy he finds in life are the DC, he is a great Dad in that he will play with them and is very creative in this way. He has put on loads of weight and is now classed as obese, I find him repulsive to look at. I have put on about a stone since the DC, but have kept my figure iyswim. I can't remember when we last had sex, could be over a year ago. The thought of him touching me makes me heave. He has turned into a 50's husband - i do all the cleaning, cooking, ironing and looking after DC's, if he makes lunch at the weekend it is with reluctance. I know he works full-time, but the only other thing he does is sort out the broadband or computer if there are any problems. I deal with all the money, bills, car stuff (he doesn't drive), insurances, everything you can think of. We are several thousand pounds in debt because of when he was out of work. We are barely managing on his wage. The house is falling into a complete state around our ears but we can't afford to get someone to do stuff for us and DH just hasn't got the motivation to do any of it,
Weekends are awful. DH is so knackered from work (which he hates) that he doesn't want to do anything, so unless I take the DC out (which I'm always doing throughout the week) they don't get out at the weekend. Occasionally he'll agree to a walk in the forest, but this is invariably cut short because he's lost his patience with the DC. The only way I get time to myself is if I go out of the house, but with no money to spend this is awkward.
I am so fed up with being strong. He says that he doesn't know what he'd do without me, that I've held us all together throughout the problems and he's right, but for once I would like to know that someone is looking out for me, that I can rely on someone, but I can't. Every single fucking time I have needed him to be strong he hasn't, even gets ill when we're about to go on holiday camping so that I end up doing absolutely everything to get ready for it. I cannot remember one time when he's actually stepped up and been a man!
I feel awful for feeling this way about him when he is so obviously suffering from several major life changes so late in life. He says i've always got to be right, that what he thinks doesn't count, but i feel i've lost out on so much (family, socialising) because of the way he is. I've suggested we go to counselling but he has said time and time again that there's no way he's talking to a stranger and we can sort out our problems ourselves, but we never do! We have the same arguements every time! I told him a few years back that we were in trouble and we needed help to sort us out but he wouldn't hear of it, I still thought we could sort it out but now I fear too much has gone unresolved. Im still so fucking angry with him over stuff that happened since our first pregnancy, i just can't let it go!
I feel like life is already over for me, my children are my world and I love every second with them, but i fear for the future.... If DH is like this now, how awful is he going to be in 5 yrs? He's just so negative and horrible about everyone and everything. I don't want to live like a hermit! I want a life!!
But the DC adore him. How can i take that away from them? Plus, we can't even run one household, there's no money for him to move out. I now really resent that everything we have is almost all down to me, how awful of me to think that way.... I have no respect for him, every time I've needed him, he hasn't been up to it.

I'm so sorry, this has all come flooding out, thank you if you've got this far.

OP posts:
tinfoilhat · 05/07/2015 10:25

Lovingfreedom - when we decided to have children we both discussed the work issue and we both felt it important that one parent remained at home. We decided it would be me. When I had to return to work DH by his own admission couldn't cope looking after DC1. By the time we had both DC and my maternity leave was coming to an end, DH could not cope at all with 2. He still finds it difficult now and has only taken them both out on his own for a quick walk to the park on a couple of occasions.
We both felt very strongly about not putting the DC in childcare, so it was a joint decision for me to give my notice in and try to cope on his reduced wage, which he saw as only temporary until he could find something else.

OP posts:
TheoriginalLEM · 05/07/2015 10:26

No issues with the home schooling, i was just worried that after the way you described the way your DH isolated you he was doing the same with the kids. Clearly not, it sounds like a great set up.

Do you think you are projecting some of your frustrations about your life on him? My life has not turned out the way i would have liked, i sometimes blame my partner, there are quite a lot of things in your post that i relate to actually. I think that the problem is, people feed off each other, your DH is "laid back" lazy and that as a consequence makes you less motivated. You become less motivated and he picks up on that, drags him down, you pick up on his lack of motivation, drags you down.........

The way you write about your DH suggests you don't love him anymore. I DO still love my DP after 23 years together but i do still think he needs a rocket up his arse. The trouble is, so do i and i blame him for htat, but honestly, its me!! I find that if i start something, he will get motivated to join in....

So whilst i don't think you are scapegoating your DH, i do wonder if you are frustrated with yourself also.

Vivacia · 05/07/2015 10:27

Am I right in thinking that he's the one working in a job he dislikes for a wage that doesn't reflect it's/his worth because that's what you do when you have a family, even if you'd rather not have such responsibility and not driven that way?

BeyonceRiRiMadonnna · 05/07/2015 10:30

Well you are expecting him to change to fall in line with how you've changed and how your family dynamics have evolved, which to a degree I don't think you're being unreasonable, but you knew who HE was when you married him and before you had DC.

I think you want him to be someone he's not, he wants the easy chilled out life. He will never be the man you want him to be.

Vivacia · 05/07/2015 10:30

Here's another example, We both felt very strongly about not putting the DC in childcare, so it was a joint decision for me to give my notice in and try to cope on his reduced wage, which he saw as only temporary until he could find something else.

Presumably it was a joint decision and he wasn't the only one thinking this would be a temporary low wage situation?

To be clear, I'm not taking his side, and I'm not saying this situation is all your fault or anything like that. I'm just wondering if you're seeing things through a particular filter.

tinfoilhat · 05/07/2015 10:33

Vivacia, sorry, I see now.
I totally know that being arty, sensitive etc etc are strong traits and still see these as being his positive points.
I think that his problems with responsibility and having no responsibility until relatively late in life are what's behind much of our current situation.

OP posts:
cailindana · 05/07/2015 10:35

I have to agree with Vivacia. It sounds very much like a kind and gentle but directionless man met a driven perfectionist, capable woman and it all went predictably wrong. OP you wanted a man who was outgoing and who could support you to be a SAHM. But you chose a shy man with little work ethic who was too old to really change. The poor fecker is 54 with two small children, suffers from depression and obesity and sounds entirely wrung out by life. Why are you expecting him to support the family? He can't manage it, he never could and that should have been obvious.
He is not to blame for: getting pneumonia, your part in blocking out the family after DC1 was born, your sisters being arseholes, him being made redundant, his depression, his inability to find a job in a recession (though he could have gone for other jobs, as you say).
Why did you quit your job? Why didn't you let your DH help with the house and children while he was unemployed?
It sounds like you are entirely incompatible. But do stop trying to make out your DH is a massive villain. Unless there is some genuine bad behaviour you haven't mentioned then he's just a not very sociable guy struggling with his weight and his mental health while his wife seethes at him.

Twasthecatthatdidit · 05/07/2015 10:41

I would agree with others, you do seem to blame him for everything that has gone wrong in your life. But it does sound like you don't love him anymore, so you will need to think about practicalities. I can't easily see how his salary will support two homes when it barely supports one - you may have to work.

Lovingfreedom · 05/07/2015 10:43

Well...sounds like you are more capable at most things than your DP. You can't do everything though. I'd still consider sending the kids to school and getting a job yourself. It doesn't sound like there's a lot of love or respect...and fair enough tbh.

postmanpatscat · 05/07/2015 10:54

I agree with lovingfreedom. Your DC are only 5 and 3. Send them to school, they will love it. I'm an infant teacher and every morning I see 30 smiling faces, excited to see their friends and learn new things. So your DC will be happy and you can get a job and that will ease some of the pressures and give you some important grown up time back.

swisscheesetony · 05/07/2015 11:00

Another one here who's recently left a man who sucked the joy from life. I've two DC the ages of yours too.

We're broke but we're happy - we do all those free days out and return home happy, not with an air of trepidation as we turn the key in the door...

I do no more childcare/DIY/organising than I did when I was with him - and being a resourceful, previously successful woman I know we'll get back on our feet.

Now isn't a bad time to fling him out/walk - as you've gt the summer holidays ahead of you to breathe and enjoy your children.

DS2 said to me "daddy doesn't make you cry in your house". That's all I needed.

Fwiw I've not cried for him once, like you I think I'd mentally checked out years ago.

MiscellaneousAssortment · 05/07/2015 11:22

I don't think it matters whether you're being fake to him or not.

It sounds like he's refusing to join in any way out of the situation you're both in, and that he's incapable of being a supportive partner and a father.

It doesn't matter how you got there, only what you do now.

If there's any route out of this situation together, he needs to be as committed as you are to changing. You can't take on all the blame, or all the responsibility for being the only grown up. Or for makkng him better. He has to do that himself. Which he doesn't sound capable of from your description.

If you decide to seek a better life without him, it will be hard, and yes, you'll probably have to give up home educating, but I think you'll be surprised by how much energy and strength you have, once you're not spending it all on propping up someone who won't help himself.

Vivacia · 05/07/2015 11:27

But she isn't the only one behaving like an adult Confused

Vivacia · 05/07/2015 11:28

but I think you'll be surprised by how much energy and strength you have, once you're not spending it all on propping up someone who won't help himself.

What do you mean by "propping up"? He's doing 100% of the earning whilst struggling with health issues.

Howsithanging · 05/07/2015 11:34

I couldn't live with a man like the one you describe. What, he can't even take them out for a couple of hours?

However you have made some life choices that are not compatible with a man like this ie not working and home-schooling.

I would love to have done both of those when my dc were young but I had to be the main wage-earner in my household simply to get by. For most of us, the more conventional route is the one which suits modern family life best.

I don't know if you should change your set-up or if you should end your marriage. Maybe both?

tinfoilhat · 05/07/2015 11:38

Much to think about here, some very valid points of view.

I don't see him as the villain, I feel very sorry for him that he is obviously struggling with this new life of ours. I have tried to help him cope, which is why I've probably taken control of the majority of our lives - so that he has less to worry about. But that has perhaps led to him feeling even more helpless?

I have previously suggested that may be if he found a small place nearby he could regain some of his 'me' time and feel like he still was himself again. (He struggles with not having the space to have all his music stuff out anymore.) it was a genuine suggestion to help him feel more fulfilled and happier. He said the thought of not seeing the DC every morning and night was dreadful, not an option to him.

Sorry if this is disjointed, trying to read and reply whilst with DC. I really appreciate your help and will respond when I can.

OP posts:
strongsummer · 05/07/2015 11:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

tinfoilhat · 05/07/2015 11:56

Hi Strongsummer, thank you for your post, I'm sorry you are going through similar. My DH is also loyal, trustworthy and supportive in many ways, as you say, they have done nothing wrong as such, they are just going in a different direction.

I think that's why I keep thinking this isn't the end for us, surely we can sort this out somehow so that we can keep the family together? I thought about maybe us both going into part-time employment, that way the pressure is off of him a bit and I get to have a 'break' of going to work, but then homeschooling is definitely out the window, as I think he'd find excuses not to take them out, which is what he did when he looked after DC1 when I worked.

Then again, I can't help feeling angry that it's always me trying to figure out how to help him! He doesn't seem to want to help himself, even though he's not happy with the way he is.

So much to think about.

OP posts:
tinfoilhat · 05/07/2015 12:00

I think the advice many of you have given about changing our set-up first before making a decision on the marriage is spot-on.
It breaks my heart that the DC will most likely have to go to school earlier than we had hoped, they really are blossoming so well right now, but I see that it doesn't match with our situation at all.

OP posts:
pastaofplenty · 05/07/2015 12:02

Tinfoilhat - it is entirely up to you whether you leave this marriage or not only you know how you feel, however I would say that your post comes across as being very self-centred, insensitive and entitled.

You slag your husband off but he is the one working in a soul-destroying job whilst you moan that he is disengaged and you are exhaused.

You are happy for him to take the shitty-end of the stick but won't step up yourself and re-think your values and philosophy.

He sounds depressed - and the antidepressants may be one reason for his weight gain, yet you dismiss his mental health concerns as just another thing that affected YOU.

All through the post it is about how you are affected yet you say that your DC adore their father - so I struggle to see what he is doing wrong.

I'm sure he would want a partner who is supporive and sympathetic, but he appears to have someone who looks inwardly and blames the way her own life as turned out on his health issues and failings and the fact that he is older.

I'm sorry if this is harsh but you do seem unale to look beyond your own needs. I'd say you may do both of you and your DH a favour if you split - but I suspect that your dis-satisfaction will remain and you will shift the focus of blame to someone and something else.

tinfoilhat · 05/07/2015 12:23

Ouch Pastaofplenty, yes harsh, but I didn't post on here for everyone to agree with me, I need other points of view, so thank you.

We have talked together many times about how things can be changed so that the pressure is off him, me going to work, DC's at school, him having space to himself - but he is always adamant that our current arrangement is what he wants too. This obviously needs to be spoken about again though.

I believe I have really tried to help. We both knew he wasn't coping with family life, that's why I took on every other responsibility apart from work so that it eased the pressure for him. The one friend he does see, he goes to his place for a couple of weekends a year to have a complete break, my suggestion. I haven't had a night away without the DC at all. I don't believe I'm totally in the wrong.

My original post is one of desperation after nearly 6 years of being patient, understanding, loving, all the things I should have been doing to help him, but nothing has helped, that's why I probably sound rather selfish now.
I feel like being selfish for my DC and me!

OP posts:
tinfoilhat · 05/07/2015 12:26

Meant to add, I agree that I do need to look again at how I'm thinking, I can see how it comes across as entitled etc. and yes, I need to look at the fact that I may be still unhappy even if I leave and consider that it is all mainly my fault.

OP posts:
MiscellaneousAssortment · 05/07/2015 12:30

Your last post is exactly what I mean by 'you can't do the change for two people'. If your husband isn't capable of taking the children for any time, then you changing the dynamic will always be twisted in his favour.

If you start a part time job and he cuts his job to part time, in the case of a man who refuses to do anything else except work, it will just make your life harder. Eg. Currently you do all childcare and all the household stuff, and he does work but nothing else, the split in roles is 2/3 (or 4/6ths) to 1/3 (or 2/6ths).
If you then take on half the work, and he reduces the work but doesn't take on anything else, then you end up with 5/6 and he with 1/6.

Now I could be wrong, and he will start doing more around the house and taking on much more parenting responsibilities... But you'd have to be pretty damn sure that was going to happen, or you'll end up with even more work and all the same problems on top.

Before anyone jumps on me for wing so unfair to the husband in all of this, im open to my mind being changed :)

But really, in cases where a man works but refuses to do anything else, its usually becuase he thinks that that's his role and either pretends that all the other jobs are a lot less time consuming than they really are, or just ignores them as bothjng to do with him. In this situation (in my experience), it's really easy to make lots of promises to do more around the house or with the children, as he believes he'll be able to do everything super quick or with no effort, or just that there isn't much to do. And has no intention of doing the reality of what needs doing...

Btw, if he'd ever been able to look after his children by himself, or if he'd taken on a reasonable amount of household tasks, my response would be very different.

Shnickyshnackers · 05/07/2015 12:31

I think you'd feel a bit better if you could manage to get a job, less time with 100% responsibility for the kids, some money to help you get out if debt or get some repairs done to your house. If you're 'busting at the seams' consider de-cluttering, we live in a flat and honestly you don't need as much stuff as you think you do! If your place feels too small, maybe be ruthless and get rid of some stuff.

You can start to priorities yourself and socialize again, you just have to figure out how you'll do it.

Shnickyshnackers · 05/07/2015 12:35

But if he's never taken both kids out for a couple of hours in the whole three years then maybe you'd be better off trying to separate from him.

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